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I think DAZ thinks they've already told us. I don't know if you missed this or not, as the page from the Victoria 6 link at the top of the store page does not work in all browsers and it keeps changing, but I was able to get it to display in Firefox and this is what it says when you expand the bullet points:
"Some key advancements with the Genesis 2 based Victoria 6 include:
Morphing
The concept of morphing has been advanced further in the Genesis 2 product line. Genesis enabled a figure to be morphed little by little toward a child, a monster, a supermodel, and muscle-bound warrior, or even an alien, But Genesis 2, with more points of articulation, more polygons in the figures, and male and female specific base allows you to really sculpt Victoria 6, and any Genesis 2 figure into more detailed, more articulate, and more gender specific forms.
Male & Female Bases
The male and female specific bases not only allow for more masculine and feminine figures, but allow clothing to be designed more specifically for one or the other, rather than having to fit both. This makes for much sexier, and real-world like attires that drape, hang, and hug where they should without stretching.
Increased Details
With over 2000 more polygons than even the Genesis base had, the detail levels on some of the most critical body parts, like faces, feet, hands, as well as knee and elbow joints produces a much more realistic end product.
Articulation
No matter how good a figure looks, it has to move right. It has to react well with its environment in a realistic way. With Genesis 2 changes in level of articulation is one of the most significant updates to the base. Specifically, this includes increases in the individual movement of ears, toes, breasts, body joints and torso. As well as reworked weight mapping to show the effects of theses movements, and the gravity they happen in.
Facial Expressions
In order to produce more realistic facial movements and expressions Genesis 2 includes a dynamic and movable jaw as well as significantly increased facial polygons and a new eye reflection mesh.
Compatibility
Due to consistency of key body parts and shapes, such as feet users are able to utilize content and accessories intended for not only the Genesis 2 females, but to also leverage their Genesis content through the "auto fit" process. Additionally, due to the ability to go directly from a female base to another female base, the auto fit process for Victoria 4 content has also been improved."
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I purchased V6 and so far I'm quite happy with her ability to bend better and look good. I was never happy with Genesis 1 for anything other than fantasy creatures. M5 and V5 look too rounded and adrogynous to my eyes. The sharper, more natural angles of V4 are back in a much more render friendly package that works better in 3Delight because of the way the new tech works.
You may not see much new yet of V6 because some of us are busy and it is summer here in the Northern Hemisphere and there's much to do outside. Not to forget that in the US and Canada, many people have been on holiday. Some folks just got back to work this week. I expect to see more renders soon and hope I can post some when I finally get some time in the next couple weeks to render something really nice.
I too bought v6 and am quite pleased with her. I do wish for less sexualized pose sets as I find the pelvic tilt gives her a stylized quality which looks more pinup than I would like even when I'm trying for non-sexy look. bther than that, waiting for some older v6 characters.
What more information does anyone need? They have developed a new version of Genesis. It's called Genesis2. See the above post by Kevin Sanderson for more information about it.
In the meantime, keep on using what you have in DAZ Studio/Poser if that's what you want to do; be it Genesis, Gen4, Gen3 or whatever. Or if you choose, start using Genesis 2. For myself personally, I'm using both Genesis and Gen4 right now and I'm perfectly happy to wait and see what's going to happen with Genesis2.
So unless someone has some concrete evidence that there is an evil conspiracy going on, I'd appreciate it if people would find something else to rant and rave about.... like the cost of living, or wars, homeless people, or something important like that. All this constant guessing and speculation makes the forums really bad.
Unfortunately this happens in any forum. It's like people don't like something and when X company says it's doing well it's an automatic "NO THIS CAN'T BE BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE SAY THIS BLAH BLAH BLAH"
I honestly never understood (or still understand) what all the fuss is about. I have Genesis and Genesis 2. I use them both. I use genesis stuff on Genesis 2. Genesis 2 doesn't stop me from enjoying or buying older generation stuff.
Now I just need to wait for Male M3dia to release Genesis 2 characters. I own like, half their genesis figures I think already lol >.>
When I misquoted this I was engaged in some pm's with someone from DAZ. They took the time to explain to me the following
I just wanted to clear that up in the interest of pursuing fact rather than fiction.
...Due to consistency of key body parts and shapes, such as feet users are able to utilize content and accessories intended for not only the Genesis 2 females, but to also leverage their Genesis content through the "auto fit" process. Additionally, due to the ability to go directly from a female base to another female base, the auto fit process for Victoria 4 content has also been improved."
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I purchased V6 and so far I'm quite happy with her ability to bend better and look good. I was never happy with Genesis 1 for anything other than fantasy creatures. M5 and V5 look too rounded and adrogynous to my eyes. The sharper, more natural angles of V4 are back in a much more render friendly package that works better in 3Delight because of the way the new tech works.
You may not see much new yet of V6 because some of us are busy and it is summer here in the Northern Hemisphere and there's much to do outside. Not to forget that in the US and Canada, many people have been on holiday. Some folks just got back to work this week. I expect to see more renders soon and hope I can post some when I finally get some time in the next couple weeks to render something really nice.
I had seen it but it hasn't really answered the questions that I personally had about the product.
I'm pleased for you and others that you are happy with the new figure. I'm happy for you to mention that in your posts.
Please do me the courtesy of allowing me to post politely(which is what I have done) my own opinions also. This is not aimed at Kevin or anyone else specifically. Just a general request.
Sounds to me like genus envy :D
Unfortunately this happens in any forum. It's like people don't like something and when X company says it's doing well it's an automatic "NO THIS CAN'T BE BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE SAY THIS BLAH BLAH BLAH"
I honestly never understood (or still understand) what all the fuss is about. I have Genesis and Genesis 2. I use them both. I use genesis stuff on Genesis 2. Genesis 2 doesn't stop me from enjoying or buying older generation stuff.
Now I just need to wait for Male M3dia to release Genesis 2 characters. I own like, half their genesis figures I think already lol >.>
The fuss is that we're loosing versatility that didn't need to be sacrificed for the sake of improved realistic detail; realistic detail that could have very well existed on an openly unisex mesh for all content made for it usable on both genders, which in turn helps reduce the ungodly scarcity of male-compatible clothing and support.
I'm not so much angry at Genesis 2 now that I know that I can mod it to be a unisex figure again because of the Genesis 1 clone. However, this not only says that we are, in fact, being screwed over a bit, it doesn't quench the feared reality that no matter what PA tries to reassure us, that Genesis 1 will become abandoned technology after the arrival of G2M; G2M itself won't receive much support beyond the contents of it's Pro Bundles; and that child support will barely receive a passing glance because of the way the market it in 3D art, which again, a unisex figure, with a special child morph like the one G1 has, helps reduce. Sure we all know that you can use previous Generation figures next to G2, and G2 can take G1 clothing via autofit, but if you want to use clothing from any generation previous to that on the new technology, or use support like morphs, character UVs or be able to mix and match your figure with the shapes of your favorite DAZ character without having to consult a tedious mod tutorial, you'll have to pray to the deity of your understanding that MallenLane makes an Iconic Shape for it.
Not only that, but something some people are also afraid of is that the advent of Genesis 2 will come trumpeting in a dark cloud of previous generation content vaulting right behind it, just the one that came with the advent of Genesis 1 for Gens 1, 2 and some of 3...
People are passionate about Genesis (because they love the figure) and they have a right to ask questions and reservations when DAZ suddenly springs a new figure on them which seems to contradict alot of what they loved in the original figure... was released suddenly...and with no explanation from DAZ as to why it was done.
I also feel somewhat dubious of remarks that we the hobbyists are not really core to DAZ and there are all these hordes of education and business users who are the new target users. I wonder about that... if that is so... why are they not demanding proper documentation from DAZ as they get from other professional software.. .. why aren't they asking questions on these forums or on special forums set up just for them elsewhere... who and where are these invisible crowd of users??
The other disappointment with V6 G2F is NO - nada effort to close the gap with Poser... nothing except DSON which is already in Genesis 1. If DAZ wanted to release sex specific models... make 1 that works directly in Poser and 1 for DAZ like the new bizzaro DAZ company will next month. That way they could have a Poser V6 and save Genesis 2 as the next real advancement unisex figure it should be in the future.
It also makes people feel nervous when the new improved female figure does not support the newest female textures such as A5, S5, Hitomi etc and not forgetting the apparent intention to drop support for V4 textures (albeit thankfully restored via purchasable add-on).
This does not give out the vibe of giving more options, it sends the signal that customers are expected to start over.
I like V6 enough to use her for pin-up work, but much more can be done to reassure loyal customers that this is more than just a tweak here and there to justify a whole wave of fresh purchases... Unless, of course, V6 is purely designed as a cash cow, in which case I would understand why communication with the customer base has been so abysmally poor.
Did you not see this:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25324/
Gen 2 becomes everything from a child to teenager, much better than what was in Gen1. And that Gen1 child was a mess to morph... I tried and gave up.
..umm as figure based content goes, there's been more G2F/V6 releases than for Genesis "Classic".
Clearly the handwriting is on the wall. Does this say anything to anyone?
...+1
..umm as figure based content goes, there's been more G2F/V6 releases than for Genesis "Classic".
Clearly the handwriting is on the wall. Does this say anything to anyone?
Not really. I picked up that male skateboarding set and the kilts, and the V5 outfit from last week. Doesn't look like it stopped to me.
Glad I found this thread. She's beautiful and has some great new features. I picked her up but don't plan to buy more or install her for some time.
When I first saw her in the store I wasn't excited in fact it depressed me. Somehow the timing seemed off. Too soon perhaps.
I love Genesis truly and it will take much more time before Genesis can be pried from me.
So you're saying we should be happy to pay a vendor for a functionality we got with the free genesis base last time? Explicitly the ability to morph the figure from an adult to a child.
Don't get me wrong I think Zev's product looks great!
That's not the point...the point is reduced functionality in the base figure and if you created a list of what each figure can do when comparing base to base I know which one I think gives me better value.
Did you not see this:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25324/
Gen 2 becomes everything from a child to teenager, much better than what was in Gen1. And that Gen1 child was a mess to morph... I tried and gave up.
...yeah, but try to apply the YT5 textures without having to purchase the V4 to G2F utility. Sorry, but the V4 maps were a part of the original Genesis and now we have to purchase that feature from a third party. The fact that Daz decided not to support this says to me they don't give a rodent's behind about compatibility with older figures. No, they want us to buy everything over again. In this sense, Genesis "Classic" was way too much of a success as individual artists could create their own characters and fit most older clothing rather than have to purchase all new gender/figure specific content like we had to do in the past.
It's a faggin' "bottom line" issue we are dealing with here and it began with the merger in 2010. Just how much of a hand does Gizmos have in Daz policy? The choice of site software (which according to sources I know was a bad idea) that slienated a lot of long time membes, The elimination of many of the perks members had like Vouchers, extra PC discounts, and "straightforward" sales with no strings attached. The PC has been watered down horribly to the point of becoming a bad investment for those who have been here for years. This is just one more reason why us longtime Daz "faithful' have been just bit irritated by all this..
Part of me shudders about what Studio 5.x will bring.
Not really. I picked up that male skateboarding set and the kilts, and the V5 outfit from last week. Doesn't look like it stopped to me.
...no, for compare those few releases to the amount of G2F/V6ones to the same period. of time. Sorry, but in that respect the "new kid" wins hands down.
..and it will only get worse. C'mon the fact that Daz refused to support compatibility with their all time top selling figure (which is the UV map basis for most of the Gen 5 characters) has to say something. This is not innovation, this is gouging the customer base.
You know, before genesis, yeah you did have to buy everything again, including morphs. Gen2 you still have options to get your items converted even if V4 isn't the default UV. That mean vendors will texture to genesis and not to some Gen4 and you put it on genesis and get seams issues.
The site software, well they went from broken software to one they didn't know how to use. And sales, I won't speak to sales because that way off the topic... but obviously it's working because they haven't really reverted back... except for those painful chain sales from last year.
Genesis2 is new so naturally PA's will push content out for it. Once its established, and the fundamental base packages are out, the balance will be restored. Also with the new conversion tools EG genesis2 to Genesis1 content converters to come out, I do not see an issue.
I'm looking at the same things you are.
But here's the thing on the V4 UV... vendors would hedge their bets on V4/Genesis items without much effort in the Genesis. You load it on your genesis character and notice all types of seams issues and flaws (and the morph isn't as good as the Gen4 version because you gotta tweak it after you converted it to get the detail back), so the genesis version is really the inferior part of product. Put the standard to something else, then you know that texture was made for Genesis, thus the quality gets focused on that.
So yeah, making the V4 UV nonstandard means Genesis get the attention, not Daz wants you to buy all your stuff over again.
+1
When I don't like a decision that's been made, it's not quite so bad if you understand the logic behind that decision... Genesis supports textures from previous generation (V4 etc), not all historic generations. Equally, Genesis 2 wasn't supporting V4 textures because they are from two generations back... This makes perfect sense - a decision I disagree with, but I could understand that logic - except that only V5 gets support, so it just doesn't feel like a "proper" transition.
(I don't exactly have a lot of A5 S5 textures, but the ones I do have a really nice)
That having been said, if there are going to be updated shapes that will be added to G2F the way V4 was (and I do love the refinements to the V4 shape), they may well be genuine improvements rather than buying the same all over again, but we'll just have to wait and see, because there sure isn't any informative communication coming out of DAZ HQ that I can see.
In a way I personally like that Genesis2 uses primarily generation 5 UV, I have spent hours and hours converting V4 and M4 textures to V5/M5. The seam issues and distortions where horrible with gen4 uv on genesis1. It also seemed many new products called "genesis or M5/V5" we're using generation 4 UVs, it drove me mad discovering my newly bought "V5" character was V4 uv! While optimization was my goal for converting/modifying textures to gen5 UV, I also needed all my characters in a unified UV because I use Garibaldi Hair system, and the hair distribution maps need to match up (having all males M5 and all females V5 uv allows me to easily swap hairstyles between their gender.) but at the same time I can see why the lack of native gen4 UV upsets people who have heaps of texture sets.
I am really happy with the improvements to the G2F figure, there's a nice improvement to the level of detail, and it's equally great to have an eye reflection surface! The missing eye surface on genesis1 really annoyed me. The jaw and toe control is a nice addition. The hands and feet certainly stand out over Genesis 1 for me. What I am seeing with G2F is that the creator has been doing research into what 3rd party artists have been releasing to improve genesis1 figure, such as feet/toe control, several shaping morphs which never existed outside 3rd party morph packs, breast/glute control. With more verts/polygons aging detail morphs really become more feasible.
I've recreated several of my female characters side by side with genesis1 and I personally see a great improvement. That's not to say genesis1 isn't my preferred figure (it's still my primary model) but I think as I gather more morph packs it'll certainly be a valuable asset for my creations.
My hope now is that G2M/M6 isn't far away, and I also hope that the male counterpart receives as equally care and attention to level of detail as G2F.
Ill be thrilled if Zev throws in a shape shift pack for G2M **wink wink** : P
He will have one. Will have to retrain my brain to work on a male shape lol..Some morphs can be brought over from the Female version since they are generic in areas, and most will have to be Gender specific. But until we get him in our hands I have no idea about compatability yet lol.
Me too! I really do hope M6 is not too far away. I can't wait to see how M6 looks. =-)
Zev you're my hero! : D
Yeah serene same here, if anything, it's been pushing me hard to refine my males (genesis1) in detail an definition to get them to look right when they stand at genesis 2 females side. My scenes with the two together makes the males look under defined lol with luck, genesis 2 male base will be a more average sort of build. I expect M6 will be muscle bound "idealized build" but it can be real tedious creating fully morph dialed characters from a heroically built base, many of my characters are on or below 50% value of M5 or V5 currently with genesis1
If M6/Genesis2male is as good as the female version, I probably remake Aldrak and Kielan.. maybe even Inferno. Time will tell I suppose, I do hope it doesn't come too soon though.. my poor economy is still screaming since the female came *sheepish smile*
The only thing I am not impressed with, even slightly disapointed with to be honest, is the genitals. Since I do like to make nude females (and males) I do want genitals that actually look real, unfortunately, the ones that came with v6/V6 bundle/genesis2female... does not (in my opinion)
So I hope the male one looks more natural in that aspect and that the female one perhaps either get a bit of a upgrade to that part or there come a skin that looks better down there than the ones that came with the bundle (haven't bought any of the released skins yet, so don't know how they look)
What DAZ really needs to do is come out with a totally new character for each gender that is more average. I would be more receptive to this than porting over Stephanie and David.
I also really desperately nee male expression sets. The David 5 ones are close, but having seen the ones for g2, I really want something comparable!
I don't think the different Stephanies and Davids have been ports, if by that you mean conversions or even reworkings of the original datasets.
...in a way I would actually find that more useful too and maybe even get me interested (provided I wouldn't have to go out and purchase a bunch of [Character] to G/2 M/F expansions to make Autofit and other textures work).
Personally, I do prefer David over Michael. I like his proportions and the fact I can use him without having to purchase character morphs/mats because Mike tends to be more "hairy" (not very good for doing elves or pre/young teens). It's easier to add hair to the character (LAMH or Garibaldi Express). If it is part of the Mat, then it cannot be removed, thus requiring purchase of additional characters which have "cleaner" skin maps.
If they do offer a more average male character it should have the option to turn on/off body hair and stubble or provide an alternate base skin mat that is "clean".
Loved Steph4 because like David, I felt she had better proportions than Vicky. She seemed more like a normal woman (out of the box only something like 5'4") rather than a tall leggy supermodel. She also had nice proportioning morphs and expansions that finally made it easier to create a preteen to young teen character (which didn't exist in Gen4). Steph5 on the other hand was a bit of a disappointment as there were no added morphs, just the three basic body shapes.
To make a good average female character, it should include improved breast morphing that can be dialed flat with no distortion. There should also be better morphs for "age shaping" of the head and body (that goes for males as well) so it could be used to develop a younger or more petite/lithe character with.
Both should also have the "universal" body shapes like the Original Genesis does.
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On the subject of V4 UV and Genesis characters, I will agree in so far that using it for Gen5 characters did seem a bit odd (especially for YT Justin, a male character) when there already was one for Genesis.