No thread on Michael 9. Really?

SolitarySandpiper

AlmightyQUEST said:

The claim made is entirely true though, you are arguing against something that wasn't claimed. And if no one is doubling prices, arguing that the extra flexibility doesn't justify doubling the price doesn't make sense.

Sorry.. i was disputing the initial claim.

the quote chain is very misleading... i'll remove it. 

this is what i'm disputing...

Oso3D wrote..."Regarding pricing, just a reminder, again, that all the content is effectively doubled since it easily and natively works for both masculine and feminine figures (plus nonbinary and others)"

Now i would assume that's true for him... but i know for a fact that it is not true for me, that is why i'm disputing it.

Petra

Another Render with Michael 9.

I do like him, a lot, in my humble opinion he is the best of the Michaels, yet.

 

Oso3D

SolitarySandpiper said:

AlmightyQUEST said:

The claim made is entirely true though, you are arguing against something that wasn't claimed. And if no one is doubling prices, arguing that the extra flexibility doesn't justify doubling the price doesn't make sense.

Sorry.. i was disputing the initial claim.

the quote chain is very misleading... i'll remove it. 

this is what i'm disputing...

Oso3D wrote..."Regarding pricing, just a reminder, again, that all the content is effectively doubled since it easily and natively works for both masculine and feminine figures (plus nonbinary and others)"

Now i would assume that's true for him... but i know for a fact that it is not true for me, that is why i'm disputing it.

Which of the items in the Michael 9 Fantasy Mega Bundle are strongly limited to Masculine characters? I'm honestly baffled by that assertion.

I mean, I just looked over the list. There's two environments, obviously that isn't gendered. There are four outfits that I could easily see a woman dressing in (and in some cases, I'm pretty sure I've seen movies/tv shows/anime with women in similar outfits), two hairstyles that work great for women, then expressions and poses.

I'll grant you Michael 9 himself is... kind of by definition not a female character, though I bet you could push it (but you'd then want a different skin).

Actually, yeah. I think I'll try to make a feminine Michael 9. Michelle 9?

CHWT

IMVHO I would like someone who have both the V9 mega bundle and M9 mega bundle to post pictures of V9 wearing all the M9 items in the M9 mega bundle and M9 wearing all the V9 items in the V9 mega bundle.

Oso3D

Here's Michael 9 with Feminine +100%, Masculine -100%, Victoria 9 skin

CHWT

Oso3D said:

Here's Michael 9 with Feminine +100%, Masculine -100%, Victoria 9 skin

Good start Oso, now I hope every PA who make clothes (armours included) and hair can show us how V9 and M9 would look like in them in the promo images.

Oso3D

Well, for what it's worth, my hair product and Corgi product have both. ;)

 

SolitarySandpiper

Oso3D said:

SolitarySandpiper said:

AlmightyQUEST said:

The claim made is entirely true though, you are arguing against something that wasn't claimed. And if no one is doubling prices, arguing that the extra flexibility doesn't justify doubling the price doesn't make sense.

Sorry.. i was disputing the initial claim.

the quote chain is very misleading... i'll remove it. 

this is what i'm disputing...

Oso3D wrote..."Regarding pricing, just a reminder, again, that all the content is effectively doubled since it easily and natively works for both masculine and feminine figures (plus nonbinary and others)"

Now i would assume that's true for him... but i know for a fact that it is not true for me, that is why i'm disputing it.

Which of the items in the Michael 9 Fantasy Mega Bundle are strongly limited to Masculine characters? I'm honestly baffled by that assertion.

I mean, I just looked over the list. There's two environments, obviously that isn't gendered. There are four outfits that I could easily see a woman dressing in (and in some cases, I'm pretty sure I've seen movies/tv shows/anime with women in similar outfits), two hairstyles that work great for women, then expressions and poses.

I'll grant you Michael 9 himself is... kind of by definition not a female character, though I bet you could push it (but you'd then want a different skin).

Actually, yeah. I think I'll try to make a feminine Michael 9. Michelle 9?

Well this is another case where there seems to have been a misunderstanding... not once in the post i refer to did you make a specific reference to the Michael 9 mega bundle in fact you seem to be talking in general, referencing some other bundle and posting images of other clothing items that are surly not in the bundle... also the title of the thread doesn't mention any bundle either.

So to be honest i'm not surprised that you are baffled... lol

Ron Knights

I just saw a disturbing image of a hairy, bearded. very muscular Michael 9 wearing a bikini & fish nets. I probably won't sleep well tonight.

butterflyfish

Since we're talking about assests working for both male and female, I'm just curious about something. Are PAs including secondary materials for the opposite gender on their G9 characters? Like are they including male and female anatomical elements, and skins that could double as either gender? I could see how that would be a whole lot of extra work.

Oso3D

Butterflyfish:

I imagine it depends on the PA. I'm working on an old person and debated on anatomical elements, but right now I'm leaning toward not including any. I will be doing male and female skins, mainly for nipple placement (and a few other slight details).

For the corgi, like all my anthros to date, I didn't include anatomical elements. And nipples, well, it's all covered in fur. Meh. ;)

 

butterflyfish

OK, thanks. Good luck with your products. 

leemoon_c43b45a114

I didn't use Michael 9 at full strength, and I mixed a tiny bit of Toon Heroes and Growing Up in with him.  There's also some physique shaping going on with various morph add-ons.  Hair is the dForce Ultimate Buzzcut Hair, pants and boots are from The King's Guard Outfit, and the vest is from the dForce Dark Assassin outfit (with the shirt opacity turned off.)

Lee

CHWT

Ron Knights said:

I just saw a disturbing image of a hairy, bearded. very muscular Michael 9 wearing a bikini & fish nets. I probably won't sleep well tonight.

Ha, I most want to see if the chest area of armors would be distorted on the male or female base! I hate distorted armors. That's the biggest no-no for me

zombiewhacker

As for the price increase over previous generations, bear in mind that Michael 9 includes both standard Michael and Michael HD. Previous generations sold the standard and HD version as separate items. Michael 8.1, for instance, sold for $44.95 and the HD Add-On for $39.95, or $84.90 if taken together. Michael 9 HD is a comparative bargain at $59.99.

Anyway, I'm very impressed with Michael 9, as I was with Victoria 9 last month. This is the first time since joining DAZ that I've purchased a version of Michael and Victoria at launch.

Hylas

Petra and Lee Moon, great renders! M9 looks fantastic!

Tobias

Oso3D said:

Regarding pricing, just a reminder, again, that all the content is effectively doubled since it easily and natively works for both masculine and feminine figures (plus nonbinary and others)

Here's Victoria 9 with Marty Mane hair ostensibly for Michael 9:

 

And since I rarely render females that argument is totally irrelavant to me.  It is ok for some of us to regret that we are being priced out of this hobby. 

Cdl_zt

Richard Haseltine said:

Cdl_zt said:

Oso3D said:

Cdl_zt said:

So the basic argument you have is that because both sexes can now use all clothing it's ok to charge double the price of a similar item from genesis 8 era, thats not a good argument and won't get you loyal customers, i've spent thousands over the years, been here since Generation 3 came out and honestly i feel Daz is just getting greedy now

It's not double, actually.

And yes, I'm not speaking in any official capacity. As a customer, I'm THRILLED. There have been sooo many products I've struggled to crossfit, trying to cobble together Legends armor on a male character or whatnot. or getting a cool uniform and trying to hammer out the V crotch. ugh.

Yes it is double, i broke down the pricing earlier Michael 9 mega bundle (12 items) base price $270.99 discount price $132.78, Michael 8 pro bundle (12 items) base price $134.95 discount price when i purchased $66.13 1 generation later the price has doubled

The Punch sale is applying to new releases, though - so you might be able to drop that another 10% or 20% depending on what, if anything, else you want.

Thank you for the suggestion Richard however as a purchaser even that amount of price drop does not make the bundle enticing for me, Oso i appreciate inflation is a thing but double the price is still not reasonable in my opinion

I am a buyer with limited funds and i have to look at what i find a reasonable price, i do not find this reasonable if it had been maybe around the $90 i might have purchased it, i also have to take into account money conversion rates, i appreciate the time and effort vendors sspend on making the products but i have to think with my wallet, and i'm increasingly finding myself priced out of the hobby and i'm sure im not the only one,  i have always used the bundles as good basis of items for each model, i can see the dark assassin would look great on one of your anthro characters (maybe a fox) but the price of the bundle means i don't purchase it, so now i have no outfit so when you release your next character i don't purchase it because i don't have the clothes for it, and so on, i have followed this hobby for more than 10 years and purchased way more items than i have ever used (so many picture ideas and not enough time) so this development makes me sad as i feel i will have to look for a cheaper way to spend my time.

I also appreciate this is my opinion and choice but you as vendors deserve to hear what your customers think even if i am just one lone voice

plasma_ring

leemoon_c43b45a114 said:

I didn't use Michael 9 at full strength, and I mixed a tiny bit of Toon Heroes and Growing Up in with him.  There's also some physique shaping going on with various morph add-ons.  Hair is the dForce Ultimate Buzzcut Hair, pants and boots are from The King's Guard Outfit, and the vest is from the dForce Dark Assassin outfit (with the shirt opacity turned off.)

Lee

I really like this, and I'm convinced to pick up the Toon Heroes morphs now. :D 

Timbales

Tobias said:

Oso3D said:

Regarding pricing, just a reminder, again, that all the content is effectively doubled since it easily and natively works for both masculine and feminine figures (plus nonbinary and others)

Here's Victoria 9 with Marty Mane hair ostensibly for Michael 9:

 

And since I rarely render females that argument is totally irrelavant to me.  It is ok for some of us to regret that we are being priced out of this hobby. 

Are you feeling priced out because you don't already have the things you need to render the images you want to create? or is it a feeling of missing out because this is the 'latest and greatest' and we're somewhat trained to always want that? I'm not asking to be snarky, it's a feeling I have learned to recognize in myself and really examine new purchases before I make them.

CHWT

Timbales said:

Tobias said:

Oso3D said:

Regarding pricing, just a reminder, again, that all the content is effectively doubled since it easily and natively works for both masculine and feminine figures (plus nonbinary and others)

Here's Victoria 9 with Marty Mane hair ostensibly for Michael 9:

 

And since I rarely render females that argument is totally irrelavant to me.  It is ok for some of us to regret that we are being priced out of this hobby. 

Are you feeling priced out because you don't already have the things you need to render the images you want to create? or is it a feeling of missing out because this is the 'latest and greatest' and we're somewhat trained to always want that? I'm not asking to be snarky, it's a feeling I have learned to recognize in myself and really examine new purchases before I make them.

Score !

Ron Knights

I'm a senior citizen, living on a limited, fixed income. Over recent years I've become more selective on what I buy at DAZ. I've bought a few Pro Packs, and rarely used many of the included items.

I won't buy the Michael 9 or Victoria 9 packs. I'll wait for "Real World" clothes.

ColinFrench

billyben_0077a25354 said:

A little render of the captaims coming back from their sucessful missions.

Cool render! What hair is Captain Mike wearing? Is it a G9 release I missed or an older hair?

FenixPhoenix

butterflyfish said:

Since we're talking about assests working for both male and female, I'm just curious about something. Are PAs including secondary materials for the opposite gender on their G9 characters? Like are they including male and female anatomical elements, and skins that could double as either gender? I could see how that would be a whole lot of extra work.

Can't speak for all PAs, but as a PA who always try to do things for both genders, I will be including support for both genders when I do skins. Right now I'm working with Nathy Designs on a female character (and her male counterpart is still a WIP) and we did the main skin neutral (no nipples) so you could even use it on monsters. Then via LIE, you decide whether to add female or male nipples and the belly button. And of course, we are supporting both genitals as well. The idea is to give as much flexibility as Generation 9 allows. BUT you can also imagine how much more extra work that entails. So I hope users will also take the time to check what each product includes to determine whether the price is fair or not. But those are my two cents :).

FenixPhoenix

leemoon_c43b45a114 said:

I didn't use Michael 9 at full strength, and I mixed a tiny bit of Toon Heroes and Growing Up in with him.  There's also some physique shaping going on with various morph add-ons.  Hair is the dForce Ultimate Buzzcut Hair, pants and boots are from The King's Guard Outfit, and the vest is from the dForce Dark Assassin outfit (with the shirt opacity turned off.)

Lee

Love your version of him, Lee!

petebabicki84

He looks like Oscar Isaac. I like it.

RAMWolff

leemoon_c43b45a114 said:

I didn't use Michael 9 at full strength, and I mixed a tiny bit of Toon Heroes and Growing Up in with him.  There's also some physique shaping going on with various morph add-ons.  Hair is the dForce Ultimate Buzzcut Hair, pants and boots are from The King's Guard Outfit, and the vest is from the dForce Dark Assassin outfit (with the shirt opacity turned off.)

Lee

He looks really cute Lee.  Reminds me a bit of Hiro 4 Realistic.   

butterflyfish

FenixPhoenix said:

butterflyfish said:

Since we're talking about assests working for both male and female, I'm just curious about something. Are PAs including secondary materials for the opposite gender on their G9 characters? Like are they including male and female anatomical elements, and skins that could double as either gender? I could see how that would be a whole lot of extra work.

Can't speak for all PAs, but as a PA who always try to do things for both genders, I will be including support for both genders when I do skins. Right now I'm working with Nathy Designs on a female character (and her male counterpart is still a WIP) and we did the main skin neutral (no nipples) so you could even use it on monsters. Then via LIE, you decide whether to add female or male nipples and the belly button. And of course, we are supporting both genitals as well. The idea is to give as much flexibility as Generation 9 allows. BUT you can also imagine how much more extra work that entails. So I hope users will also take the time to check what each product includes to determine whether the price is fair or not. But those are my two cents :).

Wow, that is a lot of work. Good luck!

Petra

Cdl_zt said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Cdl_zt said:

Oso3D said:

Cdl_zt said:

So the basic argument you have is that because both sexes can now use all clothing it's ok to charge double the price of a similar item from genesis 8 era, thats not a good argument and won't get you loyal customers, i've spent thousands over the years, been here since Generation 3 came out and honestly i feel Daz is just getting greedy now

It's not double, actually.

And yes, I'm not speaking in any official capacity. As a customer, I'm THRILLED. There have been sooo many products I've struggled to crossfit, trying to cobble together Legends armor on a male character or whatnot. or getting a cool uniform and trying to hammer out the V crotch. ugh.

Yes it is double, i broke down the pricing earlier Michael 9 mega bundle (12 items) base price $270.99 discount price $132.78, Michael 8 pro bundle (12 items) base price $134.95 discount price when i purchased $66.13 1 generation later the price has doubled

The Punch sale is applying to new releases, though - so you might be able to drop that another 10% or 20% depending on what, if anything, else you want.

Thank you for the suggestion Richard however as a purchaser even that amount of price drop does not make the bundle enticing for me, Oso i appreciate inflation is a thing but double the price is still not reasonable in my opinion

I am a buyer with limited funds and i have to look at what i find a reasonable price, i do not find this reasonable if it had been maybe around the $90 i might have purchased it, i also have to take into account money conversion rates, i appreciate the time and effort vendors sspend on making the products but i have to think with my wallet, and i'm increasingly finding myself priced out of the hobby and i'm sure im not the only one,  i have always used the bundles as good basis of items for each model, i can see the dark assassin would look great on one of your anthro characters (maybe a fox) but the price of the bundle means i don't purchase it, so now i have no outfit so when you release your next character i don't purchase it because i don't have the clothes for it, and so on, i have followed this hobby for more than 10 years and purchased way more items than i have ever used (so many picture ideas and not enough time) so this development makes me sad as i feel i will have to look for a cheaper way to spend my time.

I also appreciate this is my opinion and choice but you as vendors deserve to hear what your customers think even if i am just one lone voice

I do feel the same as you do.

I know the Vendors put a lot of work in their products, it is not something you just throw together, but, I have to think with my wallet in mind too and, real world expenses like food, gas, electricity... have gone up VERY much here in the UK.

Not only that, but I would love to be able to just grab what I like, from the Store, but these days I have to really budget for what I am buying.

This is, I am sure off, not just my reality.

 

 

Ildanach

No alternative eye colour materials included? Bit disappointed with M9.