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Please allow me to provide one more way to look at this from a technical/advancement perspective. Whenever we look at some new technology, most us do not just accept it at face value. We do some calculation of the benefit vs. the cost and then decide to buy if we believe the benefit outweighs the cost. The "advancement" will not always win out when the analysis is done.
For example, many years ago, in the olden days, there was a major battle between OS/2 and Windows. Now, I happened to be on a team evaluating both. Everyone on the team, without exception, came to the conclusion that OS/2 was technically a better operating system from top to bottom. But we also determined, with some exceptions, that Windows would be our choice because the benefit, when looked at from all angles, clearly outweighed the cost of implementing OS/2.
When DAZ and others are deciding what technologies to advance, I hope that there is some reasonable analysis of the cost/benefit from a customer perspective. Because, if it is primarily done with DAZ/artist input, in the long run, the customer is also going to weigh in by withholding dollars.
Those who are enamored with V6 need to be also thinking about what is coming down the road. Is everyone prepared for the enormous cost (time and money) cost for M6, H6, A6, F6, S6, V7, M7, A7, H7, F7, S7, V8, M8, S8, A8, H8, F8, S8, etc., etc,. etc....
Not only this, but artists are continually tied up producing content for the new base figures. What about customers who want advancements in the software technology? Add-ons and plug-ins? Items to improve our workflow and our renders (try and convince me that many consumers of art will know the difference between V5 and V6)? Who will produce these when the experienced are busy working on stuff for Genesis 2?
So are you saying all those people that bought it didn't do their research? And more importantly DAZ didn't?
I think the sales will disagree with your assessment.
I'm not saying I'm wild about the split, but after working with the mesh I can see the difference between that and working with Gen 1. There's a lot more going on under the hood as well which are improvements as well.
It's really up to the person to decide what they want to support, so if the split is going to make overall improvement in the genders, then I look forward to M6 as what I do really revolves around working with a really good male product.
Who knows what calculations DAZ is making. Given what I have witnessed in the past two years, I really don't have much regard for decision making at DAZ.
Look, everyone knows that a technical advance often means some disruption in the workflows. However, what seems to be missing from the DAZ equation is the balance between some form of technical change and disruption. As evidence, I present the web site fiasco from a year ago. It took many, many months for users to regain the capability that we had before the fiasco. Companies that are really good at understanding the importance of meeting customer want/need are often those who can provide technical advance and still continually improve workflow with little or no disruption. Whose interest was really being served when that web site launched (I am fully aware that the mess is now fixed)?
As an example, let's look at Adobe. Photoshop has long been criticized for having an interface that is very difficult to use. At some point, Adobe fully understood what this means to their users, hence, to their potential for future profits. So, they decided to invest in improving the interface for users and it has gotten better over the past few iterations. Adobe appears to understand that technical advancement can also include improvements to workflow.
I have said this before. The Genesis concept I bought was the one pushed by DAZ two years ago: a gender-less mesh that could morph into almost anything. The new approach takes a step back to the old approach of a new mesh for each gender (and we'll see, perhaps for each of various sub-forms). If DAZ has, at some point, come to the conclusion that the original Genesis approach was not entirely effective, then they shouldn't have created a character that wasted our time and money in the past two years. They should have done the proper due diligence and provided Genesis 2 in the first place. In software development, we know from painful experience that the earlier in the development cycle that a defect is detected, the lower the cost. Defects found after launch are exponentially more expensive than defects found during the analysis and/or design phase.
I don't know what motivates people to buy V6. For those with significant time and money investment in previous characters, there is obviously going to be a significant amount of re-investment to add all the new stuff now and the new stuff coming down the line (isn't the re-investment what DAZ is really counting on?). We have already seen people investing time to find workarounds for UV incapability, lack of Genesis morphs, etc. If they see the technical or some other benefit outweighing the cost, more power to them. A lot us don't.
I don't think the different Stephanies and Davids have been ports, if by that you mean conversions or even reworkings of the original datasets.
I was careless with my language. What I meant was start from scratch, with a totally new concept of character as opposed to recreating David or Stephanie for the new generation.
...@artistb3:
I fully hear you on this. I see little if anything regarding real "fixes" in the wings for some of the other core applications.
Yes supposedly Carrara has been recently updated, however mainly just to try and be compatible with Genesis and CMS. There are still bugs that need fixing, most notably the import function from Daz Studio (which worked fine in Carrara 6)
Hexagon has been sitting for over five years without a significant upgrade or fixes to nagging bugs.
Bryce is still 32 bit.
Daz Studio still does not offer "open ended" cloth dynamics (e.g. a "Cloth Room/Tab") where users can develop their own dynamic sims rather than just have to settle for pre-created dynamic clothing content made with a very expensive software suite geared more for the professional fashion design industry.
As to plugins, most of the responsibility for updating those has to do with individual creators/vendors than with Daz unless they have been bought by Daz. The trouble with this is it seems each time there is a ".x" update to the Studio App, plugins suddenly don't work work correctly (or at all) and must be updated again. This understandably can become tedious from the creator/vendor's viewpoint and some simply give up revising their products anymore.
I was careless with my language. What I meant was start from scratch, with a totally new concept of character as opposed to recreating David or Stephanie for the new generation.
NO!!! O_O
I've always wondered why DAZ dropped support for Hexagon and Bryce. Isn't most of the DAZ 3D compatible made directly from Hexagon? I'm surprised it never made it past it's second version.
As for Bryce, I guess we can see why they might stop supporting it. After all, it's not as if there are people who are addicted to it to the point they need counseling... :3
...shhh, don't let chohole hear that. She wields quite the mean cudgel.
Actually I still like Bryce for environment generation. Daz Studio is woefully inadequate in that department and requires premade environments.. Unfortunately the bigger and more detailed, (like Andrey Pestryakov's Forest) the more load it places on system resources during rendering.
Bryce also has a lot of other nice tools that would be helpful in 4.6 such as replication and instancing. While there is a plugin that gives Daz instancing capability (Alessandro_AM's Infinito)it can quickly overload one's system resources.
If Daz updated Bryce to 64 bit, it would become a tremendous application as it could use a system's full memory resources to for rendering.
As to Hexagon, even on my new system it keeps freezing up forcing me to abort the app though Windows Task Manager. Most likely this is a memory allocation issue that could possibly be solved if it too were updated to 64 bit. I know that I constantly get warnings when trying to use any smoothing that it will make the application unstable. Makes little sense to have the feature if it rarely can be used.
Bryce, of course, is the best program of the lot. They actually made DS as a plug-in for Bryce, with a nice bridge so you can send stuff to Bryce in order to complete your images. :)
Bryce is pretty cool, but it crashes anytime I try to send a genesis figure to it.
Then don't send a genesis figure to it. :-)
(Sorry, it's an old joke. I mean no harm)
Seriously, I wish DAZ would give Bryce some attention rather than promoting Vue.
Then don't send a genesis figure to it. :-)
(Sorry, it's an old joke. I mean no harm)
Seriously, I wish DAZ would give Bryce some attention rather than promoting Vue.
Without wishing to derail this thread any further, if you are interested in Bryce you could come and visit us in the Bryce forum. Helpful threads, tutorial threads, render threads etc and we also have a monthly render challenge, with prizes to be won. Daz 3D is sponsoring it, so they are aware of the Bryce Community and what we are doing.
I was careless with my language. What I meant was start from scratch, with a totally new concept of character as opposed to recreating David or Stephanie for the new generation.
Not to dwell on this too much but David and Stephanie 5 are very different from their earlier counterparts, enough to say that they essentially ARE a new concept of character. They're refreshingly normal compared to Supermodel Vicky or bodybuilder Michael, and I should add that I was wonderfully surprised with the attention to detail lavished on both the figures themselves and the content released with them. The name's are really superfluous in my opinion.
New Genesis is here to stay whether you love it or hate it. I actually have Zev0 for restoring my desire to look a bit more closely at Genesis 2 with the upcoming aging morphs, so I think the future is looking a lot more rosy for Gen2.
So far I see nothing improved about this "Genesis 2" thing (which is just a pretty Victoria 4).
We are indeed losing versatility without reason. And paying much more in the process (I'm not actually). I never had troubles getting good, realistic characters with Genesis.
Lets agree to disagree :D ;)
...but were those created in Bryce (or Carrara) saved as .obj's and then imported?
Yes Daz had some limited modelling capability (primitives).
Yes there are a few "morphing" terrains that offer more flexibility, but these are still pre-constructed just like any other Daz content.
Yes you can drop a photo backrop into the scene as long as you have foreground items (or a plane primitive shadow catcher) that make up a "floor" so things don't look like they are floating in space.
What I am getting at is Daz in and of itself cannot create the nicely detailed, large scaled environments from scratch like Bryce, Carrara, or Vue are capable of. It was not designed for that, just like Bryce and Vue were not developed with character morphing and posing in mind.
Apologies for the one more derail but needed to reply to the question.
...carry on.
I would say, with D-Formers and shader displacement, theres plenty of things that can be done with DS primitives. Perhaps some things not as easy, quick or "automatic" as in programs you mentioned, but it is a possibility.
Oh, great, now I won't be able to think of them under any other name than 'bizarro DAZ' -.-
...ever since the merger in 2010. ; )
Yesterday the V6 Pro bundle was 50% off in my wishlist, and it looks like that was the last day for it now that Gia's here. Wonder if that'll be DAZ's next “Most successful release EVER!”?
LMAO!!!
...only to be replaced by Girl6 when she's released. ; )
Anyone want to open up a betting pool as to when that will be? I suspect next month. Maybe the 15th.
"There's a sucker born every minute. You just happened to be coming along at the right time."
~Tom Waits
That's how I feel about my, now mostly dead, relationship with DAZ in the end.
...so when is Aiko6 due to appear?
Then maybe, just maybe we'll finally see G2M.
I'm in. I'll take Labor Day weekend.
Ditto. I'm over the whole new Genesis 2 only female approach. Not even tempted by Gia. I won't be falling for what is essentially and incredibly overpriced body shape.
I'm not quite sure I get the meaning of "bizzaro DAZ."
Does bizzaro mean reversed behavior or logic where right becomes wrong, up becomes down, and white is black?
Which does make sense if we are talking about DAZ since Chris left.
Oh, great, now I won't be able to think of them under any other name than 'bizarro DAZ' -.-
We'll most likely see Stephanie 6 first.
But yeah, I'm willing to bet that G2M with M6 (and M4 for G2M and Zevo's male equivalent morphs) will come out after G(irl)6.
Good God, DAZ, two G6's in one Generation?
Gen 6 > Gia 6 > Girl 6
...I guess so... ._.
We'll most likely see Stephanie 6 first.
But yeah, I'm willing to bet that G2M with M6 (and M4 for G2M and Zevo's male equivalent morphs) will come out after G(irl)6.
Good God, DAZ, two G6's in one Generation?
Gen 6 > Gia 6 > Girl 6
...I guess so... ._.
I think theres a much higher call for G2M, at least going by comments from the forum. Marketing wise, I'd expect Michael isn't far away, frankly I'm surprised he wasn't released before Gia.
mebbe M6's extra geometry is still in testing. :)
M6 - sounds James Bondish for some reason.
i'm ready to fall in love with a new virtual bf. saw a pic of Chris Hemsworth with short hair, hottness went down several degrees. meh Chris Evans is still hot with short hair. fickle in love.
Greetings,
I think the idea here is that the 'other company' is the Bizarro DAZ. They are giving the appearance of doing things very differently, and probably intentionally opposite the way DAZ has done them recently, but they look very similar despite that. (The actual truth, just like Bizarro, is that it's not quite that black and white.)Bizarro is a mirror image of Superman, who does everything the opposite. He actually comes from a world where, theoretically, everything is the opposite of how things are on Earth. (So, e.g., instead of being round, it's a square world...) So if Superman's the ultimate good guy, Bizarro's the ultimate bad-guy (although it was usually played for comedic value).
On another note, I do love the idea that M6 (M, MI6, etc.) sounds like a Bond reference. Hopefully we'll get a Bond-like character for him; not as much a muscle-bound superhero, sort of a thinking-man's action hero.
-- Morgan