New DS Filament Render Engine

WendyLuvsCatz

3Diva said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

3Diva said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

great news Sickleyield hope it hits the store soon

unfortunately my -1Y scaled instance cheat for openGL floor shadows doesn't work in filament as they are still textured

 

That's brilliant, Wendy!

I used your "Shadow Instance" technique here in this Filament animation:

https://player.vimeo.com/video/469408305

That was 472 frames and rendered in 21 minutes! That would have take HOURS for my computer to render in Iray.

While the instance "shadow" isn't exactly true to the lighting it's MUCH better than before with no shadow and helps a lot to "ground" the character with the environment. Thank you so much for sharing your technique!

how did you do that in Filament though?

my video is using the openGL engine, I made it before we had Filament

in Filament my instances are textured even negative scaled

I added Omnifreaker's UberSurface and then turned the Glossiness down to 7% - that helped to make the "shadow" darker and less intense and less colorful. 

I also added a primitive plane for the ground, used a black and white gradient to "fade it out" in the back and dropped the Shadow Instance just below the plane so that it was less stark.

SickleYield

Oh wow, that's really cool!! I definitely will be using this on my spiderfolk and other critters with more complicated shadows than my own product can handle!  Thank you so much for sharing this!!!!

N-RArts

It's probably already been asked, but can it be used with a CPU? Or is it GPU, like Iray?

WendyLuvsCatz

N_R Arts said:

It's probably already been asked, but can it be used with a CPU? Or is it GPU, like Iray?

yes

I said in one of my many rambles here I am using it on my PC without a graphics card

just motherboard graphics 

and it is excellent 

Sevrin

3Diva said:

SickleYield said:

3Diva said:

@SickleYeild That looks great! :D Shadows would be a really big help. I can't wait!

I was working on some skin shaders for Filament too, but since you're doing some already, I might skip it then. :)

Honestly I'd give it a month or so and then do it anyway.  There were many skin shader updater/solutions for Iray and as near as I can tell all of them were successful (Fuseling's and my BSI, JM HumanShader, IDG Essentials, EcVh0's Iray Skin sets, Anagenesis, etc.).  Every artist has a different "take" on this concept, with something different to offer, and yours is definitely as valid.

Yeah, that's true - there are a lot of different skin shader options for Iray, (and I think a few different shaders for 3Delight). It does make sense that Filament shouldn't be treated any differently. And having a variety of different options can be good. I'll probably do that then, wait a month or two and then submit mine (if I can manage to get the look of the shaders just how I want lol).

Thank you, SickleYield, for the encouragement. You're such a sweetheart! 

For Filament to really take off, there will need to be options.  I like Altern8 for its user-friendliness, and think there will be room for Filam8. :)

WendyLuvsCatz

oh glow, Poser format prop material settings seem to work better with ambient and specular, I must save some as duf and investigate in that mess of nodes and bricks called shaderbuilder

3Diva

Sevrin said:

3Diva said:

SickleYield said:

3Diva said:

@SickleYeild That looks great! :D Shadows would be a really big help. I can't wait!

I was working on some skin shaders for Filament too, but since you're doing some already, I might skip it then. :)

Honestly I'd give it a month or so and then do it anyway.  There were many skin shader updater/solutions for Iray and as near as I can tell all of them were successful (Fuseling's and my BSI, JM HumanShader, IDG Essentials, EcVh0's Iray Skin sets, Anagenesis, etc.).  Every artist has a different "take" on this concept, with something different to offer, and yours is definitely as valid.

Yeah, that's true - there are a lot of different skin shader options for Iray, (and I think a few different shaders for 3Delight). It does make sense that Filament shouldn't be treated any differently. And having a variety of different options can be good. I'll probably do that then, wait a month or two and then submit mine (if I can manage to get the look of the shaders just how I want lol).

Thank you, SickleYield, for the encouragement. You're such a sweetheart! 

For Filament to really take off, there will need to be options.  I like Altern8 for its user-friendliness, and think there will be room for Filam8. :)

Sevrin - get out of my head, you! lol I was tentatively calling my Filament shaders Filam8! lol 

WendyLuvsCatz

maybe just call it all Filacart 

Richard Haseltine

SickleYield said:

I have some additional tips. 

Filament doesn't really do cast shadows, it does a sort of raytraced deep blurry thing around objects.  In KA's renders you can see he's dealt with this by having the floor areas largely unlit.  One excellent way to cope with this lack on Filament's part is to start from a palette of total darkness and, as he has also done, add just enough light that it dissipates some of the darkness but leaves the floor and some other areas dark enough to not make this lack apparent.  KA is a genius at lighting, and we should all learn from his example.

I also have a product in testing for faking cast shadows by literally throwing a rigged shadow on the ground (shown)!  This one is dForce rigged.

Filament does do shadows, but it is limited in the number and type of light it can handle (and sometimes seems to behave oddly - I have a test scene in which I cannot get one of three spots with a shape to work).

marble

Richard Haseltine said:

SickleYield said:

 

I have some additional tips. 

Filament doesn't really do cast shadows, it does a sort of raytraced deep blurry thing around objects.  In KA's renders you can see he's dealt with this by having the floor areas largely unlit.  One excellent way to cope with this lack on Filament's part is to start from a palette of total darkness and, as he has also done, add just enough light that it dissipates some of the darkness but leaves the floor and some other areas dark enough to not make this lack apparent.  KA is a genius at lighting, and we should all learn from his example.

I also have a product in testing for faking cast shadows by literally throwing a rigged shadow on the ground (shown)!  This one is dForce rigged.

Filament does do shadows, but it is limited in the number and type of light it can handle (and sometimes seems to behave oddly - I have a test scene in which I cannot get one of three spots with a shape to work).

Maybe another opportunity for the Lighting specialist PAs here? A set of Filament lights with shadow capability.

memcneil70

Other than having Daz Studio crash hard with Filament open, when I was loading a character, then working just fine after rebooting and reopening, I have been exploring today as I read all 8 pages of the thread to date. Thank you everyone for your comments. 

My thoughts, it is a tool in our tool box to be selected when needed. Just depends on what project one is working on.

Shaders, I buy any and all, even if I have 20 silk shaders, or 15 metal shaders, I never know just what I might need in the future. As for skin, I have a slew. And I would buy skin shaders for filament renders. 

Thank you all.

 

Sevrin

marble said:

Richard Haseltine said:

SickleYield said:

 

I have some additional tips. 

Filament doesn't really do cast shadows, it does a sort of raytraced deep blurry thing around objects.  In KA's renders you can see he's dealt with this by having the floor areas largely unlit.  One excellent way to cope with this lack on Filament's part is to start from a palette of total darkness and, as he has also done, add just enough light that it dissipates some of the darkness but leaves the floor and some other areas dark enough to not make this lack apparent.  KA is a genius at lighting, and we should all learn from his example.

I also have a product in testing for faking cast shadows by literally throwing a rigged shadow on the ground (shown)!  This one is dForce rigged.

Filament does do shadows, but it is limited in the number and type of light it can handle (and sometimes seems to behave oddly - I have a test scene in which I cannot get one of three spots with a shape to work).

Maybe another opportunity for the Lighting specialist PAs here? A set of Filament lights with shadow capability.

That's a great idea.  If nothing else, Filament will provide some challenges for PAs to sink their teeth into until G9.  Given how weird transparencies work, there's help need with those, as well.  Also with reflective surfaces.

Robinson

Wait.. what?  How do I get the filament preview?

Sevrin

Robinson said:

Wait.. what?  How do I get the filament preview?

Same place as all the other previews.

zombietaggerung

Robinson said:

Wait.. what?  How do I get the filament preview?

You have to download the most current beta version which is only available through DIM.

WendyLuvsCatz

another video

3Diva

WendyLuvsCatz said:

another video

Neat! I like the compilation of different scenes and genres. 

I think you could work on the speed though. The magic guy with the wings went on far too long and was extremely slow motion, whereas the movements and speed of the guy in the Pirate Cabin at the very end wearing the Giuro Vendetta outfit was going at superspeed. 

WendyLuvsCatz

3Diva said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

another video

Neat! I like the compilation of different scenes and genres. 

I think you could work on the speed though. The magic guy with the wings went on far too long and was extremely slow motion, whereas the movements and speed of the guy in the Pirate Cabin at the very end wearing the Giuro Vendetta outfit was going at superspeed. 

yeah I overcompensated after the too fast one 

 

a comparison

Sevrin

WendyLuvsCatz said:

3Diva said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

another video

Neat! I like the compilation of different scenes and genres. 

I think you could work on the speed though. The magic guy with the wings went on far too long and was extremely slow motion, whereas the movements and speed of the guy in the Pirate Cabin at the very end wearing the Giuro Vendetta outfit was going at superspeed. 

yeah I overcompensated after the too fast one 

 

a comparison

That's pretty cool.  Filament renders won't be confused with Iray, but if you buy into the style, it'll be an extremely viable alternative.  That wizard's transparent wings looked pretty cool.

Paintbox

lovely work on display! Great to see more options coming to Daz Studio!

Will there be a fast global illumination implemented? Like you see in games?

nonesuch00

I'm still working on Filament render to get them working again. DS keeps crash dumping.

Problem solved. I had turned on and now turned back off the pixel buffers. Maybe whn I have a video card with over 100 GB of RAM I can turn on pixel buffers.

nonesuch00

Well, I just got the new 4.12.2.54 PB Monday at midnight and I hope it fixes all the Filament crashes I've been getting. I'm trying to load a scene now and it's still slower than molasses.

Problem solved. I had turned on and now turned back off the pixel buffers. Maybe whn I have a video card with over 100 GB of RAM I can turn on pixel buffers.

Robinson

 Thumbs up from me.  This is really cool.  Not too sure about hair opacity though... but whatever, it's a huge improvement over Texture Shaded.

billyben_0077a25354

zombietaggerung said:

Robinson said:

Wait.. what?  How do I get the filament preview?

You have to download the most current beta version which is only available through DIM.

I can't seem to be able to set DIM to even find the beta, much less download it.

 

skinklizzard

if we could get the option to switch a material from default to twopasssinglesided or twopasstwosided as per the filament specs that would solve the issues with transparency.

while tinkering with this image I also discovered that refration weight is not mappable or at least it ignores the iray map.
anyway Hagar with the Bardot outfit and dForce soft curls hair.

the shadows cast by the hair on the face are a bit iffy might need to change the light settings

Sevrin

billyben_0077a25354 said:

zombietaggerung said:

Robinson said:

Wait.. what?  How do I get the filament preview?

You have to download the most current beta version which is only available through DIM.

I can't seem to be able to set DIM to even find the beta, much less download it.

 

You need to "buy" the beta in order for it to show up in DIM.

https://www.daz3d.com/daz-studio-beta

nonesuch00

nonesuch00 said:

Well, I just got the new 4.12.2.54 PB Monday at midnight and I hope it fixes all the Filament crashes I've been getting. I'm trying to load a scene now and it's still slower than molasses.

The problem was I had upped the 'Interface' quality in Preferences were all to the 'best' but even with 32GB RAM that was too much somehow so I won't try that again until I have 64GB system RAM. And I'll forghet about using any sort of Pixel Buffer with the size of those textures.

- I just tried with all that set to 'Best' but Pixel Buffer to off and that works OK too, no crash dumps.

3Diva

nonesuch00 said:

nonesuch00 said:

Well, I just got the new 4.12.2.54 PB Monday at midnight and I hope it fixes all the Filament crashes I've been getting. I'm trying to load a scene now and it's still slower than molasses.

The problem was I had upped the 'Interface' quality in Preferences were all to the 'best' but even with 32GB RAM that was too much somehow so I won't try that again until I have 64GB system RAM. And I'll forghet about using any sort of Pixel Buffer with the size of those textures.

- I just tried with all that set to 'Best' but Pixel Buffer to off and that works OK too, no crash dumps.

I'm glad you got it worked out! :D

detlef_c7bbe269

Hi,

how to dimm the light in the mouth ?

 

Richard Haseltine

detlef_c7bbe269 said:

Hi,

how to dimm the light in the mouth ?

Check that the lights are set to cast shadows - because it's needed for Filament the setting is now avaialble even when Iray is the active engine, though it won't affect Iray (except for Interactive mode).