Filament tutorials/shaders/lights?

Robinson

MEC4D said:

I have the same problem with my characters, once they use 3DL shaders they become invisible , mostly G2-3 or any older props that use 3DL , I have to convert the shaders to Iray CTRL click and replace the shaders and everything showing up again in Filament . Even sending stuff from Zbrush via GOZ make it invisible as it automatic use 3DL shader by import .

It works OK but all of a sudden will disappear and I don't know what I did to make it do that (if anything).  I just get a kind-of grey.  I can't get it back again afterwards either without saving and restarting Daz.  It's on G3 with iRay shaders.  Bog-standard bugletto I think.

MEC4D

For me it don't even show up in Filament for a moment it is transparent  , same when using characters from my Poser My Library , I reported it as a bug some time ago , funny thing is all I can see are eyelashes when using G2-3 characters  with materials not converted to iray materials .

if it looks all kinda gray and you can see the model at last, turn the ISO scale value down under Filament Options node , it will show up the color textures better, and if it vanishing completely there is a shader issue that trigger it for sure . I can't find other reason than that , try turning off the Mipmaps option before loading your figure , it helps too with some issues.

Robinson said:

MEC4D said:

I have the same problem with my characters, once they use 3DL shaders they become invisible , mostly G2-3 or any older props that use 3DL , I have to convert the shaders to Iray CTRL click and replace the shaders and everything showing up again in Filament . Even sending stuff from Zbrush via GOZ make it invisible as it automatic use 3DL shader by import .

It works OK but all of a sudden will disappear and I don't know what I did to make it do that (if anything).  I just get a kind-of grey.  I can't get it back again afterwards either without saving and restarting Daz.  It's on G3 with iRay shaders.  Bog-standard bugletto I think.

 

MEC4D

OK guys something interesting for you to explore in Filament 

I remember from 8 years ago there was big talk about Bent Normal maps  that in realtime game rendering engines was helpful to adjust the IBL lightings so models don't have for example  glowing nostrils , ears or eyelids

So I made a Bent Noraml map ( without baking AO into it ) and tried in Filament and it worked !  of course you need to prepare it a little better for working just perfect, it also works with 3DL shaders so probably can be used in Uber Environment hen using IBL

Below the left use Bent Normals and the right not , when proper edited you leaving only the areas that are affected by IBL lighting and clean the other and blend it all together with a regular Tangent Normal map for optimal result to improve the appearance in realtime engine like our simple version of Filament .

Bent Normals can also improve a lot of stuff in iray on some materials and high detailed models, since you can control the environment lighting using the map and change its directions in places where you want. Great to bring extra details on low poly models.

You can also manually paint a bent map , preventing the light to enter the nostrils or other cavities by changing its direction and intensity independent from the light source of IBL ( environmental light and reflections )

 

icprncss

Darn. I thought we left glowing nostrils behind ages ago. I should check my archived runtimes for the props we used to parent to the head to plug the nostrils. Okay, no one throw anything at me. It's been a long night and looks to be an even longer morning. I don't have access to my own system and I can't leave the floor for a while so I'm going to ask what maybe a dumb question but I'm sleep deprived so bear with me. Filament does not seem to manage shadows very well. At least that's the general impression I'm getting. If that's the case can we use PWCatch? I know, it's an older product but it provided DS with shadow catching back when it needed. If there's a reason it won't work, just ignore me or tell me why. For all I know, it doesn't work in more current versions of DS. I'll be at my desk drinking another double hot chocolate with two triple espressos.

Petra

I just installed Daz Studio 4.14 and I am very happy to be able to use my RTX 3080 card, finally but what is going on with that filament renderer?

I watched a tutorial on youtube and the skin and all the rest of it is very underwhelming, to say the least.

I will stick to Nvidia for the time being until everything is functional in the filament.

ArtAngel

elFletch said:

nonesuch00 said:

GETSX said:

MEC4D said:

 

MEC4D said:

I don't know if Filament ultimately has that capability although Filament in 'realtime' PBR mode is fast enough and looks good enough to run on most modern mobile hardware if RAM amounts are increased. I couldn't tell you if Unity, UE4, and Crysis are using Filament in their crossplatform engines though

Filament was developed at google as a side project, It's neat, and allows a developer to get 3D rendering with PBR very quickly. It's really cool and can render some nice images, Unity, UE4 and Crysis all use their own proprietary rendering engines.

While its not realistic to expect filament to match iray keep in mind that this new update will give you viewport Ambient Occlusion, Realtime Shadows, and Order independent transparency. Those will pull the current viewport out of the 90s and make it far more usefull.

In a nutshell, Filament was developed primarily for the Android and is a to Gaming what paint is to photoshop. Filament is for apps that don't want the huge overhead that a 3D game render engine like Unity has.

MEC4D

It is Physically Based Renderer  as Iray but lightweight versions and not as the original filament engine as it missing a lot of functions , there is no shadow catcher (YET) the enviorment HDRI is used only as IBL like it was in early version of Poser, it don't produce shadows, no global illuminations and the materials not reflecting other materials .. no transulency, no SSS, no volumetrics .... and your figure's skin will looks like in Poser 4 

Shadows can be generated using distance and spot lights, there is limitations how many light with shadows you can use .. it is a draw mode so not expect much , it is great to setup PBR shaders as it works perfectly , metals, nonmetal materials etc.. 

Happy Preview Rendering !

 

icprncss said:

Darn. I thought we left glowing nostrils behind ages ago. I should check my archived runtimes for the props we used to parent to the head to plug the nostrils. Okay, no one throw anything at me. It's been a long night and looks to be an even longer morning. I don't have access to my own system and I can't leave the floor for a while so I'm going to ask what maybe a dumb question but I'm sleep deprived so bear with me. Filament does not seem to manage shadows very well. At least that's the general impression I'm getting. If that's the case can we use PWCatch? I know, it's an older product but it provided DS with shadow catching back when it needed. If there's a reason it won't work, just ignore me or tell me why. For all I know, it doesn't work in more current versions of DS. I'll be at my desk drinking another double hot chocolate with two triple espressos.

 

MEC4D

Follow the PBR and you get nice result for most surfaces , there is no skin settings for this ,volumetric shader not working so unless you want your skin to looks like Poser4 ..be my guest !

I believe that V4 and M4 may profit of the Filament a lot, since the skin maps has baked light and shadows in it 

ah and there is a new product for Filament .. back to Poser4 skin , the beautiful and shiny .. 

I am seriously tried already ... people can't follow a simple instructions , yet they need pdf for making Poser4 skin , it is a plastic a default set in Daz Studio , you don't need to do anything 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Happy for you ! stick with the stuff you are best on !  you don't need to learn anything new to use Filament , it do the same as iray just like preview mode , kinda I am using in my texturing programs to create PBR shaders .. nut full renderer .. and a lot of limitations .. that is not a switch ! that is a little backwards option ..like Draw mode for Iray but much less than that

PBR said:

I just installed Daz Studio 4.14 and I am very happy to be able to use my RTX 3080 card, finally but what is going on with that filament renderer?

I watched a tutorial on youtube and the skin and all the rest of it is very underwhelming, to say the least.

I will stick to Nvidia for the time being until everything is functional in the filament.

 

MEC4D

But we don't have it the way it is used in other apps .. only a simple preview  , if the Filament in D|S had the all functions and own shaders active , it would be really great tool for many Artists .. it works with PBR values , but render out 20% of what it should originally .. You expected to get new Iphone for christmas and you got just the box .. that's the difference 

It is still very useful for my workflows and you can see enviorment map and pose your stuff better without running Cudas and iray , or make some concept art .. 

ArtAngel said:

elFletch said:

nonesuch00 said:

GETSX said:

MEC4D said:

 

In a nutshell, Filament was developed primarily for the Android and is a to Gaming what paint is to photoshop. Filament is for apps that don't want the huge overhead that a 3D game render engine like Unity has.

 

Zilvergrafix

Mh..no complaints here  (rarely on me because I'm have a Doctorate on Master Complaining)

... for now. 

it does like it does, a viewport preview, with some time I hope DS implement all the full characteristics, at this moment is better preview than XPS preview (XNA Lara).

if only... setting after doing a filament preview darkens my original file but I prefer doing a second scene in a folder called Filament Scenes, and voila.

 

MEC4D

@Zilvergrafix very nice , as I said before  it looks great on all PBR materials but skin for now , and if you want to make skin looking better in Filament (without SS), you need to made it proper from the beginning and paint the nostrils dark , you need skin maps with Ambient Occlusion baked in , as it was early for games or use bent normals 

Zilvergrafix

MEC4D said:

@Zilvergrafix very nice , as I said before  it looks great on all PBR materials but skin for now , and if you want to make skin looking better in Filament (without SS), you need to made it proper from the beginning and paint the nostrils dark , you need skin maps with Ambient Occlusion baked in , as it was early for games or use bent normals 

thanks for the tip of AO baked for skin, Filament is more like a "3Delight reinforced" in some way

MEC4D

Yeah exactly 3DL + extra  I used PBR maps on my 3DL clothing characters before iray in DS but it never looking as good as in Filament , baked AO make it just looking better like in an old game 

Zilvergrafix said:

MEC4D said:

 

thanks for the tip of AO baked for skin, Filament is more like a "3Delight reinforced" in some way

 

khorneV2

marble said:

@MEC4D : Many thanks. I'm just on my way out right now but I'll read it in detail when I get home. Your efforts are very much appreciated.

+1

Sven Dullah

MEC4D said:

Yeah exactly 3DL + extra  I used PBR maps on my 3DL clothing characters before iray in DS but it never looking as good as in Filament , baked AO make it just looking better like in an old game 

Zilvergrafix said:

MEC4D said:

 

thanks for the tip of AO baked for skin, Filament is more like a "3Delight reinforced" in some way

 

Maybe you should have used the 3DL built in pathtracer?

MEC4D

 Thanks, I hope it helps a little bit 

khorneV2 said:

marble said:

@MEC4D : Many thanks. I'm just on my way out right now but I'll read it in detail when I get home. Your efforts are very much appreciated.

+1

 

MEC4D

I have blast from the past , just tried my Buddy textures ( Buddy to M5 ) looks better than Genesis 8 in Filament 

no .. the maps was PBR based that was the issue in 3DL , it was not rendering it optimal as it should especially the metallic parts 

and of course 3DL engine is better than Filament when you look from the technical side .. Filament is like Poser 4 + to be exactly 

When I look on the new products in the store , I have flash back to 1998  exactly ...   

 

Sven Dullah said:

MEC4D said:

Yeah exactly 3DL + extra  I used PBR maps on my 3DL clothing characters before iray in DS but it never looking as good as in Filament , baked AO make it just looking better like in an old game 

Zilvergrafix said:

MEC4D said:

 

thanks for the tip of AO baked for skin, Filament is more like a "3Delight reinforced" in some way

 

Maybe you should have used the 3DL built in pathtracer?

 

KenYano

Hi all. Not to but in but I'm on a Mac and I downloaded the updates and have the Filament engine stuff installes but one minor issue is I don't see th

MEC4D

I am not 100% sure , but I believe there is no Filament for Mac users in the last build yet

BionicSkillz said:

Hi all. Not to but in but I'm on a Mac and I downloaded the updates and have the Filament engine stuff installes but one minor issue is I don't see th

 

marble

Two questions:

1). I see Filament renders here where the hair looks almost as it should in Iray but when I try I get a shiny, semi-transparent blob which shows the cranium and/or objects behind the hair. How to make hair look realistic in Filament renders?

2). Nostrils and other areas which should be dark. When I load a human figure in a Filament screen she looks like she has an internal light shining through her nostils, etc. I think this has something to do with AO but I don't know where to adjust it.

Thanks.

khorneV2

Just a question How where shadows integrated in Gen4 (V4M4) textures, please ?

KenYano

BionicSkillz said:

Hi all. Not to but in but I'm on a Mac and I downloaded the updates and have the Filament engine stuff installes but one minor issue is I don't see th

Now maybe if I completed my sentence - My Mac downloaded all the updates and the Fillament engine is there with all the necessary nodes, etc. It's just when I pull down that preview render option I don't see the "PBR" option? Anyone on a Mac know why?

PhilW

BionicSkillz said:

BionicSkillz said:

Hi all. Not to but in but I'm on a Mac and I downloaded the updates and have the Filament engine stuff installes but one minor issue is I don't see th

Now maybe if I completed my sentence - My Mac downloaded all the updates and the Fillament engine is there with all the necessary nodes, etc. It's just when I pull down that preview render option I don't see the "PBR" option? Anyone on a Mac know why?

I'm pretty sure it is not available on Macs (yet?).

Richard Haseltine

PhilW said:

BionicSkillz said:

BionicSkillz said:

Hi all. Not to but in but I'm on a Mac and I downloaded the updates and have the Filament engine stuff installes but one minor issue is I don't see th

Now maybe if I completed my sentence - My Mac downloaded all the updates and the Fillament engine is there with all the necessary nodes, etc. It's just when I pull down that preview render option I don't see the "PBR" option? Anyone on a Mac know why?

I'm pretty sure it is not available on Macs (yet?).

Correct

MEC4D

We used textures with a lot of light build in and ambient occlusion , later we painted the nostrils dark brown , the problem is when you use Enviorment in Filament the light passing through the objects and the AO it produce is not fine enough to cover the nostrils , I suggest to use less IBL intensity and add Direct Light with shadow or use spot lights with shadows , or paint the nostrils dark on the map . There is another way as I already suggested in my early post  BENT NORMALs integrations , that will flip up the lights in the nostrils but I guess only for people that know how to do that . 

khorneV2 said:

Just a question How where shadows integrated in Gen4 (V4M4) textures, please ?

 

MEC4D

It will not works until the alpha map is not pure black and pure white .. if you have any gray scale in the maps other than black and white it will looks transparent showing the head and that is the same in iray, but iray render ( shadows , GI and AO) and you don't see it this way , transparency is not a physical based material , you need to edit the alpha map of the hair and set more contrast to remove the middle tones . It will works as I made some adjustments to my older transmapped hair 

Cut out opacity channel is for 2 values , black and white : 2 colors 

 

and for your second question, Menu Bar/Create/New filament options node , click on it in the scene tab  and adjust the AO under Parameters 

marble said:

Two questions:

1). I see Filament renders here where the hair looks almost as it should in Iray but when I try I get a shiny, semi-transparent blob which shows the cranium and/or objects behind the hair. How to make hair look realistic in Filament renders?

2). Nostrils and other areas which should be dark. When I load a human figure in a Filament screen she looks like she has an internal light shining through her nostils, etc. I think this has something to do with AO but I don't know where to adjust it.

Thanks.

 

marble

MEC4D said:

It will not works until the alpha map is not pure black and pure white .. if you have any gray scale in the maps other than black and white it will looks transparent showing the head and that is the same in iray, but iray render ( shadows , GI and AO) and you don't see it this way , transparency is not a physical based material , you need to edit the alpha map of the hair and set more contrast to remove the middle tones . It will works as I made some adjustments to my older transmapped hair 

Cut out opacity channel is for 2 values , black and white : 2 colors 

 

and for your second question, Menu Bar/Create/New filament options node , click on it in the scene tab  and adjust the AO under Parameters 

marble said:

Two questions:

1). I see Filament renders here where the hair looks almost as it should in Iray but when I try I get a shiny, semi-transparent blob which shows the cranium and/or objects behind the hair. How to make hair look realistic in Filament renders?

2). Nostrils and other areas which should be dark. When I load a human figure in a Filament screen she looks like she has an internal light shining through her nostils, etc. I think this has something to do with AO but I don't know where to adjust it.

Thanks.

 

Thanks but just to clarify (please excuse my stubborn ignorance):

1. (Hair opacity): Edit the Transparency maps to increase the contrast to eliminate shades of grey.

2. (Nostrils): Play with AO settings. I have to say that I did this before asking the question originally but couldn't improve the nostrils (or the glute crack). I'll try again.

MEC4D

Correct ..

don't expect perfection , it is real time rendering and render 60 frames a sec while you keep it open .

and the AO will not works exactly , the resolution is too low for the fine details , paint the nostrils and cracks dark ..as we do that with V4 and M4 lol 

marble said:

MEC4D said:

 

Thanks but just to clarify (please excuse my stubborn ignorance):

1. (Hair opacity): Edit the Transparency maps to increase the contrast to eliminate shades of grey.

2. (Nostrils): Play with AO settings. I have to say that I did this before asking the question originally but couldn't improve the nostrils (or the glute crack). I'll try again.

 

WendyLuvsCatz

interesting

that is how I fix a similar but nowhere near as bad issue in Unreal engine and iClone

I posterize the opacity map in Gimp to 2 levels so it is only black and white

it did not occur to me to try it in Filament for some odd reason

MEC4D

It is this way since 5 years in DS and iray ... Cutout Opacity , is not transparency .. it is alpha channel  2 colors ..  

Unreal engine is not Filament in DS ..  nothing much to compare here..

WendyLuvsCatz said:

interesting

that is how I fix a similar but nowhere near as bad issue in Unreal engine and iClone

I posterize the opacity map in Gimp to 2 levels so it is only black and white

it did not occur to me to try it in Filament for some odd reason