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Well.. I;'m not ever likely to go iray - for reasons of my own, and I would hate to see content creators go to iray only shaders in their creations..
Still... this set is definitely one on my wish list.....
Cheers
Harold
I purchased the set as well. No matter the discussion on shaders, it is a high quality item and will be put to use in a project I have been thinking about for a while. Will I purchase Iray shaders for it in the future? I don't know at this point.
One option would be for a product to come without shaders and then separate out the cost of shaders.
That is, if the product would normally cost $30 and another $5 for different shader set, maybe the base product, instead, costs $25 and then $5 for each of the other two shaders types.
Hmm, certainly wasn't my intention to make it hard to read - but no one has mentioned it being a problem until now. I'll have a look and see about making it easier to read.
Thank Jack. I don't mean to be a pain. I'm on a 40 TV as a monitor and the drop shadow thingy just makes the whole thing blur together for me. The actual Daz Stidio logos at the bottom are nice and sharp.
First thing I'd like to get off my chest is something that went through my mind when I first saw this set in the store. And that is "I'm not completely content with the PC+ as a whole, but damn, I really really like what they are currently releasing as PC+ items". There's always room for improvement, of course, but still, every week I have to really fight against my urge to just buy every single new PC+ release. Good job, folks.
Also, I am glad that we still get 3Delight promos for some items. I know that DAZ stated they won't abandon 3Delight, but when the very next thing they do is completely ditch 3Delight promos for all their new 'Original Figure' releases in favor quite underwhelming Iray promos, it is hard t not get suspicious :D
"Oh no, we love you just as much as your brother. We just happen to spend every day exclusively with him and take him to Disneyland twice a week and give him twice as many presents for Christmas. But we really love you, too, and really don't any plans to give you up for adoption, I swear, because you probably have likeable character traits as well."
One thing that came to my mind regarding the release of additional Iray materials for this set is if it wouldn't make more sense, instead of splitting the product into a Poser / DS 3Delight set and a set of Iray materials, to split it into a Poser set and a DS 3Delight/Iray set? I mean I would assume that Poser user vs DS user is a much more sharply divided customer base than 3Delight user vs Iray user.
Not really
a lot of people me included have DS & Poser
but I render in neither :lol:
very quick Carrara Octane render
just to ask
are there flames for candles?
I added my own elongated spheres with flame emitter textures as could not see any
Again, I kinda talked myself out of it because there may be DS users who want the objs to import into stuff.. and then it would be a case of buying the same thing twice.
So, it's a tricky one. If everyone who buys the base products buys the Iray addon, then I'll probably go for that by default next time around.. as always, it's a case of watching the numbers and feedback. :)
Wow.. thats a large bedroom.... You could hold a wedding and reception there and just have the couple hop over to that gorgeous bed while everybody else parties.
No need to apologise but thank you for the clarification of your post - I'm just getting rather tired of the whole Iray thing its a wonderful inclusion but sometimes it feels that if you are not waxing lyrical about it people jump on you.
There's nothing wrong with your wording probably just me taking umbrage where none was intended - :red:
And please 'don't just shut up'
Just so the other side is heard- I am of the opposite view. People should not be forced into using iray as the default. I feel the products should be focused on 3DL and instead of burying an additional cost of iray in there for me and the others who aren't going to use it anytime soon, if it's an extra $1.00 or whatever, to have those settings then do have it as a separate add-on but don't bury that cost in the main product for 3DL users. Why should I have to pay for iray? I do think an add-on of reasonable cost is more fair to 3DL users. Two sides of the coin, and many of us aren't switching to iray. Many are / already have, so I'd like it to be fair for both sides. Barbult has an excellent point too.
Bought both Rosemill Moor and II, they're beautiful. I love the fireplace, it's really different. I haven't loaded the set yet but that section above the fireplace looks really detailed and I can't wait to see what it is. :) Do you use actual places for reference when you design the sets?
LOL!
My thought was this would make a cool restaurant set- elegant, of course.
Jack, just out of interest... Why can't future products just be released with both 3Delight and Iray support built in? Is it because it would make the product more expensive overall? If so, isn't that the price of having choice (3DL vs Iray) that we should all be sharing rather than heaping it onto just one side of the community?
I kinda understand why you're pricing it this way. However, it seems to me that the kind of pricing model you're adopting is saying that 3Delight is still considered to be Daz's main renderer, whilst Iray is an optional extra for those people with more disposable income available to them. If all PAs were to follow this practice, then 3Delight would become the poor man's budget renderer, whilst Iray was exclusively for the wealthier customers. Kinda seems like an excellent way to divide a community.
As an economist, its apparent to me that you're unwittingly using fiscal policy to dissuade people (however small that impact might be) from adopting Iray. :)
ps I would say the same thing if it was the other way around, so no need for 3DL supporters to take offense. I never plan to use 3DL again, but I don't mind paying for its support in a product that also includes Iray support. Parity is the only logical solution.
The problem I see with raising the prices (this is concerning PC products rather then PA products) to include Poser, 3Delight and Iray settings is the PC club becomes less and less of a viable option. Prices were increased when the PC+ came into being, to increase them again could have negative results things are before long going to be on a par with PA sales so another perk of the PC club disappears. I really don't see the problem with a separate set with Iray settings.
PC items don't usually come with alternative textures the Textures are a separate buy so why will this be any different; and if Iray is going to be your main renderer surely it be of benefit to learn how to optimise textures yourself so that you don't have to buy the add on its just makes it easier.
Do you mean without textures?
You're seeing things from the perspective of someone who doesn't intend to use Iray though - so its a case of "this system works fine for me and to hell with everyone else". If it was the other way around and the extra pack was for 3DL textures would you still say that it was perfectly fair? The only fair solution is to make everyone pay the same price regardless (thankfully I see that Fisty & Darc, Fred Winkler Art, Sabby and SWAM are all taking that approach), otherwise you're raising one render engine up above the other.
Iray is now just as much a part of Daz Studio as 3DL is. DS even defaults to Iray when you first install it. If you don't have to pay extra for 3DL optimization, then why is it logical to have to pay extra for Iray optimization? Iray materials are not the same thing as having additional texture packs available.
Future products may will be all bundled, maybe even more likely.. however on this set in particular it took ages to finish up anyway (just the price you pay for having the detail in the geometry etc) so really it wasn't an option without something giving.
Worst possible case, this complete set will cost approx $13.. which still, IMHO, is a fantastic deal. People commenting that for PC that is expensive, I'm sorry to say that's for me as cheaply as I could do it. As it is, a lot of people are picking this up while it's 30% off, which if they do the same for the Iray pack, will cost in total less than $9.
I'm not trying to persuade anyone to do anything.. I'm merely trying to make it cost effective for me to produce the level of content that I've done in this instance. Once I get my head around Iray, and workflow speeds up, it's most likely not going to be as much of an issue.. but alas, I'm not making any concrete decisions at this stage.
Thanks for the reply Jack. I agree that this set looks totally worth the price and I appreciate that it must be very difficult to achieve, which is why I was arguing for a simple price rise rather than splitting it off into 3DL vs Iray.
I wasn't saying that you were trying to dissuade people from using Iray, just that the pricing model might have that unintentional effect if widely adopted.
This would mean 32-bit users paying the price for a choice that's not available.
I don't envy Jack and the other PAs this headache.
The Rosemoor Mill items are beautiful. I especially love the mirrors, which remind me of one we randomly had hanging round our house when I was a kid, slightly embarrassed to bring my mates home because we could only afford second-hand 'old-fashioned' furniture. I expect a lot of that stuff would have been worth a small fortune to us now if my mum hadn't abandoned it in favour of tackier, more modern things at the first opportunity :)
I would have absolutely no problem paying for an iRay product as long as it was truly PBR - Not just the existing maps plugged into the slots but real normal maps, each material area separated out that have physically different properties, and roughness maps and albedo for the appropriate shader model (PBR Metallicity/Roughness vs. PBR Specular/Glossiness).
In fact, because I recognize that this approach to creating physically based and accurate shaders takes longer than with 3D Delight, I'd have no problem if the pricing point reflected that effort.
I would have absolutely no problem paying for an iRay product as long as it was truly PBR - Not just the existing maps plugged into the slots but real normal maps, each material area separated out that have physically different properties, and roughness maps and albedo for the appropriate shader model (PBR Metallicity/Roughness vs. PBR Specular/Glossiness).
In fact, because I recognize that this approach to creating physically based and accurate shaders takes longer than with 3D Delight, I'd have no problem if the pricing point reflected that effort. Well said, and I absolutely agree. I am willing to pay more for the real thing, too. The store descriptions need to clearly state whether the materials are proper PBR materials. I recently purchased Modern Brides (PC+ item) which says it has "Materials Optimized for Iray". They are not PBR at all and are just using 3Delight shaders. So how can we know what we are going to get?
Not going to quote anybody here because do do so would turn this into a veritable wall-o-text and its early yet so I want to be easy on the brain for everyone.
This has been an interesting forum thread to follow and lots of viewpoints expressed. Some I agree with and some that make me wince and that's fine. That's how it SHOULD be in fact as the forums are a place for us to come together and discuss and learn from each other.
Here is what I want to add this morning:
I was sitting here reading all this and it made me curious so I went and took a look at the more recent new releases. For the most part it looks like the content creators are releasing the new stuff with both 3delight and Iray support included in the product and their prices seem to be right in line with what they have been for the last several months. Some content creators did not do this but everyone has the Iray uber shader that DAZ gave to us for FREE that does seem to do an adequate job so I'm not at all concerned about that. Besides, once everyone gets more time to experiment and learn. There will possibly be a bit of a flood of shader bundles released for just about anything one can think of. I have already found some nice ones being given away.
Now something that I saw in this thread has been a bit saddening and those are the ones that are the ones with the divisive themes. I understand that not everyone has an Nvidia card with 4gig of VRAM on board. Those people can still use Iray in CPU mode. Yes it is slower but the end result is the same. Also I would point out that 3delight is ONLY run on the CPU ( vid card drives the display but CPU does the rendering) and we have all been using 3delight happily for years. As to the 32bit v/s 64 bit issue , well, more than likely the next time the user of a 32 bit system needs a new computer they will most likely be upgrading to a 64 bit system due to the simple onward march of technology that is inevitably occurring.
To start off, The sets look lovely and as soon as I can I plan to buy both, but then I am a PC member and that makes the prices affordable for me. I am not in a position to purchase many PA items when they come out, no matter how much I want to. I mainly purchase only the PC items. With that in mind, I will say that I applaud Jack's decision to release his product with 3Delight initially supported and IRay to come as an add-on.
I have played some with Iray and I like the way that the scenes can turn out, but I have also hated the way some have looked. I am not blaming the engine, just the user. The one thing that I do like with IRay over Delight is that the progression is for the whole scene at one time, so I can sometimes see some of the obvious errors after a bit of time instead of waiting for most of the rendering to be complete. I do have a 64 bit machine, but not a compatible card and have no plans to quit using 3Delight as my chosen renderer. I will continue to play with IRay and try to learn it, but I really hope that the wonderful PAs that we have don't start to abandon 3Delight.
no flames then?
I have also noticed the lack of flames, the relevant jpg's are there but they do not appear in the scene when loaded, and I can not find a duf file to use to load them. Maybe the geometry the flames are placed on is missing, Jack, any ideas?
I have also noticed the lack of flames, the relevant jpg's are there but they do not appear in the scene when loaded, and I can not find a duf file to use to load them. Maybe the geometry the flames are placed on is missing, Jack, any ideas?
maybe I should test DS version, used Poser version in Carrara
Here are some example renders I did of Rosemill Moor (but not the furnture) using iRay, plus 1 3DL for reference. The 3DL render was made using the light set that is included with the set.
The iRay pictures are done as a day scene with the only light coming from the windows, plus a night scene with the room lit with the candles. The 3DL lights do not work at all in iRay, so in the night scene I replaced them with linear point lights, and it is rather crudely set up as I was too lazy to put a light above each of the many candles.
I did no work at all on the material shaders, all is as it was loaded, and IMHO they look pretty good in iRay without much tweaking. The main difference is the floor which is highly reflective in the 3DL render (I pity the cleaners that would have to polish the floor to get that level of reflection!)
In summary I feel an additional pack containing iRay lights would be very useful to people who do not wish to set them up manually, but the materials need less work.
For those interested, the approximate render times are:
iRay Night: 15 minutes
iRay Day: 1 hour (though it needs more to eliminate some of the grain)
3DL: 30 minutes
The iRay renders where done on GPU only with my nVidia GTX970
Havos, thanks for the images and explanation - very useful.
Thanks again,
Walt Sterdan
You're seeing things from the perspective of someone who doesn't intend to use Iray though - so its a case of "this system works fine for me and to hell with everyone else". If it was the other way around and the extra pack was for 3DL textures would you still say that it was perfectly fair? The only fair solution is to make everyone pay the same price regardless (thankfully I see that Fisty & Darc, Fred Winkler Art, Sabby and SWAM are all taking that approach), otherwise you're raising one render engine up above the other.
Iray is now just as much a part of Daz Studio as 3DL is. DS even defaults to Iray when you first install it. If you don't have to pay extra for 3DL optimization, then why is it logical to have to pay extra for Iray optimization? Iray materials are not the same thing as having additional texture packs available.
I am and will continue to use Iray but I will also use 3Delight so you have got it wrong so your point holds no water whatsoever.
and I am sick of people jumping on me because I don't think Iray is the answer to all my prayers and heaven forbid that I might actually still wish to make a choice and use 3Delight.