V6, DAZ's most successful release?

fixmypcmike

Are you saying the Changing Fantasy Suit and Michael 2 didn't work in DS2 and DS3? They certainly did for me.

tsarist

fixmypcmike said:

Are you saying the Changing Fantasy Suit and Michael 2 didn't work in DS2 and DS3? They certainly did for me.

Last I remember M2 worked fine in DS2.3for me too.
I THINK the Fantasy Suit worked too, but I don't remember for sure.

Male-M3dia

icprncss said:

Male-M3dia said:

icprncss said:

One, you are talking about what you make which is not the same as whether or not DAZ will at some point in time decide in favor of G2 over G1 as standard included content. I don't care if you make what you want when you want it.

Still, I don't see that happening as it would affect the sale of all Genesis 1 items in the store. However I think you have a while, it took a few years for V4 to be put on sale again, but then that was never standard content and once it's part of your downloads you have access to it.

As for the plugins, no, not all of them are PA products.

Some are buyouts, however most of the buyouts have been updated for DS4. Still, most of the plugins that I used to use in DS3 (such as Finder 2) were PA items, and those would need to be updated by them.

I'll skip the sarcastic comment about whether or not I know which vendor is responsible for what products. Suffice it to say that not all plugins you may be familiar with are all the plugins that have come and gone and not all of them were PA products.

Well then you'll probably have to give an example to that effect and whether the functionality was brought into DS. I have a good number of plugins from DS2 and DS3, and most of them were PA owned.

Genesis is different. It is not sold as a stand alone figure. Outside of DS4.x, it essentially does not exist. You cannot go into the store and purchase the base figure.

Actually you can... the DSON importer for Genesis has it included as Genesis Essentials. And I'm sure it's been updated to include the Essentials for Genesis two.

However you're arguing about something being taken away when it will always exist in your downloads. When has DAZ deleted items from your downloads that you've purchased? Are you arguing for future purchasers?

Cybersox

Male-M3dia said:

Well then you'll probably have to give an example to that effect and whether the functionality was brought into DS. I have a good number of plugins from DS2 and DS3, and most of them were PA owned.

I'm not into the Big Brother-esque theories as much as some, but DAZ does have a history of just dropping things, making it essential to keep older versions of the software on hand. One that doesn't count as a plug-in, per se, was the figure mixer from DS3. While the basic functions of morph follower was superseded by the Transfer Active morphs routine, the FM just seemed to vanish into the ether despite Studio still supporting Gen3 and 4 figures.

icprncss

Actually no, not everything always remains in your Downloads. The Original She Freak was sold as a DAZ original and was a PC item. While it was not as popular as The Freak, it had some support. After the release of the V3 Special Anniversary Edition, DAZ decided to pull the figure and create a She Freak morph for V3 SAE.

The product is no longer in my product list. The clothing I purchased for the figure is still listed but the figure is not. So, no, not everything remains in your Downloads.

DAZ drops support for things all the time.

tsarist

icprncss said:

Actually no, not everything always remains in your Downloads. The Original She Freak was sold as a DAZ original and was a PC item. While it was not as popular as The Freak, it had some support. After the release of the V3 Special Anniversary Edition, DAZ decided to pull the figure and create a She Freak morph for V3 SAE.

The product is no longer in my product list. The clothing I purchased for the figure is still listed but the figure is not. So, no, not everything remains in your Downloads.

DAZ drops support for things all the time.

Wow.
I didn't know any of that.
I assumed everything you purchased STAYED in your Downloads.

I may have to work harder at downloading my files

icprncss

Given the recent departure of Lisa B, it was made known that while PC items are sold as DAZ Originals, they may not in truth be DAZ Originals. DAZ never offered an explanation as to why they were pulling the figure but perhaps it was sold as a DO but like Lisa's plants, it was still owned by Dodger.

DAZ Studio is another product that doesn't remain the same. While you probably purchased DS4.5 when it was released and your product library will list it as such, the download is for DS4.6.

Puntomaus

Cybersox13 said:

Male-M3dia said:

Well then you'll probably have to give an example to that effect and whether the functionality was brought into DS. I have a good number of plugins from DS2 and DS3, and most of them were PA owned.

I'm not into the Big Brother-esque theories as much as some, but DAZ does have a history of just dropping things, making it essential to keep older versions of the software on hand. One that doesn't count as a plug-in, per se, was the figure mixer from DS3. While the basic functions of morph follower was superseded by the Transfer Active morphs routine, the FM just seemed to vanish into the ether despite Studio still supporting Gen3 and 4 figures.

Yep, I miss the Figure Mixer too. Try loading a scene with a dolly created with Figure Mixer in the current version of DAZ Studio ... it's not nice.

RCDeschene

Male-M3dia said:

ghastlycomic said:

Male-M3dia said:

I think you probably need to think more about why Genesis 2 is here. It's definitely not here to sell the same thing twice. Genesis 2 is actually superior to Gen 1 in a lot of aspects and one of them is the fact that it harder to make something gender-specific in Gen 1... a lot what you see took a lot of work in the background. Gen 2 takes a lot less work to get to that point.

Genesis 1 may have had some slight issues making clothing fit SOME gender specific morphs but it was still possible to make one outfit fit across genders. Genesis 2 it is completely impossible to make your outfit anything but gender specific. This means if I want to make a unisex shirt I now have to design two entirely separate meshes. That's a lot more work than simply tweaking an outfit to get it to fit an uncooperative gender morph.

Separate meshes will mean more work for people who want to design unisex outfits. It will also mean once again male figures will get sweet-dick-all in terms of support.

Physically there's very little difference between the Genesis 1 and G2F meshes. One can mimic the other very reasonably. WHen people complain "men and women aren't built the same" they're thinking of the idealized supermodel figured women verses idealized supermodel figured men. As a species human beings have far less sexually dimorphic than most species and the average person has a blend of what are considered masculine and feminine traits. The idealization of one form as male and another as female based on what we consider gender beauty is one of the reasons many transsexuals face such discrimination. Perhaps for creating these fantasized ideals an extra polygon may make a difference but to claim it's being done in the name of realism is laughable.

It's being done to sell two sets of clothes and two sets of morphs in situations where only one would be needed on Genesis 1.

Like I said, I'd wait until the male shows up, because there is a lot of speculation going on about how clothing will work in Gen 2. If you really thought about it, you'd probably could guess what I can't say, but the situation isn't as dire as you're making it.
Hold up! What's this now? Are you trying to imply that G2M will actually help equalize the amount of support for male content? How? Are you perhaps insinuating that we'll be able to Auto-Fit clothing between the male and female bases? Because that's the only plausible thing I can think of.

KickAir 8P

RCDeschene said:

Male-M3dia said:

ghastlycomic said:

Male-M3dia said:

I think you probably need to think more about why Genesis 2 is here. It's definitely not here to sell the same thing twice. Genesis 2 is actually superior to Gen 1 in a lot of aspects and one of them is the fact that it harder to make something gender-specific in Gen 1... a lot what you see took a lot of work in the background. Gen 2 takes a lot less work to get to that point.

Genesis 1 may have had some slight issues making clothing fit SOME gender specific morphs but it was still possible to make one outfit fit across genders. Genesis 2 it is completely impossible to make your outfit anything but gender specific. This means if I want to make a unisex shirt I now have to design two entirely separate meshes. That's a lot more work than simply tweaking an outfit to get it to fit an uncooperative gender morph.

Separate meshes will mean more work for people who want to design unisex outfits. It will also mean once again male figures will get sweet-dick-all in terms of support.

Physically there's very little difference between the Genesis 1 and G2F meshes. One can mimic the other very reasonably. WHen people complain "men and women aren't built the same" they're thinking of the idealized supermodel figured women verses idealized supermodel figured men. As a species human beings have far less sexually dimorphic than most species and the average person has a blend of what are considered masculine and feminine traits. The idealization of one form as male and another as female based on what we consider gender beauty is one of the reasons many transsexuals face such discrimination. Perhaps for creating these fantasized ideals an extra polygon may make a difference but to claim it's being done in the name of realism is laughable.

It's being done to sell two sets of clothes and two sets of morphs in situations where only one would be needed on Genesis 1.

Like I said, I'd wait until the male shows up, because there is a lot of speculation going on about how clothing will work in Gen 2. If you really thought about it, you'd probably could guess what I can't say, but the situation isn't as dire as you're making it.
Hold up! What's this now? Are you trying to imply that G2M will actually help equalize the amount of support for male content? How? Are you perhaps insinuating that we'll be able to Auto-Fit clothing between the male and female bases? Because that's the only plausible thing I can think of.
And even if true, it depends on when the male version shows up (don't anyone so much as breath the s-word!) -- weeks? Months? The traditional years? Until then, since this is called Genesis, it's essentially half a product. If that, considering the lack of a basic child.

The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind . . . much like vapor.

Cybersox

Puntomaus said:

Cybersox13 said:

Male-M3dia said:

Well then you'll probably have to give an example to that effect and whether the functionality was brought into DS. I have a good number of plugins from DS2 and DS3, and most of them were PA owned.

I'm not into the Big Brother-esque theories as much as some, but DAZ does have a history of just dropping things, making it essential to keep older versions of the software on hand. One that doesn't count as a plug-in, per se, was the figure mixer from DS3. While the basic functions of morph follower was superseded by the Transfer Active morphs routine, the FM just seemed to vanish into the ether despite Studio still supporting Gen3 and 4 figures.

Yep, I miss the Figure Mixer too. Try loading a scene with a dolly created with Figure Mixer in the current version of DAZ Studio ... it's not nice.
Which is why I mentioned it, as it seems to be a good example of what a lot of people are worried about. It's not so much that we think that there'll be an intentional dropping of Genesis 1 support, but the Figure Mixer was a pretty heavily hyped feature in DS3, and with DS4, it just went "poof!"

almahiedra

RCDeschene said:

Hold up! What's this now? Are you trying to imply that G2M will actually help equalize the amount of support for male content? How? Are you perhaps insinuating that we'll be able to Auto-Fit clothing between the male and female bases? Because that's the only plausible thing I can think of.

See 3) Added support for TriAx to TriAx AutoFit. in http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/22156/

and http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/327199/

icprncss

Puntomaus said:

Cybersox13 said:

Male-M3dia said:

Well then you'll probably have to give an example to that effect and whether the functionality was brought into DS. I have a good number of plugins from DS2 and DS3, and most of them were PA owned.

I'm not into the Big Brother-esque theories as much as some, but DAZ does have a history of just dropping things, making it essential to keep older versions of the software on hand. One that doesn't count as a plug-in, per se, was the figure mixer from DS3. While the basic functions of morph follower was superseded by the Transfer Active morphs routine, the FM just seemed to vanish into the ether despite Studio still supporting Gen3 and 4 figures.

Yep, I miss the Figure Mixer too. Try loading a scene with a dolly created with Figure Mixer in the current version of DAZ Studio ... it's not nice.

Have you tried exporting your mixed figure as an obj file from DS3, and then importing into DS4 Pro and re-rigging it there using the CCT's?

Male-M3dia

tsarist said:

icprncss said:

Actually no, not everything always remains in your Downloads. The Original She Freak was sold as a DAZ original and was a PC item. While it was not as popular as The Freak, it had some support. After the release of the V3 Special Anniversary Edition, DAZ decided to pull the figure and create a She Freak morph for V3 SAE.

The product is no longer in my product list. The clothing I purchased for the figure is still listed but the figure is not. So, no, not everything remains in your Downloads.

DAZ drops support for things all the time.

Wow.
I didn't know any of that.
I assumed everything you purchased STAYED in your Downloads.

I may have to work harder at downloading my files

Me too. There was a item that was offered as a freebie a few years back that was pulled from the store because of copyright violations, but that's still in my download list. So if that is still there and they didn't own it, I kind of find it hard to believe the pulled something they did own from the download list.

Male-M3dia

Puntomaus said:

Cybersox13 said:

Male-M3dia said:

Well then you'll probably have to give an example to that effect and whether the functionality was brought into DS. I have a good number of plugins from DS2 and DS3, and most of them were PA owned.

I'm not into the Big Brother-esque theories as much as some, but DAZ does have a history of just dropping things, making it essential to keep older versions of the software on hand. One that doesn't count as a plug-in, per se, was the figure mixer from DS3. While the basic functions of morph follower was superseded by the Transfer Active morphs routine, the FM just seemed to vanish into the ether despite Studio still supporting Gen3 and 4 figures.

Yep, I miss the Figure Mixer too. Try loading a scene with a dolly created with Figure Mixer in the current version of DAZ Studio ... it's not nice.

I can understand why they pulled the figure mixer, that's the precursor to genesis... and it really didn't work all that well and no one really used it. Morph follower didn't work that well; it made brittle clothing that broke if you reposed the character. Transfer active morphs works much better. But then those were intro features that were replaced by better functionality, which I've said before. But still, those aren't plugins from DAZ, and we were talking about ones they haven't updated.

Joe Cotter

Male-M3dia said:

...Me too. There was a item that was offered as a freebie a few years back that was pulled from the store because of copyright violations, but that's still in my download list. So if that is still there and they didn't own it, I kind of find it hard to believe the pulled something they did own from the download list.

Just a clarification on this. None of the items I got from the old 'freebie' section are in my list. Morphing Python is an example. I got it from the freebie section and bought the skins.. now only the skins show up in my list.

Serene Night

Hmm. Perhaps it only shows item you buy from the store. I bought morphing python, and it is still in my downloads.

Joe Cotter

Yes, that was my point... the freebies in general don't show as downloadable anymore, including ones that are still available, unless purchased. It was in direct reference to a previous comment. Basically, if one didn't 'purchase' something, then the item is subject to being no longer available at some point. Technically, even if the item was purchased, as in the not to distant DIM + new license issue.

Understand, I'm not trying to stir anything up but rather keep the record clear. I try to keep an open mind but with all of the facts.

DAZ mentioned at that time that people should be keeping backups of their content and I think that this still applies.

Richard Haseltine

icprncss said:

DAZ never offered an explanation as to why they were pulling the figure but perhaps it was sold as a DO but like Lisa's plants, it was still owned by Dodger.

DAZ Studio is another product that doesn't remain the same. While you probably purchased DS4.5 when it was released and your product library will list it as such, the download is for DS4.6.

SF1 had broken fingers - I can't recall which, but one joint on each (probably the tip) didn't move. Dodger did release a fix, but it wasn't entirely successful. The Freaky Devils freebie, which was built on the Freaks, did do somewhat better but even then there was crunching in the knuckles as I recall - and in the past DAZ has been reluctant to make unilateral changes to content even if they own the rights.

And yes, when a given product/SKU is updated you get the update and not the original - that has affected one or two items in the store, as well as applications.

None of which has any obvious bearing on Genesis 1.

LordHardDriven

background said:

Since some people have made a point of saying they disagree with what I wrote I will explain my thoughts here.

Firstly, and most importantly, none of us can claim to speak for a large part of the userbase. I could say "All DAZ users want lower prices" it may or may not be true, but I have no way of knowing that. Clearly some people agree with JasminSkunk, and that is fine, and to be expected. I disagree, and that also should be fine.

I believe DAZ does care what we think, it they didn't they could close down the forum and just send out emails when there were new items for sale. Some stores work that way.
It has been said that a lot of what is posted in the forums is read, but a lot of conflicting opinions are posted, so which should they listen too? me, you, PA's? We can't all push DAZ in different directions, or expect to do so. Even in this thread people are suggesting differing 'priority lists'.

One thing I do agree with is that there hasn't been a clear explanation of why Genesis 2 was created instead of modifying Genesis 1. I have read, here and elsewhere, that some people don't like the gender neutral base. Maybe DAZ is listening to those customers? Whatever the reason I am happy with genesis 2 and V6 and I'm not afraid to say so.

On the subject of DAZ just wants as much money as possible, again I disagree. Right now there are over 2300 items in the PC club for $1.99 each. I'm sure those items cost more than that to make. Some may be old, but nevertheless we are being offered a lot of items at knock down prices.

I don't have a lot of disposable income myself, so what I spend I want to get value for. and I believe I get that here.

I'm sure people will dissect what I have written and pull it apart, that's fine. It's still my opinion though.

Don't get wrapped up in the minutiae, lots of people express themselves in ways that sounds like they're talking for a larger group. I've seen it done on both sides of the discussion here in this thread. Probably they'd be more accurate to say "all the _________ that I know think...." If you go back and reread what Jasmine said she really never said she spoke for all hobbyists she didn't say this either but at least to me her words read closer to "all hobbyists like me".

As for the $1.99 stuff those are kind of like what is known in the retail industry as loss leaders which are things sold at or below cost with the hopes they'll generate other business. Additionally if you look carefully thru the bulk of the $1.99 items a great many of them are add-ons for something else that isn't $1.99. Also if you look inside them they tend to have less to them then other similar things that sell at higher prices. Like a Texture pack in the $1.99 section is more likely going to just have 2 or 3 options rather then a half dozen or more options like the more expensive texture packs, or poses might only have a handful of poses rather then a dozen or more poses. Also keep in mind that $1.99 price is in some ways offset by the monthly or annual (best value) membership fee.

LordHardDriven

KickAir 8P said:

And even if true, it depends on when the male version shows up (don't anyone so much as breath the s-word!) -- weeks? Months? The traditional years? Until then, since this is called Genesis, it's essentially half a product. If that, considering the lack of a basic child.

The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind . . . much like vapor.

I suspect it'll show up later this year maybe during the PC membership event?

LordHardDriven

Cybersox13 said:

Puntomaus said:

Cybersox13 said:

Male-M3dia said:

Well then you'll probably have to give an example to that effect and whether the functionality was brought into DS. I have a good number of plugins from DS2 and DS3, and most of them were PA owned.

I'm not into the Big Brother-esque theories as much as some, but DAZ does have a history of just dropping things, making it essential to keep older versions of the software on hand. One that doesn't count as a plug-in, per se, was the figure mixer from DS3. While the basic functions of morph follower was superseded by the Transfer Active morphs routine, the FM just seemed to vanish into the ether despite Studio still supporting Gen3 and 4 figures.

Yep, I miss the Figure Mixer too. Try loading a scene with a dolly created with Figure Mixer in the current version of DAZ Studio ... it's not nice.
Which is why I mentioned it, as it seems to be a good example of what a lot of people are worried about. It's not so much that we think that there'll be an intentional dropping of Genesis 1 support, but the Figure Mixer was a pretty heavily hyped feature in DS3, and with DS4, it just went "poof!"

Or even if it doesn't disappear from your products library it could go the route of the Content Manager which can still be downloaded if you bought it but it stopped working years ago after the first website upgrade.

Chohole

LordHardDriven said:

Additionally if you look carefully thru the bulk of the $1.99 items a great many of them are add-ons for something else that isn't $1.99

Most of the add-on packs are textures for PC items, either the $1.99 ones or the value $2.99 ones

LordHardDriven

chohole said:

LordHardDriven said:

Additionally if you look carefully thru the bulk of the $1.99 items a great many of them are add-ons for something else that isn't $1.99

Most of the add-on packs are textures for PC items, either the $1.99 ones or the value $2.99 ones

Okay but it doesn't change the point I made as I never said all were for something else that isn't $1.99.

Kattey

As for the $1.99 stuff those are kind of like what is known in the retail industry as loss leaders which are things sold at or below cost with the hopes they’ll generate other business.

I don't think PC is a loss-leader for DAZ3D. Otherwise we don't have a gamble of Value category, which was specifically introduced to make people buy more PC items and not store them in wishlists, because PC wasn't making as much money as it needed to make. I believe I saw Laurie mention a couple of time that PC items should sell enough to make new items possible and there were some difficulties with that.

larsmidnatt

Kattey said:

I don't think PC is a loss-leader for DAZ3D. Otherwise we don't have a gamble of Value category, which was specifically introduced to make people buy more PC items and not store them in wishlists, because PC wasn't making as much money as it needed to make. I believe I saw Laurie mention a couple of time that PC items should sell enough to make new items possible and there were some difficulties with that.

I couldn't tell you the last time I bought a PC item. a few months at least. I don't even wishlist them.

Kattey

larsmidnatt said:

Kattey said:

I don't think PC is a loss-leader for DAZ3D. Otherwise we don't have a gamble of Value category, which was specifically introduced to make people buy more PC items and not store them in wishlists, because PC wasn't making as much money as it needed to make. I believe I saw Laurie mention a couple of time that PC items should sell enough to make new items possible and there were some difficulties with that.

I couldn't tell you the last time I bought a PC item. a few months at least. I don't even wishlist them.
Neither I do anymore. I also deleted all DOs from my wishlist, just in case of new idea that DAZ3D could make from BigBrothering of my wishlist :p
I do buy PC items I like/need on release but I was always doing this even before Value.

Dino Gramps

The Value Category hasn't changed my buying habits. If I really like a PC item, I buy it during the first week, as I always have. If I don't see myself using it, I pass. If I later have a need for it, $1 is not going to stand in the way of it going in my shopping cart. However, haven't needed to buy a Value item yet!

Ghosty12

Knight22179 said:

Got an E-mail today saying that V6 is DAZ's most successful release to date. With the large number of disgruntled, and upset, DAZ customers (a lot of which refusing to buy), somehow I highly doubt that.

I Would have thought Victoria's 3 and 4 were the most successful for Daz. But then again they have been around for a few years. I see real success in where V5/V6 is a few years time in terms of content and support..

Considering how long Vicky 3 and 4 have been around you still have a lot of content being made for them..

Cybersox

SereneNight said:

Hmm. Perhaps it only shows item you buy from the store. I bought morphing python, and it is still in my downloads.

Ditto here. Nothing from the Free Library ever showed up in my downloads, I had to save all of those to a separate folder. The Python was a weird sitch in and of itself, as it was in the a freebie library, then re-offered as a for purchase item at the same time the Cold Blooded texture pack for it came out. There were also a dozen or so free items that were made available through the PC forum that were never in my runtimes either.