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Nice to know...
thanks
Pen
The fitting room is not designed to be a one click conversion. Autofit was designed by EvilInnocence, the same people who created Crossdresser. Poser does provide all versions since P8 with a similar conversion solution to Autofit. It's called Wardrobe Wizard. Yes, if you want to use it to convert to and from non-included content, you need to purchase the add ons but that's only to be expected. Autofit does not support non-included content either.
The fitting room is not designed to be a one click conversion. Autofit was designed by EvilInnocence, the same people who created Crossdresser. Poser does provide all versions since P8 with a similar conversion solution to Autofit. It's called Wardrobe Wizard. Yes, if you want to use it to convert to and from non-included content, you need to purchase the add ons but that's only to be expected. Autofit does not support non-included content either.
This is true from what Satira has said that the fitting room is not set up that way...it would be nice to be able to buy autofit clones for a range of figures.
edited to fix quotes and clarify that I was talking about the fitting room.
Purchasable add-ons to make Auto-Fit more universally useful would be handy at times.
The main obstacle is the need to have the permission of the original figure's creator to copy its shape - RTEncoding isn't going to be acceptable to all.
Sorry. There was an extra end quote code I failed to remove. That comment was made by Male-M3dia, not me.
Since most of the clothing I have installed is for V4 anyway, and I am still using V4 as my main figure, I don't use the Fitting Room very often. However, I haven't found the Fitting Room to be that difficult, even though it's not "auto." By not being "auto," I find I have more control over the conversion. I didn't find that to be the case with autofit. But then ... autofit is only available in DS, so it's not really an option in Poser, is it?
The main problem I experienced converting clothing to V4 from previous versions of DAZ figures was with mesh that isn't welded which causes it to separate.
As I mentioned, the Morphing Tool does a fantastic job of fitting clothing to a morphed figure when the clothing doesn't have those morphs. The results using the Morphing Tool turns out better for me than other options I've used. The Morphing Tool Tighten Fit and Loosen Fit keeps the mesh (especially, things like buttons, buckles, etc.), from being distorted which often happens when copying morphs or converting clothing, and it keeps wrinkles from being smoothed out. A very cool thing when the clothing needs to be fitted to a very bulky/heavy figure.
Like anything new, the Fitting Room requires a bit of a learning curve. I don't quite get why the need to learn how to use a tool is supposed to be a problem. But then, I love learning how to do things. Which is why I haven't been a word processor for decades and have been a technical editor (wastewater, geological, hazardous waste cleanup proposals and reports), a network administrator, and I am currently the lead analyst/programmer of a case management/electronic billing system.
Hi Satira, thanks for posting this...I did wonder about it when I watched the videos but wasn't sure if it would be as easy or not.Ok. I think I've preached enough about clothing conversion stuff in Poser.
Nice to know...
thanks
Pen
Not AutoFit but Poser has had Wardrobe Wizard since version 8. You would need to purchase the V4 add on from PhilC's site to convert for V4 and add ons for other non-Poser figures but you do have a similar method. Wardrobe Wizard was one of the first of the nearly one click conversion plugins. The Tailor and Clothes Convertor pre-date it but are stand alone apps. I've had good and not so good results from all of them.
And if you want your older figures supported, you have to show that support with your wallet, not forum posts.
I don't show support here with my wallet. With my wallet, I reward those who produce products I want to buy. And I have rewarded a ton of artists here. But not for "Genesis" 2.
If indeed, it is true that V6 is successful, then in my view, this is a sad day for all end users. This simply enables DAZ to continue the seemingly endless cycle of character development without serious regard to technical merit.
Don't kid yourself, there are many, many people out there who have supported Gen3, Gen4, and Genesis but who are increasingly dissatisfied with these product decisions.
I don't show support here with my wallet. With my wallet, I reward those who produce products I want to buy. And I have rewarded a ton of artists here. But not for "Genesis" 2.
If indeed, it is true that V6 is successful, then in my view, this is a sad day for all end users. This simply enables DAZ to continue the seemingly endless cycle of character development without serious regard to technical merit.
Don't kid yourself, there are many, many people out there who have supported Gen3, Gen4, and Genesis but who are increasingly dissatisfied with these product decisions.
I'm not. However you may be kidding yourself if you think technology stays in one place and that what is posted in this thread is the majority sentiment. People are buying the V6 stuff, considering it's at top of the list of top sellers:
http://www.daz3d.com/top-sellers/
I don't show support here with my wallet. With my wallet, I reward those who produce products I want to buy. And I have rewarded a ton of artists here. But not for "Genesis" 2.
If indeed, it is true that V6 is successful, then in my view, this is a sad day for all end users. This simply enables DAZ to continue the seemingly endless cycle of character development without serious regard to technical merit.
Don't kid yourself, there are many, many people out there who have supported Gen3, Gen4, and Genesis but who are increasingly dissatisfied with these product decisions.
I'm not. However you may be kidding yourself if you think technology stays in one place and that what is posted in this thread is the majority sentiment. People are buying the V6 stuff, considering it's at top of the list of top sellers:
http://www.daz3d.com/top-sellers/
Who says we want technology to stay in one place? Advancements in technology are what we are looking/hoping for. But we want technical advances that make sense to us as well as artists: advances that allow us to easily re-use the content we already have (e.g. UVs for previous figures), and to merge these new technologies into our workflow without having to spend a great deal of extra time and effort.
In the past two years I have seen many advancements to the V4 base made by people outside of DAZ. And there are a lot of people producing V4 content and spending money on that content. I am convinced the same could have occurred with the Genesis concept if properly advanced.
I look forward to spending my money on software and content I believe to be advancements. But I don't put Genesis 2 in that category. Is DAZ really listening to it's customer base (as well as it's artist base) when it does these sorts of thing? I don't think so.
If they have the largest release since V4, yep they have. It would seem that people have more of a connection with the female shape than the androgynous one.
If they have the largest release since V4, yep they have. It would seem that people have more of a connection with the female shape than the androgynous one.
Oh, people do?
(And if the V6/G2F launch is going so well, which I'm still skeptical about, that begs the question: why is a figure that, aside from a few minor improvements, is essentially a severely stripped-down version of Genesis1 suddenly so popular? Maybe because getting rid of Genesis2's androgynous/masculine/juvenile capabilities makes it more sexually attractive to heterosexual men? That's a marketing failure, not a technical one -- and the solution's better marketing, not deliberately reducing the versatility of the product.)
Oh, people do?
(And if the V6/G2F launch is going so well, which I'm still skeptical about, that begs the question: why is a figure that, aside from a few minor improvements, is essentially a severely stripped-down version of Genesis1 suddenly so popular? Maybe because getting rid of Genesis2's androgynous/masculine/juvenile capabilities makes it more sexually attractive to heterosexual men? That's a marketing failure, not a technical one -- and the solution's better marketing, not deliberately reducing the versatility of the product.)
Please don't argue your emotions as facts. The fact is a lot of people bought the V6.
I had a chance to play with Gen2 and I hate to admit it, but it's easier to make the female shapes from it. And it's not as limited as you think it is. I think you're doing the reverse.... now that you see a female shape, that it's limited and not as functional. That's certainly not true if you're being creative about it.
If they have the largest release since V4, yep they have. It would seem that people have more of a connection with the female shape than the androgynous one.
Please allow me to provide one more way to look at this from a technical/advancement perspective. Whenever we look at some new technology, most us do not just accept it at face value. We do some calculation of the benefit vs. the cost and then decide to buy if we believe the benefit outweighs the cost. The "advancement" will not always win out when the analysis is done.
For example, many years ago, in the olden days, there was a major battle between OS/2 and Windows. Now, I happened to be on a team evaluating both. Everyone on the team, without exception, came to the conclusion that OS/2 was technically a better operating system from top to bottom. But we also determined, with some exceptions, that Windows would be our choice because the benefit, when looked at from all angles, clearly outweighed the cost of implementing OS/2.
When DAZ and others are deciding what technologies to advance, I hope that there is some reasonable analysis of the cost/benefit from a customer perspective. Because, if it is primarily done with DAZ/artist input, in the long run, the customer is also going to weigh in by withholding dollars.
Those who are enamored with V6 need to be also thinking about what is coming down the road. Is everyone prepared for the enormous cost (time and money) cost for M6, H6, A6, F6, S6, V7, M7, A7, H7, F7, S7, V8, M8, S8, A8, H8, F8, S8, etc., etc,. etc....
Not only this, but artists are continually tied up producing content for the new base figures. What about customers who want advancements in the software technology? Add-ons and plug-ins? Items to improve our workflow and our renders (try and convince me that many consumers of art will know the difference between V5 and V6)? Who will produce these when the experienced are busy working on stuff for Genesis 2?
Please allow me to provide one more way to look at this from a technical/advancement perspective. Whenever we look at some new technology, most us do not just accept it at face value. We do some calculation of the benefit vs. the cost and then decide to buy if we believe the benefit outweighs the cost. The "advancement" will not always win out when the analysis is done.
For example, many years ago, in the olden days, there was a major battle between OS/2 and Windows. Now, I happened to be on a team evaluating both. Everyone on the team, without exception, came to the conclusion that OS/2 was technically a better operating system from top to bottom. But we also determined, with some exceptions, that Windows would be our choice because the benefit, when looked at from all angles, clearly outweighed the cost of implementing OS/2.
When DAZ and others are deciding what technologies to advance, I hope that there is some reasonable analysis of the cost/benefit from a customer perspective. Because, if it is primarily done with DAZ/artist input, in the long run, the customer is also going to weigh in by withholding dollars.
Those who are enamored with V6 need to be also thinking about what is coming down the road. Is everyone prepared for the enormous cost (time and money) cost for M6, H6, A6, F6, S6, V7, M7, A7, H7, F7, S7, V8, M8, S8, A8, H8, F8, S8, etc., etc,. etc....
Not only this, but artists are continually tied up producing content for the new base figures. What about customers who want advancements in the software technology? Add-ons and plug-ins? Items to improve our workflow and our renders (try and convince me that many consumers of art will know the difference between V5 and V6)? Who will produce these when the experienced are busy working on stuff for Genesis 2?
So are you saying all those people that bought it didn't do their research? And more importantly DAZ didn't?
I think the sales will disagree with your assessment.
I'm not saying I'm wild about the split, but after working with the mesh I can see the difference between that and working with Gen 1. There's a lot more going on under the hood as well which are improvements as well.
It's really up to the person to decide what they want to support, so if the split is going to make overall improvement in the genders, then I look forward to M6 as what I do really revolves around working with a really good male product.
My emotions are facts -- they exist, they're a large part of what I express in my art, and how I feel about a product line informs my purchasing decisions. Ignore that at your peril. (Financial peril -- that wasn't a physical threat.)
.
That's the part you're missing, because once again you're looking at a single shape, thinking that's all it can be. If you're learned anything from Genesis 1, you know that wouldn't be the case. Genesis 2 can become all those things as well including Genesis 1, it just doesn't have the androgenous shape as a starting point.
I'm not here to convince you of the use. However, for a lot of people they've found a use for it, and the sales reflect that. I've played around with it and I can see it can be everything Genesis 1 can be. I'm just not as emotionally locked into something, that I can't see advantages once I actaully get my hands on it.
...chiming in for a moment since I saw this at the top of the thread list.
Limited cross compatibility without the need of additional utilities for features that were once included, and without having to go through a lot of extra steps and spend a lot of extra time setting up clones to try and make it do what the original already could. That's not based on emotion, that's practicality and in my book, an efficient workflow that suits the individual's needs. Some don't mind all the extra hoops or laying out 100s more to make the new figure work for them. That's perfectly fine and I'm not going to say they made a bad choice if it really does work for them.
For people like Kick Air and myself it doesn't
My main reason for being in this are the stories I like to tell, the main one of which involves characters that G2F cannot handle (without several expansions/versions yet to be released and G2M as well). I'm not going to stop my work to mess around trying to make this new figure fit my needs when I already have several of my characters which I created with Genesis already saved. Before Genesis, I spent years trying to perfect an older child to teen character using Gen4 because there was none. I got pretty darn close, though clothing fits were a royal pain as there was little clothing content available that properly fitted that particular type of physique.
Genesis with both GenX and YT5 changed that. What took me weeks of struggling at times, I could accomplish an a matter of a few evenings after work. Clothing fits, even of Gen4 content, were also a lot better (finally could use the Teen Ashly top without it distorting in the chest area as it was really designed for the more "buxom" V4).
I totally agree with Kick Air, the few new features G2F may offer do not outweigh the simple and elegant versatility we currently have and enjoy with the original, once "groundbreaking" Genesis figure (which apparently is now "yesterday's news"). There are people still using Gen4, still using Gen3. Heck one former member on the forums here who primarily used the original Poser Woman ("Posette") and did some very nice work with her that made even Vicky4 look like a stiff mannequin.
What was it someone told me once? "It's not the tools but how you use them that counts?" Excellent words and ones that made me see the true value in what I already have. Shoot lately I've been working on scenes with Aiko3 and the Xin Xin character (in 4.6) and find it most enjoyable. Isn't that what we should be getting from this?
I still have not DL'd G2F and have no interest in purchasing the basic Morph Bundle as it really doesn't meet my current needs.
---two more Zlotys worth.
Ahhh....no problem. I had a problem with the quotes also.
Oh, people do?
(And if the V6/G2F launch is going so well, which I'm still skeptical about, that begs the question: why is a figure that, aside from a few minor improvements, is essentially a severely stripped-down version of Genesis1 suddenly so popular? Maybe because getting rid of Genesis2's androgynous/masculine/juvenile capabilities makes it more sexually attractive to heterosexual men? That's a marketing failure, not a technical one -- and the solution's better marketing, not deliberately reducing the versatility of the product.)
Please don't argue your emotions as facts. The fact is a lot of people bought the V6.
I had a chance to play with Gen2 and I hate to admit it, but it's easier to make the female shapes from it. And it's not as limited as you think it is. I think you're doing the reverse.... now that you see a female shape, that it's limited and not as functional. That's certainly not true if you're being creative about it.
I think that you need to realise that many people who bought V6 aren't necessarily happy satisfied customers.
I bought it...am I happy with it? NO!
Have I returned it no, because I wanted to give it a chance to grow on me. So far that hasn't happened.
Have I bought anything for her only one product that I really wanted to show support for the vendors commitment to continue making gen 1 products so I bought the bundle.
Please allow me to provide one more way to look at this from a technical/advancement perspective. Whenever we look at some new technology, most us do not just accept it at face value. We do some calculation of the benefit vs. the cost and then decide to buy if we believe the benefit outweighs the cost. The "advancement" will not always win out when the analysis is done.
For example, many years ago, in the olden days, there was a major battle between OS/2 and Windows. Now, I happened to be on a team evaluating both. Everyone on the team, without exception, came to the conclusion that OS/2 was technically a better operating system from top to bottom. But we also determined, with some exceptions, that Windows would be our choice because the benefit, when looked at from all angles, clearly outweighed the cost of implementing OS/2.
When DAZ and others are deciding what technologies to advance, I hope that there is some reasonable analysis of the cost/benefit from a customer perspective. Because, if it is primarily done with DAZ/artist input, in the long run, the customer is also going to weigh in by withholding dollars.
Those who are enamored with V6 need to be also thinking about what is coming down the road. Is everyone prepared for the enormous cost (time and money) cost for M6, H6, A6, F6, S6, V7, M7, A7, H7, F7, S7, V8, M8, S8, A8, H8, F8, S8, etc., etc,. etc....
Not only this, but artists are continually tied up producing content for the new base figures. What about customers who want advancements in the software technology? Add-ons and plug-ins? Items to improve our workflow and our renders (try and convince me that many consumers of art will know the difference between V5 and V6)? Who will produce these when the experienced are busy working on stuff for Genesis 2?
So are you saying all those people that bought it didn't do their research? And more importantly DAZ didn't?
I think the sales will disagree with your assessment.
I'm not saying I'm wild about the split, but after working with the mesh I can see the difference between that and working with Gen 1. There's a lot more going on under the hood as well which are improvements as well.
It's really up to the person to decide what they want to support, so if the split is going to make overall improvement in the genders, then I look forward to M6 as what I do really revolves around working with a really good male product.
*snorts* research, what research we weren't provided with any facts to base our purchases on. Many consumers probably bought because they went ' ooh, shiny' . Some of us really are addicted to buying the newest latest thing just to say we have.
Show me where DAZ provided information. What they provided was a thread with shiny pretty pictures.
In regards to M6 I doubt that he will get a lot of clothing especially as he can't share or will he be able to?
Oh yes just another piece of information we haven't be provided yet....
I would hope, even expect, that there will be clone shapes to AutoFit G2F to G2M and vice versa, though I have no inside knowledge.
I would hope, even expect, that there will be clone shapes to AutoFit G2F to G2M and vice versa, though I have no inside knowledge.
Hi Richard,
It comes back down to the fact yet again that we haven't been told. : (
I was hoping for more compatibility between the new figure and the original.
We are expected to invest in this new figure without having all the facts available to us so that we can make smart choices that suit us.
I am very emotional about this and that is a fact. It's also a fact that for the first time ever I have provided negative feedback to DAZ about this whole process and the lack of information provided by DAZ employees via the help desk. I asked that my post to them go to Jim Thornton as I would really like him to read it. I'm not sure that I will get a response but he may yet surprise me. I hope he does...
It may be that DAZ are still selling huge amounts and are happy with this.
I find it interesting in contrast that the forums are quieter than I have ever seen them before. If you drive off all the old guard who is going to help the new users when they get stuck...community volunteers only?
Personally I have gone down from spending lots to spending very little. This may be a drop in the ocean to DAZ and they may have lots of new users who are quite happy to buy the latest shiny new toy.
The only threads that I can see myself being active in at the moment is the Shader Mixer List and any threads that provide information on content creation and using DS.
Personally I find myself visiting another forum more and checking the latest developments on a new figure over there. Maybe this new figure can provide what I can't find here.
I am very much a DS user. I cannot get my head around Poser and I have tried previously. I love using DS!
That will not change. Nor will I pout and post a goodbye thread and say I'm leaving. That would only hurt myself as I wish to keep up with what happens with DS.
I will post in a polite manner my thoughts and feelings about the changes. Maybe it wont achieve much, but it will certainly allow me to vent and get it out of my system.
Hugs
Pen
Well if you don't have the information, then why be negative about it? That really doesn't make sense to me. That's how speculation gets really bad. It hasn't stopped being genesis just because you're seeing something different as the base.
Well I've yet to jump through that many hoops using V6, and my experience with genesis goes back to the beta and before GenX. My first character used the transfer tool (which has come a long way from what it was). Sure I paid $10 for the V4 shape for gen2, but then I had access to V4's library again and was able to do promos fairly quickly. But it's really not trying to eliminate Gen1, they can exist together.. although I'll probably carry my personal characters over and what I did so far was far more easy than what i did to transfer it from Gen4.
Well if you don't have the information, then why be negative about it? That really doesn't make sense to me. That's how speculation gets really bad. It hasn't stopped being genesis just because you're seeing something different as the base.
The only information I have has been provided by my own experience and other consumers experiences. I have not written any speculation. I have written what I believe are facts. I notice you didn't provide any links to information provided by DAZ...
...just that the majority of figure oriented content lately is pretty much geared G2F/V6 rather the Genesis Classic (save for April's hair updates which fit both) and because it is a truly "different" figure it is incompatible with the original.
However I will say there is a a glimmer of light on the horizon as Sickle Yield is creating a fully modelled G2F clone for fitting V6/G2F clothing to the original Genesis. So yes, in that respect I will admit, the original still has some mileage in it. I see that as a much better investment based on the work I have already done and my creative needs.
*Sigh*
Not buying anymore wonderful things to make garbage work.
Just not.
Well if you don't have the information, then why be negative about it? That really doesn't make sense to me. That's how speculation gets really bad. It hasn't stopped being genesis just because you're seeing something different as the base.
If DAZ wanted less negativity and speculation they would release enough info on G2M/M6 to reassure those that expect the worst from DAZ. It is not like people don't have good reasons - the new store still has major issues after a year. And while DAZ assures us they are working as hard as they can on it, we get stupid rotating pictures on ads. How about taking the time spent on that and fixing the store! Smileys have not worked in the forums for weeks. Fixing that is not asking for progress, it is asking for normal maintenance.
If DAZ wanted less negativity and speculation they would release enough info on G2M/M6 to reassure those that expect the worst from DAZ. It is not like people don't have good reasons - the new store still has major issues after a year. And while DAZ assures us they are working as hard as they can on it, we get stupid rotating pictures on ads. How about taking the time spent on that and fixing the store! Smileys have not worked in the forums for weeks. Fixing that is not asking for progress, it is asking for normal maintenance.
I don't see them releasing the info, much like they didn't for M4 or M5.
Still this isn't stopping you from using what you have, so I still don't see the need for speculating or flying off the handle with what I've seen in the forum.