New DS Filament Render Engine

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  • 3Diva said:
    3Diva said:

    mmm minimising it gets a line, full screen it doesn't so your viewport needs to match your render size by looks, interesting 

    Oh my goodness, I think you've solved it! Full Screen Mode rendered it without any lines!

    So it appears that as long as your Viewport Window is larger than (or around the same size as) your Render Size, there are no lines?

    @3diva please forgive this question as it's probably something super simple that I'm completely overlooking or not realizing, but how did you  get to full screen mode on your viewport to animate this in a pixel size bigger than 977x784, or is this the default setting for you as well and you ran with it? That's the only size I can get my active viewport to set at and when I render that out the line is gone, but when I try to make it like 1920x1080 I get that line. This looks like it could be a gamechanger for many folks as I love the image I'm looking at that I created, but I would love to render it at a bigger resolution if possible right now, or hopefully in a future update. Thank you! 

    You have to set the render size to roughly the same size as your viewport size or less, I believe. I THINK it might depend on how big of a screen you have, but I'm not sure. I got a fairly large monitor for my birthday (display resolution 2560x1440) so I was able to get a fairly large preview size by rendering after going to Full-Screen Mode (Shift + F11). You might have to set the render option to a keyboard short cut so that once you go to full-screen mode you can just use the Render shortcut.

    I would check to see what size your screen is and set the render size to around the same size or smaller than that.

    This should be a temporary requirement, I think - see http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#4_12_2_53

    Filament (PBR) renders (via Render Settings > Engine: 'Viewport' when the active viewport DrawStyle is set to 'Filament (PBR)') no longer attempts to tile using the active viewport size

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,293
    edited October 2020
    Sevrin said:

    Not to be too greedy but I'd love it if that (openGL based I guess) texture shaded mode in the viewport was expaned to be a renderer was made to do the opacities and SBH well enough to produuce a nice claymation sort of final render. I've tried the openGL Advanced selection hoping for a similar look at what I see in the texture shaded viewport but more refined in the the renderer drop-down menu but everytime I've tried to use it DAZ Studio locks up & I have to abort it.

    Have you put in a feature request?

    Not for that particular item but I guess I will. I should check to see if the Advanced OpenGL renderer works now as well.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,169

    @AllenArt

    Laurie, if you're getting grain in your saved render, you might want to switch your render output to JPG instead of PNG. Then just save a png for your background cutout. I found there was a couple of scenes that looked fine in viewport, but saved with grain in the PNG version, not sure why. This fixed it for me.

    It's actually super grainy in the viewport. I'll show ya in a few. I have a couple things I need to do first, but I'll post a pic ;). I'm sure it's all user error since this is new and I am totally clueless. LOL

    Laurie

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,309
    edited October 2020

    One area that will need clarification is how to handle skin.  This is Aria set against one of Dreamlight's Beach Scenes rendered with Iray and with Filament at the same exposure setting.  The background is decently saturated, infact overly so but doesn't require much in the way of adjustment.  The dress is washed out, but doesn't look to bad.  The skin, I don't know what to do with.  Or the hair, for that matter.

    Iray

    Filament

     

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    Post edited by Sevrin on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513

    Sevrin I suspect a shader preset is needed

    I am still not finding a way to get ambient glow for flames to use with my lights

    I found glass varied a lot by shader too

    ...and my M3 and V3 skins actually looked half decent just with Poser materials in this test https://www.facebook.com/wendy5/videos/10222142032973824

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,309

    Sevrin I suspect a shader preset is needed

    I am still not finding a way to get ambient glow for flames to use with my lights

    I found glass varied a lot by shader too

    ...and my M3 and V3 skins actually looked half decent just with Poser materials in this test https://www.facebook.com/wendy5/videos/10222142032973824

    A set of shaders would help.  Something like Skin Builder, Alter8 or Anagenesis for Filament would be nice.  I suspect that something like that is in the works, based on KA's and Rawb's comments.  And yeah, the skin tones in your video are a good enough for a lot of purposes.  I don't see a whole lot of PAs adding Filament materials to their character offerings, though, when most no longer even support 3DL which a lot of people still use.

    I get that Filament is not for every render, or even for every user.  I'm lucky to  have an RTX card, so Iray works well, and I don't see myself committing to Filament, apart from the occasional experiments.  

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,169

    Ok, here is my crappy Filament viewport with an Iray render. Of course I have no idea about any of it...lol. It looks like crap and I'm clueless as how to fix it because I have nothing to go on. Also, the figure's eyebrows are not showing up with Filament. Is that normal?

    Laurie

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  • KindredArtsKindredArts Posts: 1,265
    AllenArt said:

    Ok, here is my crappy Filament viewport with an Iray render. Of course I have no idea about any of it...lol. It looks like crap and I'm clueless as how to fix it because I have nothing to go on. Also, the figure's eyebrows are not showing up with Filament. Is that normal?

    Laurie

    The noise on the skin is the normal map i think.Go into your characters skin surface settings and turn the normal strength down to something like 0.1.

    Turn bump down too, if you're still getting noise. I still think its your normals though.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    AllenArt said:

    Ok, here is my crappy Filament viewport with an Iray render. Of course I have no idea about any of it...lol. It looks like crap and I'm clueless as how to fix it because I have nothing to go on. Also, the figure's eyebrows are not showing up with Filament. Is that normal?

    Laurie

    Odd that Filament does not render the shadows from the hair on the neck. 

  • Not to be too greedy but I'd love it if that (openGL based I guess) texture shaded mode in the viewport was expaned to be a renderer was made to do the opacities and SBH well enough to produuce a nice claymation sort of final render. I've tried the openGL Advanced selection hoping for a similar look at what I see in the texture shaded viewport but more refined in the the renderer drop-down menu but everytime I've tried to use it DAZ Studio locks up & I have to abort it.

    If you choose Viewport as the Render Engine you will get whatever is active in the Viewport, with the same settings (except for Iray) though without non-rendering elements (such Gizmos and the mouse pointer). You can get strand-based hair to show using the settings for Tessellation and Preview Hairs

  • Not to be too greedy but I'd love it if that (openGL based I guess) texture shaded mode in the viewport was expaned to be a renderer was made to do the opacities and SBH well enough to produuce a nice claymation sort of final render. I've tried the openGL Advanced selection hoping for a similar look at what I see in the texture shaded viewport but more refined in the the renderer drop-down menu but everytime I've tried to use it DAZ Studio locks up & I have to abort it.

    If you choose Viewport as the Render Engine you will get whatever is active in the Viewport, with the same settings (except for Iray) though without non-rendering elements (such Gizmos and the mouse pointer). You can get strand-based hair to show using the settings for Tessellation and Preview Hairs

    Hi Richard, I'm looking throughout the draw settings and the settings in the render tab and I'm not seeing where tessellation and preview hairs is. Where would I look? I appreciate any help you can give! 

  • Not to be too greedy but I'd love it if that (openGL based I guess) texture shaded mode in the viewport was expaned to be a renderer was made to do the opacities and SBH well enough to produuce a nice claymation sort of final render. I've tried the openGL Advanced selection hoping for a similar look at what I see in the texture shaded viewport but more refined in the the renderer drop-down menu but everytime I've tried to use it DAZ Studio locks up & I have to abort it.

    If you choose Viewport as the Render Engine you will get whatever is active in the Viewport, with the same settings (except for Iray) though without non-rendering elements (such Gizmos and the mouse pointer). You can get strand-based hair to show using the settings for Tessellation and Preview Hairs

    Richard, I am interested in what you mention here about choosing Viewport as the Render Engine.  However, in render settings, I do not have Viewport as an option for Render Engine (only Basic OpenGL, Intermediate OpenGL, NVIDIA Iray, 3Delight, and Scripted 3Delight).  Is Viewport something only found in the Beta or am I looking in the wrong place?

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,724
    3Diva said:
    3Diva said:

    mmm minimising it gets a line, full screen it doesn't so your viewport needs to match your render size by looks, interesting 

    Oh my goodness, I think you've solved it! Full Screen Mode rendered it without any lines!

    So it appears that as long as your Viewport Window is larger than (or around the same size as) your Render Size, there are no lines?

    @3diva please forgive this question as it's probably something super simple that I'm completely overlooking or not realizing, but how did you  get to full screen mode on your viewport to animate this in a pixel size bigger than 977x784, or is this the default setting for you as well and you ran with it? That's the only size I can get my active viewport to set at and when I render that out the line is gone, but when I try to make it like 1920x1080 I get that line. This looks like it could be a gamechanger for many folks as I love the image I'm looking at that I created, but I would love to render it at a bigger resolution if possible right now, or hopefully in a future update. Thank you! 

    You have to set the render size to roughly the same size as your viewport size or less, I believe. I THINK it might depend on how big of a screen you have, but I'm not sure. I got a fairly large monitor for my birthday (display resolution 2560x1440) so I was able to get a fairly large preview size by rendering after going to Full-Screen Mode (Shift + F11). You might have to set the render option to a keyboard short cut so that once you go to full-screen mode you can just use the Render shortcut.

    I would check to see what size your screen is and set the render size to around the same size or smaller than that.

    This should be a temporary requirement, I think - see http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#4_12_2_53

    Filament (PBR) renders (via Render Settings > Engine: 'Viewport' when the active viewport DrawStyle is set to 'Filament (PBR)') no longer attempts to tile using the active viewport size

    That's really good news! Thank you, Richard! :)

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513

    Not to be too greedy but I'd love it if that (openGL based I guess) texture shaded mode in the viewport was expaned to be a renderer was made to do the opacities and SBH well enough to produuce a nice claymation sort of final render. I've tried the openGL Advanced selection hoping for a similar look at what I see in the texture shaded viewport but more refined in the the renderer drop-down menu but everytime I've tried to use it DAZ Studio locks up & I have to abort it.

    If you choose Viewport as the Render Engine you will get whatever is active in the Viewport, with the same settings (except for Iray) though without non-rendering elements (such Gizmos and the mouse pointer). You can get strand-based hair to show using the settings for Tessellation and Preview Hairs

    Richard, I am interested in what you mention here about choosing Viewport as the Render Engine.  However, in render settings, I do not have Viewport as an option for Render Engine (only Basic OpenGL, Intermediate OpenGL, NVIDIA Iray, 3Delight, and Scripted 3Delight).  Is Viewport something only found in the Beta or am I looking in the wrong place?

    yes beta

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,724

    Not to be too greedy but I'd love it if that (openGL based I guess) texture shaded mode in the viewport was expaned to be a renderer was made to do the opacities and SBH well enough to produuce a nice claymation sort of final render. I've tried the openGL Advanced selection hoping for a similar look at what I see in the texture shaded viewport but more refined in the the renderer drop-down menu but everytime I've tried to use it DAZ Studio locks up & I have to abort it.

    If you choose Viewport as the Render Engine you will get whatever is active in the Viewport, with the same settings (except for Iray) though without non-rendering elements (such Gizmos and the mouse pointer). You can get strand-based hair to show using the settings for Tessellation and Preview Hairs

    Hi Richard, I'm looking throughout the draw settings and the settings in the render tab and I'm not seeing where tessellation and preview hairs is. Where would I look? I appreciate any help you can give! 

    You'll have to make sure the hair is selected in the scene tab - It will be Under the cap in the scene tab, expand the cap (little arrow next to it in the scene tab). Once the hair is visible in the scene tab select it then go to the Parameter's Tab. You should then see (under "General") the "Line Tessellation". You can change the "Viewport Line Tessellation Sides" to 1 or 3.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,724
    edited October 2020

    Not to be too greedy but I'd love it if that (openGL based I guess) texture shaded mode in the viewport was expaned to be a renderer was made to do the opacities and SBH well enough to produuce a nice claymation sort of final render. I've tried the openGL Advanced selection hoping for a similar look at what I see in the texture shaded viewport but more refined in the the renderer drop-down menu but everytime I've tried to use it DAZ Studio locks up & I have to abort it.

    If you choose Viewport as the Render Engine you will get whatever is active in the Viewport, with the same settings (except for Iray) though without non-rendering elements (such Gizmos and the mouse pointer). You can get strand-based hair to show using the settings for Tessellation and Preview Hairs

    Richard, I am interested in what you mention here about choosing Viewport as the Render Engine.  However, in render settings, I do not have Viewport as an option for Render Engine (only Basic OpenGL, Intermediate OpenGL, NVIDIA Iray, 3Delight, and Scripted 3Delight).  Is Viewport something only found in the Beta or am I looking in the wrong place?

    I believe it's just in new the Beta at the moment, yes.

    There's a "Viewport" option under Engine in the beta:

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    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • Not to be too greedy but I'd love it if that (openGL based I guess) texture shaded mode in the viewport was expaned to be a renderer was made to do the opacities and SBH well enough to produuce a nice claymation sort of final render. I've tried the openGL Advanced selection hoping for a similar look at what I see in the texture shaded viewport but more refined in the the renderer drop-down menu but everytime I've tried to use it DAZ Studio locks up & I have to abort it.

    If you choose Viewport as the Render Engine you will get whatever is active in the Viewport, with the same settings (except for Iray) though without non-rendering elements (such Gizmos and the mouse pointer). You can get strand-based hair to show using the settings for Tessellation and Preview Hairs

    Hi Richard, I'm looking throughout the draw settings and the settings in the render tab and I'm not seeing where tessellation and preview hairs is. Where would I look? I appreciate any help you can give! 

    They are properties of the hair, not of the draw style.

  • Not to be too greedy but I'd love it if that (openGL based I guess) texture shaded mode in the viewport was expaned to be a renderer was made to do the opacities and SBH well enough to produuce a nice claymation sort of final render. I've tried the openGL Advanced selection hoping for a similar look at what I see in the texture shaded viewport but more refined in the the renderer drop-down menu but everytime I've tried to use it DAZ Studio locks up & I have to abort it.

    If you choose Viewport as the Render Engine you will get whatever is active in the Viewport, with the same settings (except for Iray) though without non-rendering elements (such Gizmos and the mouse pointer). You can get strand-based hair to show using the settings for Tessellation and Preview Hairs

    Richard, I am interested in what you mention here about choosing Viewport as the Render Engine.  However, in render settings, I do not have Viewport as an option for Render Engine (only Basic OpenGL, Intermediate OpenGL, NVIDIA Iray, 3Delight, and Scripted 3Delight).  Is Viewport something only found in the Beta or am I looking in the wrong place?

    Yes, Filament and the supporting chnages are in the Beta only at this time.

  • khorneV2khorneV2 Posts: 147

    a test

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  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,724
    khorneV2 said:

    a test

    Nice! I suggest decreasing the bump on her face - that SHOULD clear up some of the "noise" there, I think. :) Looking good!

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,724
    edited October 2020

    Sevrin I suspect a shader preset is needed

    I am still not finding a way to get ambient glow for flames to use with my lights

    I found glass varied a lot by shader too

    ...and my M3 and V3 skins actually looked half decent just with Poser materials in this test https://www.facebook.com/wendy5/videos/10222142032973824

    Cool animation! :)

    For the flame you could try duplicating the flame geometry, adding a push modifier to it or just scale it up (you'll want it in front of the regular flame), add an Orange or Yellow Color to the base color and reduce the Cutout opacity.

    That's what I did here:

     

    Before:

     

    After (duplicate flame scaled up and rotated a bit, cutout at 40%, and yellowish-orange color added to Base Color):

     

    It's not perfect but I think it helps add a glow-ish like effect. :)

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    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • 3Diva said:
    You'll have to make sure the hair is selected in the scene tab - It will be Under the cap in the scene tab, expand the cap (little arrow next to it in the scene tab). Once the hair is visible in the scene tab select it then go to the Parameter's Tab. You should then see (under "General") the "Line Tessellation". You can change the "Viewport Line Tessellation Sides" to 1 or 3.

    Thank you so much @3diva :) 

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,724
    3Diva said:
    You'll have to make sure the hair is selected in the scene tab - It will be Under the cap in the scene tab, expand the cap (little arrow next to it in the scene tab). Once the hair is visible in the scene tab select it then go to the Parameter's Tab. You should then see (under "General") the "Line Tessellation". You can change the "Viewport Line Tessellation Sides" to 1 or 3.

    Thank you so much @3diva :) 

    You're welcome. :) (I know Richard is crazy busy with mod work so I thought I'd answer the question - hopefully, I didn't step on anyone's toes.)

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513
    edited October 2020

    I made a morphing geometry flame in Zbrush for my next animation that is taking longer to render than I would like

    sadly it looks like the Blob from Outer Space cheeky

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  • You may want to check the Filament docs, which include a description of the surface options. I don't see a built-in way to add glows https://google.github.io/filament/Materials.html#materialmodels/litmodel/emissive

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513

    You may want to check the Filament docs, which include a description of the surface options. I don't see a built-in way to add glows https://google.github.io/filament/Materials.html#materialmodels/litmodel/emissive

    I see it does have an emissive surface though, just iray emissive does not appear to affect it

  • KindredArtsKindredArts Posts: 1,265

    You may want to check the Filament docs, which include a description of the surface options. I don't see a built-in way to add glows https://google.github.io/filament/Materials.html#materialmodels/litmodel/emissive

    I see it does have an emissive surface though, just iray emissive does not appear to affect it

    No emissive or unlit materials as yet, but there is the ability to do this, it just needs to be ported by the programming guys. I've voiced extreme interest in this happening, because some of the promo shots i did for release included hundreds of point lights that probably wouldn't have been necessary if we had unlit textures. They know it needs to happen, and i'll keep whinging until it happens, so hopefully it shouldn't be long laugh

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,513

    You may want to check the Filament docs, which include a description of the surface options. I don't see a built-in way to add glows https://google.github.io/filament/Materials.html#materialmodels/litmodel/emissive

    I see it does have an emissive surface though, just iray emissive does not appear to affect it

    No emissive or unlit materials as yet, but there is the ability to do this, it just needs to be ported by the programming guys. I've voiced extreme interest in this happening, because some of the promo shots i did for release included hundreds of point lights that probably wouldn't have been necessary if we had unlit textures. They know it needs to happen, and i'll keep whinging until it happens, so hopefully it shouldn't be long laugh

    yes

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,169

    Ah, so it was the normals that were making the skin look bad ;). At any rate, I don't see it replacing Iray any time soon :). Good exercise tho :D

    Laurie

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  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,309
    AllenArt said:

    Ah, so it was the normals that were making the skin look bad ;). At any rate, I don't see it replacing Iray any time soon :). Good exercise tho :D

    Laurie

    That's a big improvement.  

    I have a feeling that Filament will be its own thing, rather than an Iray companion.  Filament renders have a pretty distinctive look that works well for comics and animations, where volume and speed of renders are a priority.  For stand-alone character renders, I don't see it replacing Iray.

    @KindredArts Good news about emissives.  For the sci-fi type renders Filament favours, they're a big deal, as well as for people who want to convert from Iray, generally.

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