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local parts place was selling the Asus 24Gb for $2799 Cdn.. and it sold out almost immediately.. That's insane - 4 of those cards would cost just about as much as our first house.. I'd have to pretty much get a whole new PC to support the new cards, so, no joy..
Well the newest version of Daz Studio just dropped, 4.21, for both Beta and Public. This version of DS still has the July 2022 build of Iray. This is important.
"API misc info : Iray RTX 2021.1.6, build 349500.11420, 14 Jul 2022, nt-x86-64"
This build supports CUDA 11.2.2 and OptiX 7.3
The problem is that CUDA released an update to support Lovelace, and that version is 11.8.
This does not look good for Iray support. With Daz just NOW releasing an update, if Lovelace does not work, we will be waiting a while for Daz to release any new version. Since they just updated the main branch, that usually takes a real long time to get another update. The beta may fair better, but it still takes a good month or two at best to get the beta out.
Worse still is the stone cold silence from both Daz Studio and the Iray Dev team. The Iray Dev team just fell off the earth. They still have not posted since August. Lovelace has been announced and launched without a peep from these guys! Where are they???
I would love to be wrong, but the signs point to Lovelace not being supported by Daz Studio. So again I warn anybody getting a 4090, you better keep a GPU you can use in case the 4090 doesn't work in Daz.
We know that when DS 5 will be released, the latest general release of DS 4 can still be downloaded by those that 'bought' it before release of DS 5, but... That latest general release of DS 4 will also be the only version of DS 4 available.
It would be more than just a slap on the face of those users that have chosen to stay on W7 to make the last DS 4 not running on W7 due to lack of Nvidia driver support and so far it looks like DAZ has tried not to cross that line.
With the above in mind, it could be that support for RTX 40xx comes with DS 5, which would also speed up the release of DS 5 due to the pressure by users that did buy RTX 40xx early.
Man, that sucks. I'm starving for VRAM here and in desperate need of an uplift. Feel like I've hit a brick wall with my capabilities without reaching into frustrating territory
It's one thing if NVIDIA support were just an minor part of DAZ rendering. But I'm not sure how to reconcile things like "well, ghost lights don't work now because NVIDIA changed the spec, and we just depend on NVIDIA for everything, so sorry" and then not have anything about actual NVIDIA support for their latest hardware.
When DAZ told us they were working to get pre-Beta of DS 5 out for MAC users, they also told us that the pre-Beta would have limited functionality and features would be added all through this year - In that respect they were not even making promises that DS 5 would be fully functional before the end of this year.
We have been through this so many times with new generation Nvidia cards, that I am surpriced there are still those, who are thinking/wishing that the new generation cards would work in DS from day one. If Nvidia has now released CUDA/Iray to support the new cards, it will take time for DAZ to incorporate them to DS and track down/eliminate the biggest problems before they can release even the beta version and I know from personal experience, that is not something that can be done in days or even weeks.
Don't worry, the private build doesn't support W7 any more, the question is that is it DS 5 or not.
I'd hate to think that there is any delay in releasing Daz5 because they were concerned about compatibility with W7. No offense PerttiA... but 2009-2020 was a great run for an OS... I think you got your money's worth.
That wasn't what I meant, There is no reason to postpone the release of DS 5 because of lack of compatibility with W7, we already know DS 5 will not run on W7.
The question was about the last version of DS 4, which will be the only version available to ones that have 'bought' it, will it require newer Nvidia drivers than the last one Nvidia has released for W7? The newly released DS 4.21 doesn't and it would be perfectly fine, if DS 4.21 became the last DS 4. That would leave a relatively recent version of DS 4 for the ones that do want to stay with W7 until there is a real alternative, or DS 5 turns out to be THE version one has had moist dreams about (sorry, don't think so)
The change log already shows us that the private build requires 5xx drivers, which don't exist for W7 - Is it DS 5 or still another DS 4, that's the question.
I think it is another DS4.
The new Driver Requirements are from NVIDIA for the new iray Version.
From the Iray Release Notes 2022.0.0:
The minimum NVIDIA driver version in order to support the new CUDA and OptiX features is R510 U6 (Windows 512.78, Linux 510.73.05). Note that the R515 driver series unfortunately features a performance regression that only affects Iray 2022.0.0. So when using R515 drivers, only drivers 516.93 (Windows), 515.65.01 (Linux) and up feature the necessary performance fix (nvbugs 3707149 and related to 3678591)
Ok... cool. I got what you are saying...
I have only been with Daz in the last couple of years, so I don't have any institutional knowledge of how they do what they do....
That being said... I just updated to the newest +Beta+ in DIM... It is showing up as 4.21.05... and my drivers are Studio 517.4
Is the speculation then, that we are realistically looking to 3rd Quarter 2023 for Daz5 (if it comes at all)?
egad.
Probably so, which means one should download the manual installation files for DS 4.21 for safekeeping.
Iray 2022.0.0 is from August, 10 weeks ago (with Cuda 11.6) and it has made it's way to private beta... It looks like it may take a while before there is support for the new cards.
Well hold the phone. Jeremion posted a 4090 benchmark in the Iray Benchmark thread.
HOWEVER, it is not fantastic.
System Configuration
System/Motherboard: X570 AORUS ELITE
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X @ 3700 Mhz
GPU: Gainward Phantom GS Nvidia RTX 4090
System Memory: 64 Gb
OS Drive: SSD 2 Tb
Power Supply: 1000W
Operating System: Windows 10 family
Nvidia Drivers Version: 522.25 Game Ready
Daz Studio Version: 4.21.0.54 Public build Beta 64bits
Optix Prime Acceleration: On
Benchmark Results
Total Rendering Time: 1 minutes 23.12 seconds
IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend info : CUDA device 0 (NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090): 1800 iterations, 1.466s init, 79.788s render
Iteration Rate: 22,56 iterations per second
Loading Time: 3,33 seconds
These numbers only match a 3090ti AT BEST. In fact an overclocked 3090 can hit these marks. Obviously that is not very good. I asked Jeremion if they could verify these numbers.
So if this is real, that does mean that the 4090 is functional in the current version of Iray. So that is great news. But the bad news is that the card is clearly not running properly. And if it is not running properly, there could be other problems we are not aware of yet. Like will dforce work, or the denoiser. The card might crash in larger scenes. Right now it is hard to say. But we desperately need an update to Iray and Daz to make this card work properly.
522.25 seems to have been giving issues for dForce across the board, so it may be wise to wait for a newer driver before drawing any conclusions.
...PM forthcoming to avoid further derailing this thread on an unrelated topic.
...are you sure? Last I heard a little while back in another thread after I mentioned about it (not sure if it was from Richard of Frank) but it was mentioned there are no current plans to dump 7 or 8.1. Keep in mind Daz still supports 3DL and with Wowie's Awe Shader Environment it is capable of producing near Iray like quality. Only Iray GPU rendering would be affected and that is due to Nvidia drivers, not the Daz software.
Yeah... For me Iray rendering on GPU is such an important/integral part of DS, that if it's not supported, the whole DS is usefull only as a tool to get the assets out to other programs - It's like taking a computer that meets the official DAZ minimum requirements for running DS and actually trying to run DS on it
Bingo. Chart Microsoft's path from Win7 to Win11 and it's not moving forward, it's a downward slope, becoming increasingly customer-unfriendly and focused on serving MS's interests not yours.
I'm not a luddite. I'll gladly upgrade O/S and new hardware and enjoy living near the bleeding edge. But when I pay good money for an O/S, that's what I want -- an O/S, not an advertising platform.
Same, and as DS is the only program that needs Windows, the only reason I would reluctantly 'update' to W10, would be DS 5 that had softbody physics, working IK, working animation, tools for modifying the mesh, tools for painting textures, neural interface and sentient characters.
Otherwise, I'll just stay with whatever DS 4 that I find best for my purposes.
Just read here:
https://www.nvidia.com/de-de/geforce/news/rtx-40-series-graphics-cards-announcements/
(sorry, German link)
that in Omniverse the creators can expect up to twice the raytraycing speed of the RTX 3090 series. As Omniverse is using iray I think it will be similar with DS once iray and drivers are ready (and DAZ does the update).
...oy didn't realise there were so many typos Fixed them here and in the parent comment.
Worse comes to worse I could simply move back to 3DL as like I mentioned Wowie's AweShader Environment produces extremely excellent results that are almost on par with Iray. For that only a high core count CPU and a boatload of memory is necessary. The other option is move to Linux and Blender with a W7 VM to run whatever version of Daz that still works on it.
Yeah, once I find the time to put the new rig together, I plan to start looking into the dark side. The old dog is not happy about needing to learn new tricks, but what they have done and continue doing with Windows, is something I can't accept - My computer is MY COMPUTER and I'm the one controlling it.
...same here, I could disable what little "fluff" W7 had without affecting performance. In 10 and particularly 11 a number of features are integrated into the core OS and affects more basic processes so if you uninstall them you hamstring your system. .
It's become like trying to buy a car today that has manual windows and door locks as well as just a simple basic instrument panel instead of all the electronic gizmos and vidscreens they throw in cars today.
And the funny thing is, that the one with manual windows etc. will live longer than the ones with gizmos. We see it in here as the import taxes together with annual taxes, are keeping the average age of the cars at around 13 years.
One could say; Keep it simple and live longer
4080 12GB is CANCELLED. Or as Nvidia says, "unlaunched" whatever that means.
Here is the official post.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/12gb-4080-unlaunch/?ncid=afm-chs-44270&ranMID=44270&ranEAID=TnL5HPStwNw&ranSiteID=TnL5HPStwNw-yMonikGsWfmla7cwtdGbjQ.
Pretty much everybody universally panned the 4080 12GB, from the press to consumers on social media, and me. But this is still a surprise. These cards have to be in production, they just have to be. So I wonder what happens with those. At any rate the 4080 16GB is now the only other Lovelace card set to launch at this time. What does this mean for a 4070? Will Nvidia simply slap a sticker on the 4080 12GB boxes and call them 4070s? LOL. The bigger question, will they still be $900?
This is madness. I don't think this has happened before. Certainly not this close to launch. It is fair to point out the 4080 12GB had no launch date set when it was announced. But I consider this good news, as the people have spoken, and Nvidia was forced to respond. Perhaps this will set the stage for what is to come. I bet the scares AMD into making sure they keep prices down if possible. AMD could score an easy win by simply pricing good cards well below Nvidia's.
...indeed, if you ended up in the drink, you could still get out.
Why exactly are you comparing CUDA cores from different generations? It is seriously pointless.
They were getting hammered because of the GPUs themselves. The difference between the 12 and 16 GB isn't just the memory or even a few CUDA cores being disabled.
4080 12 GB - AD104 processor
4080 16 GB - AD103 processor
3080 10 GB - GA102 processor
3070 8 GB - GA104 processor
Notice how the lower end 4080 uses a 104 GPU?
Yep, they'll probably slap stickers on them and call them 4070s.
Hrm. I was hoping 3080 card prices would significantly come down with these but they sell for like 1000€ here. Still, the new cards are *much* more pricey than the reference price what with the 16GB 4080s running 1800-2000€ and the 4090 ones 2300-2600€.
I guess I'll wait until the energy crisis is over and prices (hopefully) become reasonable again... seeing that there's snowball's chance in hell I'm spending a month's salary on something as pointless as a graphics card. Yes, would be nice to have one but as long as I can still render with my current one...
The 4090 was just released and those prices are not realistic. Since gpu's are a luxury item now they are scalped and resold at a higher price. You need to wait a little until enough supply is available. Also, since are still plenty of 3000 series cards around, it is in nvidias (and also the retailers) interest to keep the 4000 series scarce and highly priced until the remaining 3000 series stock is sold off.