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Daz Studio 5 development update

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  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    Kjartan said:

    I am somewhat filled with dread at the concept of Studio 5. So many plug-ins that I rely on are for DS3 and DS4. I am trying so hard to procure an OS 10.15 mac, but it is looking like I will be forced into big sur or building a PC.

    But then again, I switched back to Studio 4.8 because iray makes better renders in that version by a massive degree. So since we can't halt the furthering of time or bad decisions in software, I would like to make one little request:

    Legacy iray renderer support in DS5. When you go to the render options drop down, it would have each of the iray renderers used so far. That way I could use DS5, select the DS4.8 engine, and have things look good.

    I'm not aware of it being said anywhere that Studio 4.x will cease to work, meaning plugins will continue to work.

  • Mark_e593e0a5Mark_e593e0a5 Posts: 1,594

    nicstt said:

    Kjartan said:

    I am somewhat filled with dread at the concept of Studio 5. So many plug-ins that I rely on are for DS3 and DS4. I am trying so hard to procure an OS 10.15 mac, but it is looking like I will be forced into big sur or building a PC.

    But then again, I switched back to Studio 4.8 because iray makes better renders in that version by a massive degree. So since we can't halt the furthering of time or bad decisions in software, I would like to make one little request:

    Legacy iray renderer support in DS5. When you go to the render options drop down, it would have each of the iray renderers used so far. That way I could use DS5, select the DS4.8 engine, and have things look good.

    I'm not aware of it being said anywhere that Studio 4.x will cease to work, meaning plugins will continue to work.

    IIRC, it was explicitely stated by a DAZ official that the last built of DS4 will remain available for everyone that had DS4 in the product library even after DS5 release. However, if you start your DAZ experience with Studio 5, you will potentailly not see DS4 in your library. I 

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,610

    Merlin81 said:

    I'm on mac 10.15 and I use daz 4.15 with Genesis 8.1 and I have no problem but the rendering is too long with the CPU and yet I have 24 virtual cores, fortunately.

     

    Iray is designed to leverage the parallel processing of a GPU, and more specifically CUDA.

    IMHO, while Iray will render using CPU, complaining about how long it takes to render when doing so might be akin to saying that soup is hard to eat while insisting on eating it with a fork.

     

    Merlin81 said:

    The race for new technology only serves to enrich the graphics card manufacturers and feed capitalism. Don't fall into the trap.

     

    Sure - Nvidia wants to make money, but new GPU technology (and in particular CUDA) is amazing. I disagree with your assertion that it only serves the GPU manufacturers. It serves my need to train neural networks (and render) just fine. Besides, I can think of at least one computer company that, based on their stock price and business practices, may also be interested in profits.

    - Greg

  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 2,344

    algovincian said:

    IMHO, while Iray will render using CPU, complaining about how long it takes to render when doing so might be akin to saying that soup is hard to eat while insisting on eating it with a fork.

    Sure - Nvidia wants to make money, but new GPU technology (and in particular CUDA) is amazing. I disagree with your assertion that it only serves the GPU manufacturers. It serves my need to train neural networks (and render) just fine. Besides, I can think of at least one computer company that, based on their stock price and business practices, may also be interested in profits.

    - Greg

     Agreed, as a long-term Apple fan (first computer in 1981, first Mac in 1984) they're my preferred hardware and do everything I need them to do, but that's me.

    I spend roughly 30 hours a week working in Windows because some of the software I use t work is only available under Windows. I don't like iRay so I don't need Nvidia, but if I did, or if I needed it for work, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase the best Windows setup I could afford.

    Your best option is to always try and use the tools you need to do the job. A screwdriver makes a lousy hammer. Unless someone writes an iiRay interpreter, it will always be painfully slow compated to someone using an Nvidia card.

    @Greg: Regarding machine learning/AI for image analysis, just out of curiousity, have you read any feedback on how the m1's neural engine stacks up for serious use?

    -- Walt Sterdan

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,758
    edited September 2021

    Merlin81 said:

    Kjartan said:

    I am somewhat filled with dread at the concept of Studio 5. So many plug-ins that I rely on are for DS3 and DS4. I am trying so hard to procure an OS 10.15 mac, but it is looking like I will be forced into big sur or building a PC.

    But then again, I switched back to Studio 4.8 because iray makes better renders in that version by a massive degree. So since we can't halt the furthering of time or bad decisions in software, I would like to make one little request:

    Legacy iray renderer support in DS5. When you go to the render options drop down, it would have each of the iray renderers used so far. That way I could use DS5, select the DS4.8 engine, and have things look good.

    YES, that's a very good idea, I'd like that too and it wouldn't cost daz anything.

    How do you know? The fact that Daz doesn't chnarge us doesn't mean that nVidia doesn't charge Daz, or that the charge would cover multiple versions - assuming that they could even find a way to link two different .dlls that are delivered with the same name and location. And of course if they did include an older version of Iray then it would not support most current GPUs.

    I'm on mac 10.15 and I use daz 4.15 with Genesis 8.1 and I have no problem but the rendering is too long with the CPU and yet I have 24 virtual cores, fortunately.

    I wouldn't go back to a pc for anything in the world.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,610

    wsterdan said:

    @Greg: Regarding machine learning/AI for image analysis, just out of curiousity, have you read any feedback on how the m1's neural engine stacks up for serious use?

    -- Walt Sterdan

    I have a substantial amount of time invested working with TensorFlow (Google's highly scalable Python library). I do remember coming across a macos fork of TensorFlow 2.4 in my GitHub travels, but haven't checked out the details as I don't own a Mac.

    I have considered getting one just to develop for iPhones, though - especially since the M1s have been constantly on sale for many months now. Why is that anyway? Usually Apple stuff doesn't go on sale and prices in general are high now.

    Anyway, I also came across this article if anyone is interested on installing TensorFlow on their M1 Mac:

    https://towardsdatascience.com/installing-tensorflow-on-the-m1-mac-410bb36b776

    That being said, I'm allergic to re-creating wheels and there are many other libraries that I make use of that may or may not work. If you've ever experienced setting up Python environments, managing packages and dependencies, etc., then you know what a joy it can be. It was tons of fun doing so in Windows lol.

    I'm guessing some time is needed for TensorFlow on M1 to mature a bit. I don't know anybody working with TensorFlow on an M1 Mac, but would be interested in hearing about any experiences of those with an M1.

    - Greg

  • X3ZX3Z Posts: 12

    I have many hopes, that DAZ 5 will have clothing simulation system like in Marvelous Designer 10.

  • renoir.kobashirenoir.kobashi Posts: 0

    Richard Haseltine said:

    If you have the Public Build in your order history it should show in Install maanger - click the Download Filters button and make sure Public Builds are checked. 4.15.0.2 is the Geenral reelase, and isn't Big Sur compatible - the Public Build is currently 4.15.0.28, though there have been frequent updates so that may well change soon.

    The prompt about saving the existing filter may just mean you had something entered in the box at top-right, so it was asking if you wanted to keep that before applying the filter to show the Public Build from the Product Library click.

    Thank you Richard- this helped me! Clicking the "Public Builds" filter in the Download Manager revealed the option to download the proper version of the Beta, which is compatible with Big Sur. That little hidden feature was the missing piece. I have it up and running now on Big Sur, so all good. Thanks again!

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,758

    renoir.kobashi said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    If you have the Public Build in your order history it should show in Install maanger - click the Download Filters button and make sure Public Builds are checked. 4.15.0.2 is the Geenral reelase, and isn't Big Sur compatible - the Public Build is currently 4.15.0.28, though there have been frequent updates so that may well change soon.

    The prompt about saving the existing filter may just mean you had something entered in the box at top-right, so it was asking if you wanted to keep that before applying the filter to show the Public Build from the Product Library click.

    Thank you Richard- this helped me! Clicking the "Public Builds" filter in the Download Manager revealed the option to download the proper version of the Beta, which is compatible with Big Sur. That little hidden feature was the missing piece. I have it up and running now on Big Sur, so all good. Thanks again!

    Good, though the general release has also now been updated to the same version and will run on Big Sur.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,610
    edited September 2021

    In the OP it was stated that features and enhnacements would be rolling out through the rest of the year, with the final release of DS5 near the very end of the year. Does this still hold true?

    Also, is DS5 going to require Windows 11?

    I'm not looking for any guarantees or anything - just looking for the latest up-to-date info that's available as I need to do some planning surrounding a couple of projects and some hardware.

    Thanks in advance.

    - Greg

    Post edited by algovincian on
  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817

    DS5 is not going to require Windows 11.

     

    The first Daz Studio 5 preview/beta will likely be later this year, with Mac users having a good option we are holding off on the first release until we have a little more razzle-dazzle in it.

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    So glad to hear DS5 won't require Windows 11. My system with a 1080TI isn't compatible, even though it's only a few years old.
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    X3Z said:

    I have many hopes, that DAZ 5 will have clothing simulation system like in Marvelous Designer 10.

    Being able to grab the cloth like md would be great.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,187

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    DS5 is not going to require Windows 11.

     

    The first Daz Studio 5 preview/beta will likely be later this year, with Mac users having a good option we are holding off on the first release until we have a little more razzle-dazzle in it.

    Sounds good to me.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,610

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    DS5 is not going to require Windows 11.

     

    The first Daz Studio 5 preview/beta will likely be later this year, with Mac users having a good option we are holding off on the first release until we have a little more razzle-dazzle in it.

    Thank you for taking the time to chime in, and for the straight-forward answer - it's much appreciated.

    - Greg

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 8,335

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    DS5 is not going to require Windows 11.

     

    The first Daz Studio 5 preview/beta will likely be later this year, with Mac users having a good option we are holding off on the first release until we have a little more razzle-dazzle in it.

    That's good news for me too 'cause I'm hoping to stay with W10 for sometime.

    My questions are concerning "minium specs" and "decent working specs" - what are they?  I find the massive collection of information available these days about computers most confusing.

     

     

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,036

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    DS5 is not going to require Windows 11.

     

    ...just wondering if will still support 7 and 8.1. 

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,169

    kyoto kid said:

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    DS5 is not going to require Windows 11.

     

    ...just wondering if will still support 7 and 8.1. 

    I'm wondering that myself. I use 8.1 

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,144

    kyoto kid said:

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    DS5 is not going to require Windows 11.

     

    ...just wondering if will still support 7 and 8.1. 

    I don't think support for 7 or 8.1 will be dropped intentionly - but there will be some upgrade/enhancement that either will not work or, like with XP, will result in previous functionality failing. IIRC the support for exr files and canvases was incompatable with XP's image support and jpg and png capabilities went away.

    We already know Nvdia will be dropping support for 7 in future drivers so we'll be back to cpu only for Iray renders sometime next year. And at that point I'll reluctantly upgrade my off-line render system to 10 pro. My current hardware won't do 11; I expect to be pushing 80 by the time that happens; if the existing hardware is still working properly I'll be leaving the upgrade treadmill at that point.

  • TBorNotTBorNot Posts: 369

    Microsoft has stated that Windows 10 will end support in October 2025.  Remember, the reason for Windows 11 is a rather severe hardware problem that leaves systems open to bad things, so they want you to get approved hardware as soon as possible.  This does give everyone a working date for the upgrade.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,036
    edited September 2021

    ..when your barely skating by month to month even 3 years 4 months is a stretch on the finances unless something happens to kick in more stimulus money.. 

    As to the driver situation I am running the latest one (471.96) on W7  Which is five updates past the one recommended for the version of Iray bundled with 4.15.0.30. 

    The actual right now rub is not so much driver availability, as it is the fact that since 4.12, Iray has been optimised for RTX cards which puts older ones at a performance disadvantage, and with the obscene prices being asked, upgrading is not an option for someone on a meagre budget.  The 3060 woul be a perfect solution at its MSRP, however those are still selling for about two to three more the 330$ MSRP..  Been on the EVGA waitlist, but nothing yet.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 1,973

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    DS5 is not going to require Windows 11.

     

    The first Daz Studio 5 preview/beta will likely be later this year, with Mac users having a good option we are holding off on the first release until we have a little more razzle-dazzle in it.

    I always wondered if that's where the name Daz came from...

  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 2,344

    takezo_3001 said:

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    DS5 is not going to require Windows 11.

     

    The first Daz Studio 5 preview/beta will likely be later this year, with Mac users having a good option we are holding off on the first release until we have a little more razzle-dazzle in it.

    I always wondered if that's where the name Daz came from...

    Digital Art Zone, I believe.

    -- Walt Sterdan 

  • Jack of SpadesJack of Spades Posts: 80

    wsterdan said:

    I always wondered if that's where the name Daz came from...

    Digital Art Zone, I believe.

    -- Walt Sterdan 

    I always assumed it was so that they'd be dazed.

  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 2,344

    Jack of Spades said:

    wsterdan said:

    I always wondered if that's where the name Daz came from...

    Digital Art Zone, I believe.

    -- Walt Sterdan 

    I always assumed it was so that they'd be dazed.

    Oh, they might be DAZling, but if anyone is dazed (and confused), it's me. laugh

    -- Walt Sterdan 

  • PrefoXPrefoX Posts: 240

    inquire said:

    If rendering in Metal does become an option, think of the opportunity for a skilled Mac coder to come up with a product that transfers materials from iRay to Metal. Sure, it wouldn't be perfect, but then perhkaps another product could come along that would allow the shaders to be tweaked. In any case, this could be a real boon for some DAZ vendors.

     materials has nothing to do with Metal at all.

    If the companys aren't too stupid, they all switch to MaterialX, its a standard open source material which would work in ALL applications. https://www.materialx.org/ its by autodesk but everybody can use it. thats the way to go.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,187
    edited September 2021

    I looked at it, but actually I don't know anything about MaterialX at all. And look at what happened to Open GL and Open CL, which, I believe, Apple developed, and was supposed to be an open all-OS program thing. Hopefully, you've got something here, but too many of these open source things just crash and burn. One company in particular (I dare not write who, for fear of starting a war) seems to delight in pretending to pick up the open source standard and then changes or alters it so that other companies cannot benefit from those changes. So, open source, OK. Who's using it? How difficult would it be to incorporate into DAZ Studio? How difficult to have it run in the various OSes with DAZ Studio? What would it do to all the shaders and materials such as those for 3Delight, iRay, Firefly, Superfly, etc.? It's hard to believe that it would just pick them up and render, and everyone would be happy.  EDIT 9/26/2021:  Take Filament for example. It's supposedly open standard, but it doesn't yet work on the Mac OS, at least not in DAZ Studio. Apparently, it works on Windows, in DAZ Studio. But, it doesn't have all of the lighting features that one can find in iRay. So, should everybody switch to Filament? I've read complaints about it. I'm not in the least against Filament. I've seen some marvalous renders done by one or two people on DeviantArt, using Filament, and withing DAZStudio. So, maybe there's real promise for Filament. But don't be too quick to switch. All that glitters, as they say, is not gold.

    Post edited by inquire on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,758

    It looks as if OpenCL was Apple but OpenGL wasn't

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,187
    edited September 2021

    Richard Haseltine said:

    It looks as if OpenCL was Apple but OpenGL wasn't

    Oh, OK, sorry. I'm sure you know better than I.  But I think my comment about open source things bears some accuracy. 

    Post edited by inquire on
  • MouserMouser Posts: 675

    Is there a current list of what will definetly be in v5 and another list of the maybes?

    We all want a specific feature  (ie: Iray Server + animations) 

    but to know what definetly is planned for this release seperate from the maybes would be usful;)

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