New DS Filament Render Engine

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  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,724

    he's a bit naughty with that finger kiss

    hahah Yeah. blush Animating that "Come Here" finger and his face movements was a bit time consuming but I think it turned out neat. :) The more I do the animation by hand the faster I get at it, so it's good practice.

  • SadRobotSadRobot Posts: 116

    Awesome! This should be really nice for character creation, too, since the texture shaded view doesn't have enough lighting detail to give you a good idea what your settings are doing, and the iray preview just isn't super responsive. Excited for this to get the bugs worked out and hit production.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,173
    MoreTN said:

    Does this render 3DL textures? And is there a speed improvement over 3DL? Very excited if so, because that would mean I don't have to replace my 8 yr old, low end PC (which I can't afford to do anyways).

    I would suspect not, since Filament, as a PBR engine, is more similar to Iray than it is to 3DL. I'll do some tests, though.

  • SadRobotSadRobot Posts: 116

    Can someone upload an image with a strong backlight? I'm wondering how SSS looks.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513
    edited October 2020

    lights have a slight effect, emitters seem to have none

    we may need new filament shaders

    apparently Filament pbr shaders exist and it's opensource so I guess they could be added and a conversion script (by someone who knows what they are doing)

    also file paths and names don't seem to refresh for new image series 

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • cajhincajhin Posts: 154

    First impressions: MAJOR improvement over GL preview rendering. Much nicer to look at, shows HDRIs and bump maps and more. And with a heavy scene it is very noticeably FASTER too. *happy*

    (For me) not a replacement for iRay renders, but definitely my new go-to when I'm posing or otherwise changing geometry (iRay is just too slow here).

    Compared to iRay, it's way too bright. Reason(?): In the Draw settings, Filament ignores the gamma settings. Compared side to side, Filament and iRay look about similar when gamma is ~4.

    Default gamma is 2.20, which makes iRay much darker, while Filament stay at ~4 regardless of the setting.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Gordig said:
    MoreTN said:

    Does this render 3DL textures? And is there a speed improvement over 3DL? Very excited if so, because that would mean I don't have to replace my 8 yr old, low end PC (which I can't afford to do anyways).

    I would suspect not, since Filament, as a PBR engine, is more similar to Iray than it is to 3DL. I'll do some tests, though.

    Would be most appreciated;)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited October 2020
    3Diva said:
    Ivy said:

    Defiantly a difference between iray and filament render quality.  i wonder if filament baked/render,what ever you want to call it longer if it would clear up the artifacts?  I'm holding off on over writing my copy of the beta I have for now so maybe after i know you guys are not getting any bugs I'll update  my copy.

    @3Diva Nice job on your first animation smiley

    That's smart because I've already discovered a bug - trying to do an Iray render with anything in the scene that has the Oso Blendy shader applied immediately crashes Daz Studio. This is a bug that keeps popping up EVERY SINGLE beta release and it drives me BATTY. If they know that it's an issue, and it's been a problem like the past 3 or 4 releases, why oh why do they still not implement Blendy support with the release? ARGH! :(

    when it comes to daz studio update releases.  I prescribe to fact new is not always better. to me its just new & I have been following Filament developments on Google tech wire I seen where filament is more geared for android . and Daz dev has a way of abandoning things or delaying bug fixes in their apps like the IK-chain for example.  So I was not to horny to jump on a new beta update with filament implemented.  its not something i need. so its not worth the risk of messing up my work flow between my public & beta releases when they are working very nice together now.

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,173
    Gordig said:
    MoreTN said:

    Does this render 3DL textures? And is there a speed improvement over 3DL? Very excited if so, because that would mean I don't have to replace my 8 yr old, low end PC (which I can't afford to do anyways).

    I would suspect not, since Filament, as a PBR engine, is more similar to Iray than it is to 3DL. I'll do some tests, though.

    Would be most appreciated;)

    My limited testing so far indicates that the answer is a resounding "nope".

  • Ivy said:
    3Diva said:
    Ivy said:

    Defiantly a difference between iray and filament render quality.  i wonder if filament baked/render,what ever you want to call it longer if it would clear up the artifacts?  I'm holding off on over writing my copy of the beta I have for now so maybe after i know you guys are not getting any bugs I'll update  my copy.

    @3Diva Nice job on your first animation smiley

    That's smart because I've already discovered a bug - trying to do an Iray render with anything in the scene that has the Oso Blendy shader applied immediately crashes Daz Studio. This is a bug that keeps popping up EVERY SINGLE beta release and it drives me BATTY. If they know that it's an issue, and it's been a problem like the past 3 or 4 releases, why oh why do they still not implement Blendy support with the release? ARGH! :(

    when it comes to daz studio update releases.  I prescribe to fact new is not always better. to me its just new & I have been following Filament developments on Google tech wire I seen where filament is more geared for android . and Daz dev has a way of abandoning things or delaying bug fixes in their apps like the IK-chain for example.  So I was not to horny to jump on a new beta update with filament implemented.  its not something i need. so its not worth the risk of messing up my work flow between my public & beta releases when they are working very nice together now.

    It does have a fix for the lost keys when saving keys.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513
    edited October 2020

    I lost my environment settings using a 3Delight scene

    I also had to run the iray shader script by Riversoft to get my materials working 

    so 3Delight not useable as is

    got my environment parameters back loading an iray lighting preset

    on the definite positive side I can render those AP forest superior scenes animated  finally

    and Sven you don't need a graphics card this PC I am using has integrated onboard intel graphics only so don't need to resort to 3Delight

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,173

    Also on the list of "I wasn't expecting it to work, but really hoped it would", Filament doesn't let you preview Ultrascenery scenes, either.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513

    or ultrascatter premade like Harpwood with proxies

    it would likely without if I roll my own

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165

    yes you are right after about 6 new beta releases later they did get it fixed. and by that time the bugs get fixed there has been new bugs with deforce, iray, etc that have arise. So that is why i hold off a few weeks or more before updating my studios apps to see what the fall out is going to be and f it going to effect my usage. nothing personal. I just learned from past experiences.  my system is getting pretty dated so that the reason i been following the change logs so closely because i know a day soon a new daz or Iray up date  maybe be the last one my system can use before becoming brick or boat anchor & having to invest in a new $5000 plus computer which i can not afford at this time.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513
    Ivy said:

    yes you are right after about 6 new beta releases later they did get it fixed. and by that time the bugs get fixed there has been new bugs with deforce, iray, etc that have arise. So that is why i hold off a few weeks or more before updating my studios apps to see what the fall out is going to be and f it going to effect my usage. nothing personal. I just learned from past experiences.  my system is getting pretty dated so that the reason i been following the change logs so closely because i know a day soon a new daz or Iray up date  maybe be the last one my system can use before becoming brick or boat anchor & having to invest in a new $5000 plus computer which i can not afford at this time.

    I am using Filament at the moment on my old Win7 PC just so you know

    the PC I struggle to use iray on

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165

    Thanks for the information Wendy,

  • cajhincajhin Posts: 154

    second impressions: there's a lot of iRay settings that Filament ignores. The big ones (for me) are

    - Translucency. Most iray skins use heavy translucency, which makes the skin darker and redder. IRay Translucency to 0 looks similar in both renderers - much too white.

    - Scene lights. F seems to ignore scene lights. When there's no HDRI dome it seems to fall back to a default HDRI.

    - Cutout opacity is funky; this results in hair getting semi transparent depending on cam angle

    Still, I'm happy to have a very fast, decent looking renderer that handles HDRI lighting and backgrounds.

     

     

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Gordig said:
    Gordig said:
    MoreTN said:

    Does this render 3DL textures? And is there a speed improvement over 3DL? Very excited if so, because that would mean I don't have to replace my 8 yr old, low end PC (which I can't afford to do anyways).

    I would suspect not, since Filament, as a PBR engine, is more similar to Iray than it is to 3DL. I'll do some tests, though.

    Would be most appreciated;)

    My limited testing so far indicates that the answer is a resounding "nope".

    Tks! Too bad:(

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,173
    cajhin said:

    - Scene lights. F seems to ignore scene lights. When there's no HDRI dome it seems to fall back to a default HDRI.

    Filament doesn't ignore scene lights at all. They react to tone mapping, you can increase the scene light scale in the draw settings, and they show up if you crank the luminance settings on them, but if you've done either of the first two, there's no need for the latter.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513
    edited October 2020

    I have had issues where I change something in iray environment and I cannot undo whatever happened 

    AP Nature lake and forest was rendering beautifully after deleting the sky meshes with a Mec4D HDRi then I changed it to a Texture Haven one and it was all white and I couldn't go back

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • MelanieLMelanieL Posts: 7,464
    Ivy said:

    yes you are right after about 6 new beta releases later they did get it fixed. and by that time the bugs get fixed there has been new bugs with deforce, iray, etc that have arise. So that is why i hold off a few weeks or more before updating my studios apps to see what the fall out is going to be and f it going to effect my usage. nothing personal. I just learned from past experiences.  my system is getting pretty dated so that the reason i been following the change logs so closely because i know a day soon a new daz or Iray up date  maybe be the last one my system can use before becoming brick or boat anchor & having to invest in a new $5000 plus computer which i can not afford at this time.

    I am using Filament at the moment on my old Win7 PC just so you know

    the PC I struggle to use iray on

    Does Filament use the GPU or can you do it with CPU-only?

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513
    MelanieL said:
    Ivy said:

    yes you are right after about 6 new beta releases later they did get it fixed. and by that time the bugs get fixed there has been new bugs with deforce, iray, etc that have arise. So that is why i hold off a few weeks or more before updating my studios apps to see what the fall out is going to be and f it going to effect my usage. nothing personal. I just learned from past experiences.  my system is getting pretty dated so that the reason i been following the change logs so closely because i know a day soon a new daz or Iray up date  maybe be the last one my system can use before becoming brick or boat anchor & having to invest in a new $5000 plus computer which i can not afford at this time.

    I am using Filament at the moment on my old Win7 PC just so you know

    the PC I struggle to use iray on

    Does Filament use the GPU or can you do it with CPU-only?

    uses both on my Win7 (GPU-Z shows it using 90% of the onboard graphics) and all my 16GB of RAM

    my newish Win 10 with the 980ti it barely uses any GPU just CPU and more than half of the 32GB of RAM I have there

    that computer otherwise is not as powerful CPU wise as my older one so it actually works better on the Win7 without a card

  • MelanieLMelanieL Posts: 7,464

    Thanks for the info, Wendy!

  • GalaxyGalaxy Posts: 562

    HDRIs are washed out and slow however sufficient enough to build a scene with new viewport. I hope it may improve in future. Overall I am happy with the instant render quality.

    I will give 91 out of 100 for new viewport quality.

  • varnavarna Posts: 7

    Very excited about this new development, but I don't seem to have the option to actually enable the Filament viewport... what I do have is an entry in the menu to create the "Filament Draw Options" and I can play around with the settings, so I assume I'm on the correct build here.

    Please tell me this is not a Windows-only feature?

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513

    video

    transmapped foliage gives a lot of artifacts

     

    and how do I make Dforce strandhair thicker?

    can the not Dforce editable ones and they render

  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,460

    I haven't installed the Beta, but I'm very interested in this development.

    If it's PBR then Substance Painter should do a fine job with it  ;)

     

    Incidentally, here's the official "Materials Guide" for Filament
    https://google.github.io/filament/Materials.html ;

  • cajhincajhin Posts: 154
    edited October 2020

    ok, the answer is always 42/miata/more pictures.
    Just a quick test scene with a new environment.
    Small render from the aux viewport for comparison.


    Top left: iRay photoreal, 1-2 frames per second (in my 1400x1400 viewport)
    Top right: Filament, constant 60 fps
    Bottom left: Texture shaded, 10fps when the waterfall is visible, 60 otherwise
    Bottom right: Filament unfixed (Haircap, waterfall)
    Your choice.

    Note that the skin (anything with translucency and transparency?) is quite off,
    but surfaces like cloth show the preview colors quite well.

    Fixes for texture shaded:
    can't do HDRI so I had to add two lights to approximate it.

    Fixes for Filament:
    Hair cap surface, Cutout opacity = 0, to make it invisible. This changes iRay renders only some closeups where the cap would show through.
    Waterfall, Refraction weight from 1 to 0.9 to make it more visible. Out of the box only Reflections and Subsurface scattering is visible, and Filement didn't show SSS.

    @Gordig: thanks, yes it shows scene lights - sometimes, there's something unusual going on.

     

    cove_all.jpg
    944 x 748 - 887K
    Post edited by cajhin on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513
    edited October 2020

    sadly I crashed D|S trying to render the furred cat in a new window

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • varna said:

    Very excited about this new development, but I don't seem to have the option to actually enable the Filament viewport... what I do have is an entry in the menu to create the "Filament Draw Options" and I can play around with the settings, so I assume I'm on the correct build here.

    Please tell me this is not a Windows-only feature?

    For now it's a 64 bit WIndows feature, macs and 32 bit Windows are not able to use it and fall back to Texture Sahded. See http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#4_12_2_50

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