Rosemill Moor & Rosemill Moor II Promo suggestion
Vhardamis
Posts: 576
Daz Folks, a suggestion if you would indulge me. The text on the new Rosemill promo popups is painful to read. Even with the drop shadow that white text on a grey background is illegible. I had to go stand near the monitor to actually read it, even with it blown up.
I understand the intent was to have the text not be intrusive but it serves no purpose if it can't be read. Surely I'm not the only one having trouble on these?
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Hmm, certainly wasn't my intention to make it hard to read - but no one has mentioned it being a problem until now. I'll have a look and see about making it easier to read.
Jack, I see no mention of Iray anywhere in the promos - How well does it render in Iray straight out of the box?
That's because the Iray version will be along shortly.
I've only done limited testing, but as-is, it looks ok.. obviously not as impressive as Iray specific materials.. they look a lot better ;)
That's because the Iray version will be along shortly.
I've only done limited testing, but as-is, it looks ok.. obviously not as impressive as Iray specific materials.. they look a lot better ;)
Nice one - thanks Jack :)
Nice one - thanks Jack :)
No worries..
I went this route rather than dropping Poser support.. so it's going to be interesting to see how it all pans out :)
Nice one - thanks Jack :)
No worries..
I went this route rather than dropping Poser support.. so it's going to be interesting to see how it all pans out :)
Makes sense. Cool - I see the "Materials optimized for 3Delight" comment now on the product page.... Was that there before, or did you just add it? I'm wondering if I'm going senile lol
I hope all products start including comments like that in the future. Either one or both of "Materials optimized for 3Delight" or "Materials optimized for Iray" appearing in the 'What's Included and Features' section would allay much of my current purchasing fear.
Both parts are WONDERFUL! You must be the founder of English Heritage. :)
That's because the Iray version will be along shortly.
I've only done limited testing, but as-is, it looks ok.. obviously not as impressive as Iray specific materials.. they look a lot better ;)
Do you mean there will be a separate Iray version or just an update, or a paid for Iray preset product - don't want to buy this set just to have to buy it again.
Thanks
No worries..
I went this route rather than dropping Poser support.. so it's going to be interesting to see how it all pans out :)
Makes sense. Cool - I see the "Materials optimized for 3Delight" comment now on the product page.... Was that there before, or did you just add it? I'm wondering if I'm going senile lol
I hope all products start including comments like that in the future. Either one or both of "Materials optimized for 3Delight" or "Materials optimized for Iray" appearing in the 'What's Included and Features' section would allay much of my current purchasing fear.
Was already there I believe.. :)
Do you mean there will be a separate Iray version or just an update, or a paid for Iray preset product - don't want to buy this set just to have to buy it again.
Thanks
This instance it will be a paid for Iray preset, but it will be cheaper than the main set.
Do you mean there will be a separate Iray version or just an update, or a paid for Iray preset product - don't want to buy this set just to have to buy it again.
Thanks
This instance it will be a paid for Iray preset, but it will be cheaper than the main set.
So, does this mean that going forward your products will be released in with 3delight specific materials and then those that wish to render the product with Iray will need to make another purchase for the Iray specific materials?
This instance it will be a paid for Iray preset, but it will be cheaper than the main set.
So, does this mean that going forward your products will be released in with 3delight specific materials and then those that wish to render the product with Iray will need to make another purchase for the Iray specific materials?
To be brutally honest, I was going to see how this one went - I'm not going to make a blanket decision at this stage. It might just be some sets which work in Iray from the get-go are released as-is, some might get specific Iray mats included, and some might be like these two, and have them as an addon.
I'm really waiting to see what the reception is like, and play it by ear.
Thank you for your honesty.
i luv the lamp design
I, dor one, am just glad you haven't yet abandoned Poser.
A second thank you for including a Poser version!
I dont have any plans yet to ditch it :)
Iray seems to be the new default render engine in DS 4.8. If products will be split into two parts based on render engine support, I would expect (and would personally prefer) to see the main product released with Iray materials and add-on products offered for customers who choose to not move forward, and who want to continue to use non-Iray render engines and programs (3Delight, Poser, etc.). Making me buy twice to get materials for the default render engine is an unexpected deterrent to purchasing at all, because it is basically a hidden price increase, as I see it. I assume users of the other engines would be equally upset to have to pay twice for support for their choice. It will be interesting to see how you choose to handle this going forward. Thanks for your candor in explaining your thoughts.
I'm one of those that wouldn't like it if the traditional render engine mats had to be paid for separately.
Iray is great if you either have hundreds to spend on hardware or hours to spend waiting for a render.
I dont think they'll be a one size fits all solution really, at least not within the next few months.
Well, there would be if I just priced the set up to 7.99 or put it in the main store for 34.95.
My thoughts however doing it this way, was to piecemeal it so that the sets are suitable for PC pricing, as well as offering flexibility. Worst case, I was thinking of releasing the Iray mats (for this set at least) at a special price less than 2.99. It would be a good gauge to see if people want them, want them as standard, or actually happy to just run it straight out the box. That way, going forward, I know how I can work out the time spent on different features (Poser/3DL/Iray) vs the pricing of my content.
The fact it is a PC item which usually get addon texture sets etc means a separate iray set not unreasonable as such sets often have poses, lighting presets etc sold as addons anyway, for one of Jack's non-PC items one would by now expect at least DAZ studio and Poser mats and now maybe iray as he usually does all.
And none of it worries me as I will be rendering it in Octane if I buy it! !!!
A rare few might even use Reality!
I am so glad OR4C has out of core textures now as Jack loves his many big texture maps :lol: I can fit most of his sets in now.
I'm one of those that wouldn't like it if the traditional render engine mats had to be paid for separately.
Iray is great if you either have hundreds to spend on hardware or hours to spend waiting for a render.
I agree. I think it would be really unfair on those of us with older systems that can't run iRay if we were to find ourselves suddenly having to pay extra for something that had always been included in the product as standard. I've spent quite a bit here - enough to have got one of the '50% off' coupons that only seemed to be being offered to the higher spenders last month - but I'm not made of money and so in that respect I suppose I have chosen 'not to move forward'. Apart from adding a couple of GB of necessary memory recently, I've chosen to spend my cash on Daz assets and not on hardware. Not once in the months spent building my collection of 3D assets before the iRay announcement was it ever hinted that 3DL would soon be deposed as the default renderer, and so I don't think it's on to start penalising the people who can't spare scads of cash for hardware as well as spending a fortune in store. If I'm forced to spend out on hardware instead, then the money for Daz spends just won't be available and it will become irrelevant what Daz is charging, because me and others like me just won't be in a position to be buying.
I agree. I think it would be really unfair on those of us with older systems that can't run iRay if we were to find ourselves suddenly having to pay extra for something that had always been included in the product as standard. I've spent quite a bit here - enough to have got one of the '50% off' coupons that only seemed to be being offered to the higher spenders last month - but I'm not made of money and so in that respect I suppose I have chosen 'not to move forward'. Apart from adding a couple of GB of necessary memory recently, I've chosen to spend my cash on Daz assets and not on hardware. Not once in the months spent building my collection of 3D assets before the iRay announcement was it ever hinted that 3DL would soon be deposed as the default renderer, and so I don't think it's on to start penalising the people who can't spare scads of cash for hardware as well as spending a fortune in store. If I'm forced to spend out on hardware instead, then the money for Daz spends just won't be available and it will become irrelevant what Daz is charging, because me and others like me just won't be in a position to be buying.
Couple of things here:
1) Daz has stated as early as the 4.8 beta that they would not be abandoning 3Delight but had indeed extended their license for it. So I take that to mean that 3Delight is not going anywhere anytime soon. Iray is an additional tool in our toolboxes and a really wonderful one at that. In my eyes its not so much about "moving forward" as it is about added choices. Added choices are good things! Also, 4.8 does have the Uber shader that converts shaders to something that the Iray renderer can "understand" and work with. So far it works pretty well in my opinion. Its not perfect but then nothing ever is. Besides, there have always been optional "shader packs" available for use either as purchasable items or in some cases given away.
2) I have to admit that as a hobbyist ( with a budget I have to stay within) I would vastly prefer to not have to pay extra for a set of materials that lets me use content I already own in a render engine that is part of my base tool set. Since Iray is now an official part of Daz studio I would like it if items released going forward would have a set of iray specific materials also. As a customer it is what I have gotten used to.
3) Another thing to consider is that perhaps some of the content creators might spend their efforts on creating iray shader packs in various categories? Things like stone, masonry, wood, metals, various fabrics, hair and skin. I have seen some of this in the store already ( and have purchased some of them) This would also be a very good option for "converting or using" some of our older content in the new render engine.
I dont think they'll be a one size fits all solution really, at least not within the next few months.
Well, there would be if I just priced the set up to 7.99 or put it in the main store for 34.95.
My thoughts however doing it this way, was to piecemeal it so that the sets are suitable for PC pricing, as well as offering flexibility. Worst case, I was thinking of releasing the Iray mats (for this set at least) at a special price less than 2.99. It would be a good gauge to see if people want them, want them as standard, or actually happy to just run it straight out the box. That way, going forward, I know how I can work out the time spent on different features (Poser/3DL/Iray) vs the pricing of my content.I'm not sure how you could determine whether customers "want them as standard" by looking at the sales of separately priced items. I want them as standard, but I may not purchase the base or addon at all if Iray support is priced separately, because I may not want to "pay twice". It seems that you would have to offer the same product with Iray textures, with 3Delight textures, and with both (priced accordingly) and see how each one sells to determine what people want.
I want to move forward and try new things (Iray). I'm no longer purchasing 3delight shader or light products. I understand that other people have a strong attachment to 3Delight or Poser materials. There is nothing wrong with that either. You are catering to a motley crew, Jack. :-) Do your best, and we will appreciate it, however it comes out. Thanks for a forum to express our thoughts on this matter.
People bashing Iray because it requires huge hardware investments may not be aware that Iray can run with CPU only and does not need a multi-hundred dollar Nvidia graphics card. Yes, it will be slower with CPU only, but it is entirely feasible and many people (including me when scenes don't fit in my mediocre graphics card) are doing that.
I want to move forward and try new things (Iray). I'm no longer purchasing 3delight shader or light products. I understand that other people have a strong attachment to 3Delight or Poser materials. There is nothing wrong with that either. You are catering to a motley crew, Jack. :-) Do your best, and we will appreciate it, however it comes out. Thanks for a forum to express our thoughts on this matter.
People bashing Iray because it requires huge hardware investments may not be aware that Iray can run with CPU only and does not need a multi-hundred dollar Nvidia graphics card. Yes, it will be slower with CPU only, but it is entirely feasible and many people (including me when scenes don't fit in my mediocre graphics card) are doing that.
I'm not bashing Iray and yes I'm aware that it can run on CPU power but its real real real slow. I'm using Iray have for quite a while now I don't have a Nvidia card but what I'm finding is for a good clean render it will take hours and hours, but I'm also rendering in 3Delight, and I really wonder when all the fuss dies down how many will return to 3Delight when they realise that a good render will take 12 -24 hours when it can be done in 3Delight a lot quicker.
An alternative would be a full Iray version and a full "legacy" or whatever version, but then those of us who wanted to hedge our bets would then pay twice. It's tricky so experimenting a bit with different options seems sensible.
I would've thought that the fairest solution would be to have both the 3Delight and Iray mats bundled into the same single-payment product. That way everyone is paying the same, regardless of what engine they're using.
If that makes the overall price of the product a little higher for some reason, then so be it. Thats the price we pay for choice.
Greetings,
I buy many of the texture sets that come out; I'm sure I'll do the same here. But I'm long since used to buying a product, then having to do work on its materials to make it work in DAZ Studio. Buying some of the older PC items, or anything on 'rosity up until the last few months, and you have a good chance of having to do surface setting fixups.
I see no problem with the base being 3Delight textures/shaders, and a $2.09 (or less!) Iray texture pack coming out later. Optimally it'd come out with it at the same time, but I totally get that's not always an option, especially with Iray being so new.
I think as adoption of DS 4.8 increases, there'll come a tipping point in a year or so where the default will become Iray materials, with 3Delight materials as a texture pack, much the same way many of the PC+ hair items relatively recently switched from the 'default' being V4 to the 'default' being G2F.
I don't think of it as paying twice, personally, but rather paying for Jack's time in setting up great looking Iray materials. I can take the current pack and do that work myself, or I can trust that as a PA he's got the eye and skills to do it vastly better than me.
But it's going to be a rough time, for a little while, as everyone gets used to the new player on the block. :)
-- Morgan
I know you were talking to Scorpio, Barbult, but some people think they can't try iRay without investing anything but some time and learning because they can't - iRay just simply isn't available in the 32bit version of Daz and I can't be the last person on the planet still using a 32-bit machine. I imagine there are lots of others too.
I'm lucky in that I do make some money from the art that I make using my 3D assets, and I'm bright enough to realise that I'd probably do better by investing in better equipment. Unfortunately my kids have other ideas at the moment, demanding a roof over their heads and food on the table. Most unreasonable :) When I do eventually upgrade to a machine that's capable of running iRay, I know I'll have to invest in some of that time and learning too. Time being money for me, if that turns out to be a large investment then it might not be one I'll be able to make in one hit and 3DL will still have to be my first port of call for a while.