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Do you like the product? Do you find it useful? Are you having fun? If so then you haven't made the wrong choice. I'm sure Daz will continue to support it for at least two years. There are a lot of complaints but that is usual when something new comes out. I think the particular problem in this case is the lack of communication from Daz and concerns that will be left to wither on the vine. I'd recommend enjoying your content. Although I'm not upgrading for a number of reasons - I can see why folks would like V6/Gen 2. If you like it great! Don't let other's complaints spoil your enjoyment. Just because it doesn't work for them doesn't mean it's wrong for you.
If you like gen 6 you should simply enjoy yourself. Gen 6 characters are here to stay at least until the new products become available.
have fun, and welcome. =-)
...my comments were made with regards the the trends in content Daz promotes and the direction they have been heading both over the last thirteen months and since the merger in 2010. It was not intended as a "belittling" of any particular PAs and if it came off that way, again I aplogise. Take it FWIW. If not, so be it, everyone is entitled to their opinion...even if it means having to deal with unfavourable responses at times.
I am deeply concerned where this company is heading for I feel it has lost that community feel it once had.
I have invested in applications, that sit idle because they haven't been debugged, updated (in the case of one, for over five years) and/or are still languishing in Beta development. I have plugins (some which were fairly expensive when I purchased them) that are now useless because the vendors decided to stop updating them as Daz keeps changing things over and over requiring a new rewrite each time. I have seen the value of the PC eroded by new policies which make it ever more difficult to get a return on the investment.
The CMS, Smart Content, DIM are not improvements. If anything they have made the process using the software more complex than it needs to be. I spent a lot, both in time and financial resources, to design and build a system that would support the more "robust" (for lack of a better term) software, the more highly detailed content, and more processor/memory intensive features. I finally get to a point here I feel I can actually start doing something meaningful again, only to once more see the ship is already pulling away from the dock before I can get there.
For those who can afford the investment in "retooling", that's great, more power. For my budget and needs, this newest generation is far too expensive (even given for inflation) to consider, as features that were once included with the basic figure now have to be purchased separately. Maybe the one "silver lining" of this Gender split is that we'll get some more Genesis male oriented content for a while like was just added to the store early today. I've already wishlisted a couple of the items for later purchase (when I can scrape up the funds) as they fit perfectly with the story project I am working on.
As to female characters for the original Genesis. I feel the course has already been set, G2F is the future, Genesis is the past. The future holds promise, the past is...well...the past, yesterday's news. It has nothing to do with individual PAs but again, with where Daz feels they want things to head. Unfortunately for others like myself, it is not a course we can afford to follow given all we have already invested in this.
I feel I have said my peace on the whole matter. It's not just about G2 and how it was released, it is also about what I feel is happening to a company that I once cared about and still do.
Sometimes the hardest things to accept come from those who care the most. If it is not seen this way by some here, that's a personal choice again.
I have disabled both my PM and email links.
I have also unsubscribed from this and all other G2/V6 threads I have commented in.
I think it is about time everyone realised that they are just talking round and round in circles without saying anything that has not been said before.
If the thread continues like this then it has probably got to the point where it needs locking.
Come and join us in the New Users Forum, we discourage negativety there and we also have a contest just for New Users.
I wandered in back around this time in 2009. I'll say it hasn't been a waste of my time, or even close, but I would have gladly done without the first year and a half of struggling with DS3A. DS4 and beyond have been a *vast* improvement on my system and hardware.
But that's the kind of thing where everyone's milage varies, and the variations are all over the map. For me DS3 was an unmitigated struggle, without any option for 64-bit addressing, and a lot of other drawbacks. Other people are still using DS3 because anything later acts like it hates their rig.
Under current circumstances, it's usually worth shifting to newer versions of the software (although I've been burned by beta versions and have learned to wait for the official release), even if only for a trial, because that's something that doesn't requite an immediate outlay of funds. It can be a thoroughgoing hassle if the new version doesn't work with your setup, because unless you had the caution to make backups of your installers for the previous version, you may not be able to get it back. And you may need to wait for plugins to be updated to get those back. But shifting program versions usually offers some real potential advantages at the cost of having to find where features have been moved, and the usual insufficient betaing which always misses something that needs patching.
The content you use with the software, however is largely a matter of preference. So far, most commercial content produced over the past decade -- or even earlier --appears to be still usable right up to the current version of the program. You don't necessarily *want* to, because some of the older stuff has textures that were too low-res to look really good, regardless. But something over 95% of it *can* be used, and people *are* using it.
Which means that for them, it works. Consequently, while something totally new and hoopy may meet with resistance in a number of pockets of the "community", a lot more of the community is willing to take a chance on it. But no one likes having something that worked, stop working, or need the user to jump through all kinds of additional hoops in order to make it work.
Genesis was wonderful in that it enabled people to build their own characters, at the end user level, with an ease such as they had never had before. The autofit tools which were only released with, and for, Genesis enabled people (with the proper add-ons) to use a far greater than random percentage of content going back to gen 3, and use it on just about *any* Genesis character. This is something that no one is going to see stop working -- or be led to believe that it is going to stop working -- without raising an ungodly stink.
No matter what DAZ did, there would have been an outcry. But they could have probably deflected a lot of it by a couple of threads making a point of showing people how well existing Genesis content autofits to Genesis 2, and vice versa. It's a new mesh, so not everything will "just work", and there are hoops to jump through if you want to transfer morphs, and undoubtedly new hoops are in the planning stages to give Genesis 2 access to other Gen5 UV maps down the road. And yes it is annoying to have to purchase new addons in order to make use of new tools. But we've always had to do that.
I hadn't realised that it was for V6 thanks for pointing it out as it's not much use to me in that case.
Duh.... I just discovered the freepository... I have just always looked at the SHOP - FREE 3D MODELS.... didn't realize there was a whole forum category.... even though I think I have clicked on links to it... so anyway this thread was valuable read for me:)
"Belittle" means "to depreciate" or "disparage" here in the US too, I have no idea why someone was saying it didn't have a negative meaning.
I wasn't too fond of Genesis 2 at first and I'm more concerned about merchants having to choose which figure to work on more than anything else, but I'm finding that the figure itself is an improvement over classic Genesis. Like everything, it will take time and a lot more releases for Genesis 2 (not to mention the male) before it we can even think about it being a replacement for our current Genesis. It's just another tool that we can use when needed and switch to when we're ready.
Thanks for letting me know...I thought it was likely.
I have bought the pro bundle and mallen lanes conversion for V4 but I doubt that I will buy anything else for that figure unless it is capable of supporting both sexes and has the same versatility of the original Genesis. I'm very disappointed with the direction DAZ3D have taken their new figures but in the end it is their choice.
It's my choice to decide how I spend my money though and I will not be buying anything for Gen2F at this point. I can only hope that someone else decides to take up the idea of a unisex figure that has the versatility of Genesis if so they would certainly get my money. Until then I will make do with what vendors are willing to make for Genesis and where necessary work on making stuff for myself in future.
I remember went V4, hit 500 000 mark, so that means for V6 to beat that number and everyone had to be bought they must be a happy camper :)
To give you some reassurance, the fact that your new makes things different for you as you have no preconceived notions from how things used to be. It's all new to you so you can just pick up and run with it. So for you and people like you these new products are better then they are for people more used to the older ways. So no, you didn't make the wrong choice.
Also If you read closely thru the posts you'll see that very few are really complaining about V6 or G2F but rather they're unhappy with the timing of the release or the way it's being marketed. Mostly though it seems to be concerns of people who have spent lots of money on Genesis products in the past year and before they've had much chance to do anything with it Daz has released a new figure that requires a new version of the same products many have already bought. Like the latest offerings Super Hero Suit for G2 Females. Many here already bought the super hero suit for Genesis and are probably wondering why they have to buy a separate suit for G2 Females rather then Daz or the creator of the original suit coming up with an update that allows the original super hero suit to work with both Genesis and Genesis 2 Females.
Just to clarify, the new Super Hero Suit has absolutely nothing to do with the Genesis Supersuit (if you got that one in mind), so this is indeed a brand new product and not intended as an "update" for the Supersuit. The old Supersuit got a whole different layout and working principle with regards to morphs and material zones than the new one.
My post was removed so I guess it must have been offensive or divisive in some way. I do apologize to the community if my post was offensive to any one.
Yes, but that's the first definition [which is the one I'd used]. The one KickAir used was the completely different secondary definition that basically means "to dwarf" [as DAZ is certainly not speaking ill of her].
Belittle. The only definition that works in the context of KickAir's sentence is the second, which is not negative.
EDITED: Because I can't follow a coherent train of thought sometimes. :lol:
This seems to be pretty much what was meant.
Thank you for summing up my position much better than I could. I first got into 3D art because I had all sorts of ideas for characters, and I was sorely disappointed by what mostly wasn't possible with the gen4 figures. Genesis changed all that. I dislike G2F because (1) it can't do a lot of what I want to do, and (2) it's very likely to reduce the number of artists making products for the figure that can do what I want to do.
This conversation is getting to be a bit much so it's time to post keep it civil before the thread gets locked. Direct your statements to the subject and not at each other
This seems to be pretty much what was meant.
Nooooo, it's an American word, Oxford can't have it.
I kid. I concede that is almost certainly what was meant. [My initial point that it's not the same as actively speaking ill of someone like people started to do of the vendors still stands, though.]
Creating characters with Gen 4 was and still is incredibly easy, though it appears a lot of people never attempted character creation until Genesis was released. Genesis made it easier to create CREATURES. Fitting clothing to those creatures may or may not result in decent results. Though, I think some people have better luck doing so than others. Me ... I never was able to get anything to look good on the Genesis Gorilla ... not even in DS.
Thank you for summing up my position much better than I could. I first got into 3D art because I had all sorts of ideas for characters, and I was sorely disappointed by what mostly wasn't possible with the gen4 figures. Genesis changed all that. I dislike G2F because (1) it can't do a lot of what I want to do, and (2) it's very likely to reduce the number of artists making products for the figure that can do what I want to do.
Sorry creating characters with Gen4 wasn't easier. Taking a custom morph, extracting deltas, editing injection files, etc. definitely wasn't easier.
Custom body shapes? Not practical until Genesis. Doing multiple Gen4 head shapes in a product to mix and match had to use ExP (that editor wasn't fun to navigate) and a lot of people balked at installing it and products required a separate installer just to install the morphs.
Within a fairly narrow range for each figure, sure. Want a youthful, curvy adult woman? V4's your girl. Want a big, strong adult man? M4 can do that for you. Want other masculine men and feminine women? With the right morph packs, you may be able to get what you want, though getting clothes to fit could be a bit tricky. Want a little kid? K4 may look a bit off, but it's what's available. Want someone between the ages of 7 and 15? Good luck.
Sorry creating characters with Gen4 wasn't easier. Taking a custom morph, extracting deltas, editing injection files, etc. definitely wasn't easier.
Custom body shapes? Not practical until Genesis. Doing multiple Gen4 head shapes in a product to mix and match had to use ExP (that editor wasn't fun to navigate) and a lot of people balked at installing it and products required a separate installer just to install the morphs.
Thank you for reminding me why I Gen X all of my generation 4 characters into Genesis.
You're talking about it from a content provider standpoint. I'm not. Nor are the majority of people who state that Genesis has made it easy for the "common folk" to create characters. Many who also admitted when Genesis came out that they'd always just used out of the box premade characters. I am glad that Genesis helped people see they could do more than just plop content in a scene and render.
I won't disagree that creating content for the Genesis system is improved over the process that was used to create Gen 4 content. I'm sure it is. Enough of you have said so and how much faster it is to create that content ... even though prices haven't reflected the massive savings in time and effort. But then ... no one likes to take any kind of a pay cut ... even when technology makes one's work easier to do
Now ... with Poser Pro 2014, it's become much easier to fit clothing to "creature" bodies ... even practical. But again, that's from a "common folk" standpoint, not a content provider.
/shrug
I always forget where I am. Don't worry, I'll be elsewhere before too long.
Sorry creating characters with Gen4 wasn't easier. Taking a custom morph, extracting deltas, editing injection files, etc. definitely wasn't easier.
Custom body shapes? Not practical until Genesis. Doing multiple Gen4 head shapes in a product to mix and match had to use ExP (that editor wasn't fun to navigate) and a lot of people balked at installing it and products required a separate installer just to install the morphs.
I think prices has pretty much stayed in line; I don't see how cutting prices when people that create gen4 products keep it the same is even practical. I know in our products because it's been easier, we've added more items. Our Gen 4 products contained several head morphs and some morph++ body shapes so it can fit clothing; our Genesis products contained the same or more head morphs and custom body shapes (with shorter body shapes), with the latest ones containing JCMs for better bending. It may not be the same price, but we can do more things that would have been impossible with Gen4 so we end up with a better product.
Not sure how a feature available in the more expensive "Pro" pack is for the common folk. And reading the threads about it, the results aren't that great, with most clothing ending up floating above the figure. Perhaps later versions will refine that process. But certainly it's not as easy as autofit.
Oh look theres some poke-through on first picture. Hardly surprising considering item in use. What is the white stuff on first picture? (rhetorical question). I gave you a hint on second picture. :D
Why yes, its 2m, 200 divisions, converted to SubD, smoothing & collision applied plane primitive. Now, if, err, that is possible with 2D, hardly designed to be used with human shape in mind, plane primitive, what do you think is possible to do with all those V4, G1, I have spent a lot of money, clothing items which are designed with human shape in mind? (another rhetorical question :D)
Oh, last picture, our plane primitive friend, trying hard to avoid G2F in some quick watery action. :)
Seems like it gets a lot of flak for being "the most successful"
Wow! Great use of smoothing and collision. I remember when genesis first came out people were using it for indentations on pillows etc...but would never have thought of it for water.
You haven't come into it at the wrong time. There is no right or wrong time. To be honest, this happens every time DAZ introduces a new generation of figure. Whether you chose to use G2F/V6 or Genesis is up to you. At the moment, Genesis has a larger catalog of morphs, textures, add on products and clothing that does the newer figure.
I'm not sure I'd call it backlash so much as concerns. Concerns that once would have been addressed by DAZ but have been largely left unrecognized. The sudden appearance of the G2F and the return to a gender split has created a lot of questions to which there are few official answers.
Wait until you try to get a Genesis Dog to look good in clothing.
My mistake in not specifying I meant the Morphing Tool, not the Fitting Room. Doesn't make sense to use the Fitting Room when you're using clothing that was created for your base figure.
The Morphing Tool was always a quick and easy fix to minor poke through, and the improvements to it makes it quite easy to make large adjustments quickly to clothing without distorting the mesh which can happen when copying morphs from the figure to clothing.
The Morphing Tool improvements is available in both versions of Poser.
I've not had a problem with the Fitting Room resulting in clothing floating above the figure. I assume you mean too much space between the figure and clothing, rather than the clothing floating above her head. V4's T pose gives me problems because the legs are too close together and pants tend to get confused. I also find that the mesh on a lot of older content doesn't hold together when fitting.
Edited to remove extra end quote code