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I had to try this with the "Show Hidden" off in the scene tab, as I was unsure if the hidden bones in the scene tab would show up in the View-field. Looks good.
As for facial expressions, I don't have a nifty list of start values for the dials, nor do I know how to make dials that control groups of others (I just hadn't had time to go threw the tutorials out there for that yet).
The save Pose Preset can be realy good, and at the same time unlike the skin surface groups, it is extremely tedious to save a single localized preset. It's great for things like full body running standing or sitting poses, not so much for facial expressions as I have found out from past user experience. I have no problem going threw the Content library for body poses, and tweaking a handful of body joints to get what I want. For body shapes and facial expressions, I more often just want the attribute at partway rather then 100%, I want a Dial not a On/Off DUF (Figures I realy do like separate head and body dials). I suspect there are PA's working on as much, if not products waiting in Queue at the store.
So, with the complete list of face pose dials in the screen-caps on the first page, I'm going to look into this mat thing some more. And possibly make an AltShader preset for G3F, so the spot-renders don't take so long while setting up scenes. This is going to be far more involved, as I can't just go to FW Eve (or any of the other Indispensable G2F figures) and do a Ctrl-click and "Ignore maps", lol. The zones are completely different.
Time to fix the broken coffee cup, the coffee keeps leaking out of the hole in the top of the cup. :coolsmile:
(EDIT)
Good spot to drop in a screen-cap of where the G3F 3delight AoA mats are in the Content library, and hence my confusion as of now, if G3F has Iray shaders or not.
Well, the first thing I do, before just blindly applying shaders and stuff, is make some notes of what the settings are. The diffuse, spec, etc colors. The min max bump/displacement, etc. Over half the sticky-notes on my desk are just lists of numbers because of doing this, lol.
The color is kind of important to get the skin-tone close to begin with, and because each shader (DazDefault/AoA/Omni) treats the maps differently, the colors are not going to be a dead match between them without some adjustments. The numbers just give me an idea of where to begin after applying the other shader.
The bump/displacement values are realy critical. Each figure has different maps, with different values. So if these values are not kept, a significant risk of ridge-like seams between the maps will become noticeable, especially in Iray, tho 3delight can be just as picky with fine shadow-bias settings on the lights. So these values are for the most part copied when I do this to figures. Sometimes it is possible and necessary to apply a 'Multiplication' to the two numbers to keep the ratio exactly the same for higher or lower min/max values (it's just easier to copy the originals tho).
UV mapping, "O" yea, lol. If you don't set this to what the maps were made for, your going to have some nasty results.
As for most the other values (Diffuse strength, Gloss strength, etc). As for the dials (not the maps), it comes down to doing lots of spot renders, and adjusting them till you like what you see. We all have different tastes when it comes to skin-tone. For me, I generally try to keep the skin-tone as close to the original the PA made, most of the time, unless I'm fooling around.
So. G3F skin.
Diffuse 255r 255g 255b, Specular1 173r 185g 196b, Specular2 196r 209g 205b, Velvet 239r 240g 248b, etc.
That's two specular colors, the Daz default only has one, and no velvet. This is not my first barbeque, lol. I take an average of both Specular, and start with that. The Velvet color goes into the "Ambient" color with a very low strength (like 10%). Again, these are not final numbers, it's where I start, and go from there.
How do I go about adjusting colors, looking at it from two different directions. The over all brightness, and the over all color.
The color picker thing has a nifty vertical dial on the far right, this is perfect for adjusting the color brightness, and it keeps the color ratio somewhat the same when adjusted. To get to this nifty tool, simply left click between the numbers in the color box. On windows the courser is a pointing finger of sorts between the numbers.
The color is easier to adjust in the surface tab. The numbers in the color box from left to right it is Red Green Blue. I simply left click the number, and move the mouse to the left or right to adjust the color. On windows the courser changes to a side-to-side double-ended arrow when you hover the mouse courser over a number in the color box.
Now for setting up the colors first time, it is easier to pull up the color-picker thing, and just type in the numbers bottom right in the color selector thing.
Eyes, Eyes, Eyes. So often when throwing AltMats onto figures from another figure, strange things would happen, lol.
G3F dose not have a 'Reflection' surface, and that eases the tediousness of making a set of AltShaders for them. However, Most PA's have there preferred way of setting up the multiple layers, and often they don't mix well.
There is no easy way to do this, as each eye layer can be completely different from the next. It requires going threw each individual eye layer, and setting the values accordingly.
For example, quite often, I would get a milky haze on the eyes when applying an Alt shader from one figure to another. I just had to go threw each eye surface looking for the diffuse or gloss setting without a map, throw the strength dial to 0% to see if that was the offending layer. And when I found it, go and find the map and put it in, or adjust the settings to get rid of the haze effect.
(EDIT)
Case and point. I just applied the Daz Default shader to G3F, and look at the eyes, lol.
Looks like the 'Cornea' had an arbitrary "Reflection Strength" of 100%. I'll set that back to 0%, as more of the eye is reflective then just the Cornea, lol.
Then again, the eye is very different, there is no surface that is the entire eye like on G2F. "Sclera" stops where the "Cornea" starts, hmm. In the past, I would set the eye to 15% reflection strength, and leave the "Eye Reflection" and "Cornea" surfaces at 'Not-There' settings (for the AltShader mats). I need to look at this more myself.
Save allot, and save often.
There is nothing more frustrating then needing to start from scratch. And sometimes it is easier to go back and load an old 'Materials Preset" rather then going threw swapping out maps.
I often make a new folder, and put my alt mats there. It makes backing that stuff up easier, and the alts for that figure are in a convenient place. The location of the folder can be where you like ("My daz" under presets, or in the figures original folder).
I simply select the entire figure in the surface tab, go to the "Content Library" and open it to the path I want the preset to be in. I click the cool "+" thing in the bottom of the "Content Library" tab, and in the menu select "Materiel Preset". From there I pick a name for the preset, and just click (OK) on the surface selection window that pops up after selecting the name.
*1. I never just save over an old file, never. All of my stuff has that three digit number after it, that is because I save as I go, and that number is incremented (I add 1 to the old number) every time a make a new 'Save-Point'.
Example from a G2F figure I fussed with in the past, not G3F.
After much debate and deliberation in balancing the ability to see the eyes in the View-field, having a respectful spot-render quality, and not having the thing do nothing for bloody ages, lol.
Irises.
Glossiness to 100% (don't need it with 0% Specular Strength).
Ambient strength to 25%, and drop the Diffuse map in the Ambient Color (RyJeane_eyes01_1007.jpg).
Cornea.
Reflection strength back to 15%.
Sclera.
Reflection strength to 15%.
Ambient Strength 10%
Specular strength 100%
Diffuse strength 100%
EyeMoisture.
Remove the map in the Opacity channel, and set the Opacity Strength to 0%.
"Multiply Specular Through Opacity" OFF,
Glossiness to about 75%
Refraction strength to 100%.
Index of Refraction 1.30 (probably the wrong number, it's a number)
The eyes are no longer doing funny things, Good enough to start with. I didn't fuss with the others yet.
(EDIT)
Now that is where the off reflection is from, odd way for it to be there tho. That reflection map in the "Opacity Strength" is just wrong, and dose not match the test chamber lighting at all, lol. So, I must decide what to do with the "EyeMoisture" surface, as it has no other maps, tbc.
(EDIT2 errr 3)
Never mind, that was a bad idea... leave the reflection on the Cornea and Sclera.
(EDIT 01Jul2015)
"EyeSocket" didn't get any settings, and put the pink part of the eye off (tear duct I think it's called)
Diffuse color 255r 234g 220b Diffuse strength 90%
Glossieness 65%
Specular Color 173r 185g 196b Specular Strength 100%
Ambient Color 255r 240g 248b Ambient Strength 10%
Having spent some time on the eyes, to get a starting point for other figures in the future, what of the skin. The nails apparently have a different color set to them, and thus I'm looking at the settings this way.
Clearly what is visible in the View-field dose not match the spot-render, and the spot-render looks nothing like the former render using the original G3F shaders. Clearly the settings are going to need to be adjusted, however I'm saving a 'Material Preset first'.
(EDIT1)
After a quick look at the nails vs skin Ambient settings, I determined it was safe to apply the same settings to both (for the Ambient color and strength). Drastically different, tho the Ambient strength can possibly come up a tad, I'll look at the other settings and stuff first.
The Diffuse Strength of 50% may possibly be a tad low (it's much lower then all the G2F figures I've seen), and the Glossiness of 40% (15% on the nails) seems rather extreme, lol. This is where I end up doing a lot of test-renders and see how the options look.
(EDIT2)
My first set of arbitrary numbers had a stunning result. I didn't touch the color set in the Specular channel for the skin or nails, I just threw some different strengths at them.
Skin, Diffuse Strength 90%, Glossiness 65%
Nails and lips, Diffuse Strength 90%, Glossiness 60%
And I think this adjustment to the colors got it realy close. Best of all, the spot-render was Done quicker then it took the old shader to Start showing pixels, lol. *1
So there you go. An AltShader for G3F, that dose not take bloody ages for the shader to get some pixels out of it's back-end, lol.
Skin-Lips-Nails
Diffuse Color 255r 234g 220b
Ambient Color 255r 240g 248b
leave all map images and Specular Color as is.
*1. A slight exaggeration for G3F, no not so for so many other figures. With nothing except Studio running, G3F has a face-plant time of about 45 seconds for a single figure, that scene with six of them in there plus FW Ja-Long had a face-plant time in excess of seven minutes. The spot renders in this post were done in about three and a half minutes (3 second Face-plant time). So often I would be trying to get a shirt to fit on a figures chest without poke-threw, and five minutes would go by, ten minutes, or much longer without a single pixel showing up in a spot-render (Face-plant). I'm finally excited to have G3F.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/47663/
(EDIT 2015Jul01)
AltShader preset for G3F, is now at ShareCG
Don't take my word for it tho, we don't all have the same computer. Try it your self. I've uploaded a further adjusted AltShader at sharcg, to make all our lives a bit easier. And the notes above should help you adjust the settings for other G3F figures as well.
http://www.sharecg.com/v/81384/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/Zdg-3DL-Alternate-G3F-shader-Preset-01003
I did a little bit more work to the eyes, and I'm still not happy with the skin-tone. Tho its an AltShader, and will never be exactly the same.
OK, having tackled the surface tab, and making an AltShader Materials Preset for G3F. I am asking the next big question.
What is this UDIM? And why am I only seeing the usual JPG files in the G3F folder? This realy looks more and more like regular texture maps instead of some malty-file-per-map UDIM thing.
Hello! May I ask a couple of noobish question? I've just found Genesis 3 Female Essentials in DS 4.8 Product Library too and I wonder if it worth downloading. At first - is it purposed for DS 4.8 and Iray only or it may be installed and used in older versions of DS such as DS 4.7 and especially DS 4.6 (I prefer work in this old version most of thе time because I've got pretty accustomed to UI and all its old bugs too)? How does it behave with 3Delight render and Reality?
At second, what about compatibility with Genesis 2 and Genesis old stuff - clothing, hair, footwear etc? And old stuff for V4, M4 and other Generation 4 Figures (though I guess I must convert it firstly to Genesis 2). Is there any Autofit support for such conversions in DS 4.8? Can I use textures from Genesis and Genesis 2 on Genesis 3 somehow? Can I use some of new Genesis 3 Female clothes or hair on Genesis 2 Female figure?
And how it goes with morphs, poses and expressions - I guess Genesis 3 requires its own specific morphs and poses and not compatible with older stuff, true?
And when will Genesis 3 Male figure come out ?- as I've understood both figures based in the same mesh as in genesis 2 figures If it's true, they may be cross-compatible in regard to morphs, what is very handy.
Speaking in general, what are main advantages and underwater reefs of these new Gen 3 figures and how much are they compatible with all that heap of prevoius stuff for older generations?
UDIM is a better method of UV mapping. Yes, you can have 'unified' diffuse maps, but you can also have discrete maps, too. As far as it goes, the diffuse/control maps can be in any format your app can accept...from jpg to 32 bit float tif or hdr/exr files (although hdr maps may just be a little bit of overkill for texture maps...).
Now, one of the big selling points for UDIM, is that the maps aren't going to end up 'stacked' and illegible when the mesh is exported...and be much more likely to be properly read/loaded in other programs.
I guess most of the benefits aren't really visible ones.
G3F loads straight from the Smart tab using the 3delight AoA shaders (at least for me). So yes G3F can be used in 3delight. The renders I did in this thread was indeed with 3delight, and NO post processing. The Jpg nabbed straght from the render cache folder (Or from a screen-cap).
G3F currently only comes with a G2F 'Clone-thing' in the Auto-Fit utility. This works for cloths, hair, and some shoes (Not high-heals, shoes). High heals need a matching foot pose to work, and that is why they fail so miserably for any generation conversion.
Poses already has a converter available for purchase last time I looked (yesterday). Other stuff may be in the works, possibly. Skin mats not at all according to the UDIM jargon that went over my head. Simply looking at the Map images for G3F, It looks like a UV mapping is all that's needed, tho that again is beyond my knowledge. (EDIT, Many others say not possible for skin mats. Geometry and map layout)
I'm fairly Sure that G3F NEEDS Studio 4.8 for most of the new geometry stuff she has, so unless you upgrade Studio, don't bother with G3F.(NOT true sorry. Works fine in Studio 4.6 64bit, just not the Iray stuff. 32bit dose not have enough memory room to do a spot render)
Now if you want to look at some screen-caps of G3F, dials, and some random stuff. I started a no-complaints info only thread here.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/845346/
(EDIT)
Duh, I thought this was the other thread, lol.
(EDIT2)
G3M, good question. I do not know when or if he will be launched. I was surprised to not see him in my content library, when I went to do that Dance crew scene on the former page. I ended up using a G2M figure (FW Ja-Long HD) for that. So anything regarding G3M is probably speculation at this time.
(EDIT3)
G3F left, G2F right, both sporting G2F stuff. This is the AltShader Mat I just made for G3F, the AoA one looks close to this, just takes a bit longer to render (and looks much better). I made the AltShader mat for setting up scenes.
Thanks. So I cannot install G3F or G3M into my old DS 4.6 and work with them straight from there, not switching between two versions? That discourages a bit. Though I'm glad to hear the most of old G2F stuff can be used with Genesis 3 Female. As for UDIM (UV mapping), it's beyond my comprehension yet, but it seems closer to the game industry and not very useful for DAZ Studio. But I hope someone will launch a texture convertor from G2F to G3F some time. Thank you for explanations.
Think movie industry and you are much closer, although it is used in gaming, too. It was invented by WETA for LotR.
As for texture converters...probably not going happen. not only is there a new UV system, but look at the maps...the whole layout of the textures has changed. Arms and legs are now separate maps. Ears have changed shape and been shrunk...besides being moved. The face is now much larger and different layout. Plus 4096 and up maps are going to really show any conversion errors...much worse than smaller sizes, because of the increase detail, making it that much harder for an automated solution to get everything lined up.
But there's noting stopping an individual from redoing the maps in an image editor or 3D paint program...it's just very unlikely that what needs to be done can be done, in an automated way.
I seam to be figuring out what UDIM is, by looking at what it is not, lol.
It is not splitting up maps into chunks of voxels with less then a value of 10 for vertical space, lol. My Cloth maps would be split up into individual files for each individual pixel if that were the case, lol. It was a mistake to send people as new as me to an interview article of two individuals that know what this stuff is, just having a casual chat.
dragorth in the V7 complaint thread suggested that UDIM is like "MARI mapping". I've never seen that combo of letters before, MARI. I was trying to find a simple (for dummies) definition of that, and there all referring to 'Normal' maps. Not only is 'Normal' maps not real geometry unlike Displacement (and polygon meshes the maps are going on), the entire concept is meaningless to a Diffuse map, lol.
So, it was created by a special-effects entity for a movie series. That I can understand, and makes the roundabout definitions of what UDIM is not, ironically similar to that of mathematics using "imaginary numbers".
Forget about the fact that the math is technically impossible, the Air Traffic Control radar actually works using it (Prof. Marcus du Sautoy), lol.
UDIM maps can be split up, tho they do not need to be. Or is UDIM more like the UV mapping of said maps?
This sort of answers my question, and as mentioned, makes little scene. I guess this is showing UDIM mapping of a flat featureless plane.
http://www.fxguide.com/featured/udim-uv-mapping/
I guess the better question would be, what would UDIM mapping look like on something not so flat, like an egg?
The simplest way of putting it...UDIM IS the same UV mapping we are used to, taken about 10 levels up.
It is much greater/finer control over the 'texture space' that a simple pair of coordinates.
And here's what MARI is...
http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/mari/?gclid=CLTvmqbyrMYCFYU9gQodGCEJzw
3dCoat on steroids...
mjc1016, sitting down to watch that now.
I just stumbled onto this, that is a far better example then the other one that had me thinking UDIM was a 3D map of sorts with that "Up Direction" of 10 thing. UDIM is not a pixel or Voxel level thing. It is rather a way of managing separate UV maps. And we've had separate UV maps on Daz3d figures for how long, at least going back to V4? (limbs, torso, face, etc).
Great thread...: )
I mentioned this over in the other thread but I think it's also worth posting here.
I've been using my V4 clone with Dawn to convert Gen2 items for a while now. So I thought I'd give V4 clothing a try on Gen 3 using gen2 clone.
It isn't always perfect but generally with either a morph or smoothing modifier added often usable.
Here's littlefox's V4 sugar on Gen3. If I was doing a serious render I'd probably send it to Zbrush just to fine tune the crotch area...and create a fix morph.
edited to add another render...this time hair is original genesis autofitted using Gen2 clone. No smoothing modifier added.
That is looking realy good. I've only been doing the drag from the smart tab thing.
And for those curious. Simply select the clothing item in the scene tab, if there is no "Mesh smoothing" settings, the "Add Smoothing Modifier" is in the menu.
The good thing about smoothing modifiers is they add collision so if something isn't quite right that will often fix it.
The good thing about smoothing modifiers is they add collision so if something isn't quite right that will often fix it.And that is exactly what I was just doing, the top was in the chest, not something I can do a full screen-cap of here, lol.
The 'Generic' often works well with the chest, as the 'Base Shape' one often doesn't quite get it right. However, Generic can be a tad 'Clingy' at times for other areas.
The 'Generic' often works well with the chest, as the 'Base Shape' one often doesn't quite get it right. However, Generic can be a tad 'Clingy' at times for other areas.Too true...
I just had a quick play with her in ZBrush and she is at base level very low poly. But the ear morphs I did once put back up to high resolution (mid setting) I think look quite reasonable for 5 mins work in Zbrush.
UV or UDIM or MARI or whatever. I think I see a cycle going on here, that is not quite as some others are portraying it to be. As I think for a half second about the Render engine I'm using, 3Delight. This engine was made for making movies, and has been around for a while. Now WETA (Weta workshop) created UDIM for the LotR movies. Then WETA created MARI for Avatar, based on what they learned from LotR. Oh, that right, the movie industry is always making new tools for the latest blockbuster. So while we are getting this cool UDIM mapping, the movie industry is also making and moving on to the next best thing. And the cycle works out for all of us. We get new cool tools for making art, and we also get to watch ever better movies.
UV or UDIM or MARI or whatever. I think I see a cycle going on here, that is not quite as some others are portraying it to be. As I think for a half second about the Render engine I'm using, 3Delight. This engine was made for making movies, and has been around for a while. Now WETA (Weta workshop) created UDIM for the LotR movies. Then WETA created MARI for Avatar, based on what they learned from LotR. Oh, that right, the movie industry is always making new tools for the latest blockbuster. So while we are getting this cool UDIM mapping, the movie industry is also making and moving on to the next best thing. And the cycle works out for all of us. We get new cool tools for making art, and we also get to watch ever better movies.
The image is in DS dialed on Gen3F...I only render in DS not Zbrush. They are shown at 100%, here are some more...I got a bit carried away.
Currently have 4 ear morphs, 2 chin and 3 noses...
Some of my morphs mixed together...outfit is gen2 Spriteling autoconverted. Blaine hair parented to head.
I hope to ask what is actuall merit to use U dimension UV for daz studio?
I understand, name them as number and make UV keep 1 off set, seems clean.
but what differecne before?
eg I can tweak easy gen1 default UVs as multi UV.
but after all, even though I do not set name 1001 or 1004 etc,,
it should be loaded without problem I think @@; if I keep texture off set, as 1, or 2, 3,,etc.
or I can re arrange gen3 default UV, keep the UDIM UV rule.
then import it as new UV set.
I thought if I need to change each texure name,,much my UDIM UV arrange ment,,
but as I menitoned, if I do not touch offset,,
I need not change any texture name etc,, it should be loaded without problem
(and there is no special thing,, I believe, the same way should work,,
if I just make uv with UV unit offset,,)
Is there practical case,, with daz studio , to understand U dimension UV merit?
Thanks. So I cannot install G3F or G3M into my old DS 4.6 and work with them straight from there, not switching between two versions? That discourages a bit. Though I'm glad to hear the most of old G2F stuff can be used with Genesis 3 Female. As for UDIM (UV mapping), it's beyond my comprehension yet, but it seems closer to the game industry and not very useful for DAZ Studio. But I hope someone will launch a texture convertor from G2F to G3F some time. Thank you for explanations.
Genesis 3 loads and works fine in D/S4.6. [so far, have not done extensive testing yet]
The pose presets created therein work fine in 4.8.
What will not work in 4.6 would be anything to do with Iray.
Very nice ears and morphs Pendraia. Thoughts on when or the name of the product, oh, sorry, I know better then to ask, lol.
Genesis 3 loads and works fine in D/S4.6. [so far, have not done extensive testing yet]
The pose presets created therein work fine in 4.8.
What will not work in 4.6 would be anything to do with Iray.I am so sorry for that. I should have stopped what I was working on, and checked before spreading false info.
Now the old 32bit CMS thing clearly never got updated from, I don't know when. G3F was not in the smart tab, However she is in the Content library. And the figure and cloths load fine. Then again, when I went to do a spot render, Studio 4.6, well, just disappeared from the desktop, lol. Let me try that again, lol.
Nope, No can do. The ZDG test chamber plus G3F in Basic-wear (top and Underwear) is to much for 32 bit Studio 4.6. Sorry, no spot-render from me in 4.6 32bit. The render dose start, and it all abruptly runs out of 32bit ram. Exactly like it did back on 32bit XP with 4GB of ram with so many other figures. I broke it good, rofl.
Next up, after I fix the layout (again), Daz Studio 4.7 64bit. I suspect it will not die mid-render, lol.
It's a good thing that I, "Save The Universe”.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/596918/
(EDIT)
"O" yea, "O" yea. 64bit works perfectly fine in 3delight with Studio 4.7.0.12 in the same exact Test-chamber and outfit.
Is someone going to make a converter so that we can use all the G2F skins we have on G3F? I got the stuff to get V4 onto G2F, but now after spending all that money, here is G3F. (rolls eyes).
Just don't want all my G2F skins to have been a waste of money. I am not able to convert myself, don't have zbrush or other types of programs and don't have the knowledge anyway to work it out. So that's why I wonder if there are converters coming.
Thanks.