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Question: Where do plant materials like leaves and flowers fit into the Glossy reflectivity chart?
Thanks , happy to heard that, so now when you create a real nail polish, keep the glossy/reflectivity under 0.50, unless you want it to be a supernatural nail polish out of this earth and make it shine like a diamond at value 1.0
everything is possible and nobody can tell you YOU CAN'T DO IT , but it is good to know what is really happening and why , so you can recognize the wrong settings and correct it for better visual effect, light distibution and faster rendering while feeding your render engine with the best settings for faster process and calculations.
For the natural looking green plants Color Base Albedo : R: 123, G: 130 B: 78 and Reflectivity not above 0.40 , between 0.36-0.40 in general for all common materials , that why silk plants and flower looks so close to natural as they have almost the same reflectivity values , if you don't know exactly the values using 0.36 is my default for most all dry materials , everything above 0.40 will looks more plastic already or like covered with plastic . Also the roughness will give you the final touch and there are no restrictions , as your eyes pleased
P.S lower Reflectivity values will give your materials darker appearance , like a wet vs dry fabric for that same reason reflectivity of water is lower than dry fabric .
Look on the example below, water reflectance 0.23, stones 0.36 , it give the dry stone nice wet edge just because I changed the Glossy Reflectance value to the water value on the edges only, it made the surface darker and wet looking. And it works as well in Filament as in Iray
there is no water plane , it is just one material with different values representing different materials controlled by grayscale maps plug in under Glossy Reflectivity , or can be plug under Glossy Color when rendering with iray but then Glossy Reflectivity need to be set at value 1.0 as the other channel will control everything . 2 options any of them is OK but only the first option will show correctly under Filament and iray at the same time . That why I am editing all stuff I created months ago to make it works in both at the same time.
You going run into problem in Filament with other stuff like for example a simple grass that use one side planes , it will not render correctly the normals on the other side , you will also get issues with shadows like in this preview from Distant Light that render the shadows as one square in place of individual shadows of each grass , where in iray are no issues
sometimes no matter how good the materials are there will be some problems , most transparent hair use single sided planes and that why sometimes it create the issues
I can't fix it here , subdivision helped but the shadows still render as 1 square shadow in Filament .. bug ? or limitations ?
I see that the square shadow is moving when I move the scene in Filament like a floating square , cutting sometimes the edges based on the angle of view and how closer the object is to the camera
Distant Light should not act like that and not its shadows .. very bad romance between them two
The spot lights working better at last there are correct shadows , the fall off is not exactly proper but so much better
Thank you. I don't know how to enter an Albedo value in Daz Studio PBR Metalicity/Roughness. Do I just delete the image map in the Base Color channel and enter the values you specified? I tried that and my leaves look kind of olive green - not as green as your images in the post about the square shadows in Filament. My leaves are also pretty light in Filament and quite a bit darker in Iray. The plants I started with have translucency turned on, so I deleted the image map in that channel also and entered your recommended base color albedo value there, too. I don't know if that is correct - or if anything I did here is correct LOL.
I like what you did, looks really nice and natural , in Filament it will be always little lighter since there is no global illumination to create the darker tones and leaves don't reflect light from leaves only from the light sources, I like also the iray version very natural green, I do a lot of photography and for my eyes it looks good
the settings you did are good, I just use 0.58 for glossy roughness and not used maps
Tone mapping in iray compress the colors , check off the Burn Highlights ... so the colors match better Filament
Try this color for Albedo and the same for translucent , it is the same Albedo with slightly different green tone ( for grass) the Albedo is actually the gray scale brightness, the Color is just saturation , so you can change the color all the time , and keep the Albedo intact
I found a video explaining how to fix the lighting problem with Filament
WP Guru, great channel, I suscribed yesterday viewing all about Decal and Sections Nodes.
That's great going to check it out, thanks @raven449
I am going to change my name to PBR GURU
,No I don't, too many gurus latelly on Youtube lol
When you say "check off the Burn Highlights" do you mean to turn Burn Highlights Per Component to OFF, or do you mean set Burn Highlights to 0?
Burn Highlights Per Component to OFF
@raven449 this guru did not even activated the shadows on the spot and distance light .. did not helped me with this problem as that may be a bug to fix for DAZ .. but the rest of the video is good for people to learn about the quick light adjustments in Filament
I find it weird that a light intensity change when you zoom in and out the camera , how you suppose to do animations with that kind of light , totally useless
I was never big fan of DS distant light and spot lights , it creates an effect on the surface like a dust in both Iray and Filament but it was fine in 3DL, I am missing my iray emitters in Filament
when I was beta testing Filament before you guys got it , there was no issues with shadows and distant light so I wonder what is going on
I think Mec4D has a much better recommendation: Set the Filament Draw Options ISO Scale to 0.56 as your starting point. I think WP Guru made things much harder by not doing that as a first step and then just leaving ISO Scale alone. He set it to something like 1.5 and then he had to compensate over and over for that value being way too high.
Thanks for the clarifications. You are an awesome helper for this community!!!!
If you set the ISO too high you will never match anything with iray especially if the base lighting is HDRI map , a little confusing I guess but I suspect he got little lost and tried to get out of the trouble
I will suggest to setup all lights in iray first and then adjust the ISO and Lighting Scales in Filament and done , why? because the spot and distant light in iray need higher values than in Filament , that's the easy way, also Tone mapping in iray will affect Filament IBL intensity, so iray first..
and if you doing scene only for Filament then you do whatever you please, starting adjusting Environment intensity and then the rest
Thanks ! happy to help as I know you always helping others as well and share the good stuff
how your plants worked out ?
I render in iray early my plants with the same settings and the plants match so well the real tree , just adjusted the matching roughness as not all plants or trees leaves have the same roughness but always the same reflectance ( glossy/reflectivity )
I think Burn Highlights Per Component only affects Iray - right?
I tried an Iray render with Burn Highlights Per Component turned OFF, but it didn't look much different. The reds in the pots looked a little more saturated, but I didn't see a change in the plants. I haven't tried a different RGB value yet.
I can see the saturations difference in your previews , the plants not much since iray process it a little different , actual HDRI shadows and AO, different reflections , GI , Filament only use reflections from HDRI not from other surfaces , and the light passing through the object, as the building behind the plants don't stop the light from behind
you can try to adjust the AO a little bit in Filament , higher resolution and power , lower bias to get the AO fake shadows tight between the leaves to reduce the glow.
and the Burn Highlights C...works only in Iray
You can try turning subdivision on the trees , it may help with the better shading , also it is important for tree to have proper normals directions , play with the Smooth Angle under leaves surface to increase it or lower it and see if the effect is better . That what helped me to get the low poly grass looking better
@barbulb that is as closer as I can get , adjusting the AO in Filament helps a little bit but the quality can't be compared to iray, too many factors is missing even with the same lighting and materials there are limitations and I am not surprised at all. But I am hopping for the future improvements . That's a good start already
I applied subD to the trees, but didn't see a difference. I played with the smooth angle in surfaces for the leaves, but didn't see anything change with that either. The AO did have a positive affect on the leaves. It affects everything in the scene, of course, not just the leaves. I noticed that one of my topiary trees was floating in the air, so I moved it into position on the porch.
You may be right. But the video was still more then i knew before :) I'm still in the learning stage with Daz until I can get my hands on a Nvidia 3080. Hard to get a decent render time on a 980 Ti. Thought it might help others.
The topiary trees looks very nice , the other little fuzzy, but that is what you get when the objects are far from camera , when I try my grass with zoom out it was all fuzzy as a cotton and so much lighter
I noticed the one tree out of place
I think it looks OK for what Filament offer at this moment , always better than OpenGL
It always helps others , it was not so much of a tutorial but preview , and many others at last can see what it is all about and find their ways by trial and errors
I was hoping you found solution for the broken shadow in my case , got me excited for a moment
it is ok to share stuff , it may not helps one but can helps another
I go through all Filament stuff and documantions weeks ago so I know what is missing in DS Filament and what is possible and what not , just hopping for DAZ team to improve it with the time and add more functions , as with iray, the best stuff comes always at the end .
One last image and then I am going to move on to something else. I'm kind of tired of Grovebrook House now! I rotated the HDRI. I decided it was washing out the shadows from the distant light quite a bit. I also lowered the AO bias some more and lowered the power because I had pushed it all the way to the limit before. I discovered I had made mistake on the leaves albedo. Some of them had a value that was below your recommendation, so I fixed that. There are an infinite number of combinations to try!
Edit to add: Hmm. Now that I have rotated that HDRI, the filament render looks nothing like the Iray render. I think the HDRI light is probably shining through the back of the building in Filament, which doesn't happen in Iray, of course.
Very nice for Filament , I like the shadows from the Distant Light created the depth on the right plant , but not as much on the other , I tell you something going on with it
the colors are in harmony with each other , I hate when people put the fake green color plants , it take so much away
If you have an option on a tree or plant where you can add different albedo saturations it is ok to do it , you can use the base albedo to create fall leaves by just changing the HUE as I show you early even for flowers, you can make it slightly darker but not lighter as you already did.
and yes no matter what you do the building will not stop the light from passing through the buildings and it take so much away, the only option is to lowering the HDRI intensity and blast higher the Distant light But there is a risk that the surfaces will become like powdered with a dust , the side effect of spot and distant light in DS
you see in iray, the building reflects, corrects the light and blocks the backlights and creates overall better shading and deeper and finer "AO" than Filament .
I think you made the best of it possible so you should be happy about it .
It is very pleasant result
Quick tip since I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere:
Spotlight properties > Display > Ray Length
This is "display" so it should only be how the cone is drawn in preview. Iray works like that (it does not care about ray length).
In Filament it makes a big difference, though. Light really stops at the end of the cone.
@MEC4D, thanks for your latest card. I've read and understood this before, but this really helps me *remember* it.
P.S. in the post editor, is there a way to get the URL of an attached photo, *before* you save the comment?