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think you are not alone about this,
V6, G2, really a great idea! and she bends well.
but, me and pretty sure alot of people waiting for more...
we need first more evolution in the "dazstudio software" i can understand all these goodies can't stay free and have a price soon or later.
- a working IK system that animators, really can use and quickly solve problems like feet slide, hip rotation, options to easy move keyframes in time without broke your animation, option to turn the auto keyframe recording off.
- more timelines are only confusing for people, better have one main daz timeline (where you can use keyframes, or nla animate clips, or have your motion graph control)
- a cloth creator (marvelousdesigner may be? the optitex version is out of every hobbiest 's or semi pro user 's price range).
- a realtime ragdol/riggid body system in studio (not a poor version like SM try in poserpro2014)
- dynamic hair, we've seen some demo projects in construction with the lame hair and the other fiber hair plugin (studio 5 dynamic version?)
- dson export/import genesis features in other software, modo, c4d, lw, max,...
if my memory still works well, i remember me reading some article at 3d world a year or 2 two years ago, where Daz's main man "Dan" speaks about a genesis platform that could be imported into other software and use all the morph features.
we have seen some demo of a maya version, but still nothing official today.
i wonder if this project still under developing or if this was to hughe to do?
Daz, call me your price when it's ready ;)
when that day is true, i will re-think about buying a genesis update or even V6,7,8. but no day earlier.
sorry for me it's not only content that counts anymore, also software evolution is very important (i know you guys working on it, and that take's time!)
i really need a tool that i can use in my pipeline or a tool where i can do all in one and export in my pipeline.
my first main concern is animation, but i can 't do this with a broken IK system.
so Vicky you have to wait a little more until our next date, :) in the meanwhile i go out with her sister :p
every page refresh count's as a view.
you can have 10,000 views very fast.
and 1000,000 or more in an hour if someone use kind of spambot or hixbot.
what i try to explain, the views tell's nothing about "real" people that visiting a thread)
If they think V6 has been a suck cess...
Wait until they release The Millennium Cow!!
Sales will dwarf all previous records.
Nothing else will sell ever again and skankwear, textures, moorphs, and other add-ons / expansion sets for The Millennium Cow will become the New Business Model across the entire Universe!!
I'm shocked that with it's over 10,000 views, and hundreds of replies, nobody has mentioned this yet in this thread.
Who makes most of the content in the store?
The PAs.
Who provides DAZ with the Daz originals?
The PAs.
DAZ generally supplies the base and the PAs provide the content around it. That's how it's been for years. So as long as it's profitable for the PAs to provide content for a figure, that's how long the figure will get content. DAZ Originals really depends on the PAs wanting to sell a product to DAZ, DAZ doesn't make that content.
Genesis 1 may have had some slight issues making clothing fit SOME gender specific morphs but it was still possible to make one outfit fit across genders. Genesis 2 it is completely impossible to make your outfit anything but gender specific. This means if I want to make a unisex shirt I now have to design two entirely separate meshes. That's a lot more work than simply tweaking an outfit to get it to fit an uncooperative gender morph.
Separate meshes will mean more work for people who want to design unisex outfits. It will also mean once again male figures will get sweet-dick-all in terms of support.
Physically there's very little difference between the Genesis 1 and G2F meshes. One can mimic the other very reasonably. WHen people complain "men and women aren't built the same" they're thinking of the idealized supermodel figured women verses idealized supermodel figured men. As a species human beings have far less sexually dimorphic than most species and the average person has a blend of what are considered masculine and feminine traits. The idealization of one form as male and another as female based on what we consider gender beauty is one of the reasons many transsexuals face such discrimination. Perhaps for creating these fantasized ideals an extra polygon may make a difference but to claim it's being done in the name of realism is laughable.
It's being done to sell two sets of clothes and two sets of morphs in situations where only one would be needed on Genesis 1.
That's only half of the equation. DAZ has to want to buy and own the content.
That's only half of the equation. DAZ has to want to buy and own the content.
No, all content depends on the PAs providing it. Sure DAZ has to like it because they won't take anything, but everything generally comes from PAs. I won't get into details about buying DOs, but there are reasons why some PAs rather sell stuff through their store rather than directly to DAZ.
Genesis 1 may have had some slight issues making clothing fit SOME gender specific morphs but it was still possible to make one outfit fit across genders. Genesis 2 it is completely impossible to make your outfit anything but gender specific. This means if I want to make a unisex shirt I now have to design two entirely separate meshes. That's a lot more work than simply tweaking an outfit to get it to fit an uncooperative gender morph.
Separate meshes will mean more work for people who want to design unisex outfits. It will also mean once again male figures will get sweet-dick-all in terms of support.
Physically there's very little difference between the Genesis 1 and G2F meshes. One can mimic the other very reasonably. WHen people complain "men and women aren't built the same" they're thinking of the idealized supermodel figured women verses idealized supermodel figured men. As a species human beings have far less sexually dimorphic than most species and the average person has a blend of what are considered masculine and feminine traits. The idealization of one form as male and another as female based on what we consider gender beauty is one of the reasons many transsexuals face such discrimination. Perhaps for creating these fantasized ideals an extra polygon may make a difference but to claim it's being done in the name of realism is laughable.
It's being done to sell two sets of clothes and two sets of morphs in situations where only one would be needed on Genesis 1.
Like I said, I'd wait until the male shows up, because there is a lot of speculation going on about how clothing will work in Gen 2. If you really thought about it, you'd probably could guess what I can't say, but the situation isn't as dire as you're making it.
Who makes most of the content in the store?
The PAs.
Who provides DAZ with the Daz originals?
The PAs.
DAZ generally supplies the base and the PAs provide the content around it. That's how it's been for years. So as long as it's profitable for the PAs to provide content for a figure, that's how long the figure will get content. DAZ Originals really depends on the PAs wanting to sell a product to DAZ, DAZ doesn't make that content.
So, we are to believe that by supplying PA's with the base, you now the future of DS and it's past and current figures?
I've been using DAZ figures since they were Zygote and DS wasn't even a twinkle in the DAZ developer's eyes. I've seen it from the alpha release during Christmas 2003 through the current RC. I've watched as content, not just included content but content that was sold here in the store cease to work properly in newer RC's. Whenever I filed a ticket with tech support, the inevitable response came back that the problem was due to changes in the DS sdk and there was nothing they could do about.
Unless we are to believe that DAZ intends to continue to spend money to update Genesis as the DS sdk's change (and they will change as the code improves and/or things are added), there will come a time when Genesis will not work as expected. DAZ own practices bear this out. When a new generation of figure is released, development and improvement on the old generation ceases.
Take a look at most of the DAZ Originals, PC releases and see who made it. Most of the time you see DAZ3D and a PA's name by it.
I don't have to convince you when the proof of what I say is right there in front of you.
So, we are to believe that by supplying PA's with the base, you now the future of DS and it's past and current figures?
I've been using DAZ figures since they were Zygote and DS wasn't even a twinkle in the DAZ developer's eyes. I've seen it from the alpha release during Christmas 2003 through the current RC. I've watched as content, not just included content but content that was sold here in the store cease to work properly in newer RC's. Whenever I filed a ticket with tech support, the inevitable response came back that the problem was due to changes in the DS sdk and there was nothing they could do about.
Unless we are to believe that DAZ intends to continue to spend money to update Genesis as the DS sdk's change (and they will change as the code improves and/or things are added), there will come a time when Genesis will not work as expected. DAZ own practices bear this out. When a new generation of figure is released, development and improvement on the old generation ceases.
The beta was a beta, and DAZ was, as I recall, always clear that compatibility was a risk. After that, content that broke due to file format changes was largely updated - or was at least available in Poser format with DS materials in the case of the old starter bundle. I would feel pretty confident that DS will continue to be able to use Genesis 1 in future, at least in the short (obviously, given the lack of a male version of G2) and medium terms and most likely in the longer (for software) term, though guarantees are of course always impossible.
I'm well aware that DO's are buyouts from PC. I can even tell you who created the Morphing Fantasy Dress.
My point is, unless I am to believe that DAZ PA's are privy to all the inner workings of DAZ, the most that can be said is that G1 works in the current release candidate of DS.
I have DS1, DS2, and DS3A still installed. Why? Because there is a plugin I paid for and find much easier and much better than anything DS natively offers that only works in last RC 1 and early RC2. I have plugins that work in RC2 but not RC3. And I have plugins that work in RC3 but have not updates for RC4.x.
You cannot with any certainty state that DAZ will put any further cash into ensuring G1 will remain compatible with DS is there is a major change to the sdk.
So, we are to believe that by supplying PA's with the base, you now the future of DS and it's past and current figures?
I've been using DAZ figures since they were Zygote and DS wasn't even a twinkle in the DAZ developer's eyes. I've seen it from the alpha release during Christmas 2003 through the current RC. I've watched as content, not just included content but content that was sold here in the store cease to work properly in newer RC's. Whenever I filed a ticket with tech support, the inevitable response came back that the problem was due to changes in the DS sdk and there was nothing they could do about.
Unless we are to believe that DAZ intends to continue to spend money to update Genesis as the DS sdk's change (and they will change as the code improves and/or things are added), there will come a time when Genesis will not work as expected. DAZ own practices bear this out. When a new generation of figure is released, development and improvement on the old generation ceases.
The beta was a beta, and DAZ was, as I recall, always clear that compatibility was a risk. After that, content that broke due to file format changes was largely updated - or was at least available in Poser format with DS materials in the case of the old starter bundle. I would feel pretty confident that DS will continue to be able to use Genesis 1 in future, at least in the short (obviously, given the lack of a male version of G2) and medium terms and most likely in the longer (for software) term, though guarantees are of course always impossible.
I'm not just talking about the beta. What compatibility was a risk? The included content or content sold in the store?
Geometry switching has been an issue since DS2. I filed multiple bug reports and sent tickets to tech support. I was told it was an sdk problem by tech support and the bugs were never resolved.
Subdividing mat poses haven't worked since DS2. They're hit or miss in DS3 and don't work at all in DS4. I gave up on bug reports long ago because they never seemed to be important to them. Tech support gave me the same tired sdk answer.
Remember the LR Skin and Light package? Released in June 2008. The vendor pulled it from the market. When asked, the reason I was given was that changes to the lighting in the latest version caused them to no longer work as expected.
DAZ doesn't make those plugins, the PAs do. So it's really up to the PA to keep those plugin's current. What you're talking about now is different than was discussed earlier.
I don't recall any sustained major issues with geometry switching in DS3, but it has been problematic in DS4 yes. Though it has been at least somewhat fixed, I think (certainly last time I tried it was possible to use content which needed it, though the parameters needed to be used differently). And yes, there have been lighting changes - since, with GC on, point lights are now usable that entails that light sets created before the change will now be at least somewhat wrong (but I can't recall the particular product so I don't know if that was the issue). But there's a big difference between problems or even outright failure with limited content types or features and abandoning a complete, widely used, figure line created by DAZ themselves. I'm not, as I said earlier, trying to offer some guarantee - obviously I can't - but I do think you are generalising inappropriately from limited cases over the next few years at least.
DAZ doesn't make those plugins, the PAs do. So it's really up to the PA to keep those plugin's current. What you're talking about now is different than was discussed earlier.
One, you are talking about what you make which is not the same as whether or not DAZ will at some point in time decide in favor of G2 over G1 as standard included content. I don't care if you make what you want when you want it.
As for the plugins, no, not all of them are PA products.
I've had issues with both the Micheal and Vicki Changing Fantasy Suits and the geometry not switching properly or not at all since version 2. The geometry switch for the M1 and M2 gens didn't work. There was always a hole in the mesh if you tried to switch from no gen hip to gen hip.
The subdividing mat pose problem was brought up just recently in Members only.
As for the lights, I never got more of an explanation from the vendor than changes to the DS lights caused them not to work as expected. This was before Ominfreaker introduced most of the lighting changes that went on become part of DS.
Not abandoning a complete, widely used figure line? How long has it been since DAZ did anything with Gen 1/2, or 3? Before V4, wasn't V3 the most popular 3D figure?
But I will stop generalizing inappropriately from the limited cases of Generation 1/2, 3, and on into Generation 4.
Some are buyouts, however most of the buyouts have been updated for DS4. Still, most of the plugins that I used to use in DS3 (such as Finder 2) were PA items, and those would need to be updated by them.
I agree except I'd put Bryce down as #1 : )
Streamlining and trimming fat is all well and good and all but unavoidable in the current economy but too much trimming can be detrimental. If such trimming leads to poor communications that cause unrest in the customer base, leads to products being released that are not working properly or even leads to a disastrous remake of the store....twice, then it's defeating the purpose and compounding problems because now you have to divert already stretched thin resources to dealing with those problems as well as trying to keep up with normal day to day operations.
I get the whole PR issue as you describe but why not tap a wonderful resource you already have in place like the fine folks who have volunteered to be admins and mods? Why not let them be your PR? Bring them into the loop more and give them the necessary info to handle PR since they're the one's that take the brunt of the heat when customers are unhappy.
Which, geometry switching issues on the first generation male aside, still work in DS - which was, I understood, your concern. If it wasn't then I've been arguing at cross-purposes, and I apologise for that.
Yeah.... that whole "silent majority" defence is never really a good idea. Most people are against childhood slavery too, but how many times a day do you or anyone else send angry letters to politicians demanding an end to it? Silence does not indicate consent. It just means you have to prioritize what you do with your time and while it may be an issue you care about there are others that are also demanding your attention.
Another aspect to the silent majority argument is apathy, how many of those not speaking up are not speaking up because they feel it does no good? To often in the forums people try to express their opinions only to have a whole slew of defenders disagree with their opinion and attack it, often without really expressing their own opinion on the topic at hand. Also I have heard from others and experienced it myself that if you're too critical with your opinion it'll get deleted and you'll be told that your opinion violates the TOU or that the forum is not the proper place and you should file a ticket with the support desk. So yeah definitely, silence does not necessarily equal satisfied customers.
I might as well jump on the bandwagon because Jasmin's words on this topic also echo my feelings.
That's a hasty conclusion to jump to. All silence means is that a person said nothing. It doesn't mean they agree or disagree with the topic. Sure if someone views this thread but says nothing it might indicate they agree with the topic. IT might also mean that they see the usual band of defenders attacking any nay sayers and they don't want to subject themselves to that. It could also mean they see their concerns or support being expressed and therefore they don't feel it necessary to repeat what's already been said. Maybe it just means they were curious as to what the general publics reaction was/is to the topic. We really should try to avoid assigning meaning to silence because it just might mean absolutely nothing.
Since some people have made a point of saying they disagree with what I wrote I will explain my thoughts here.
Firstly, and most importantly, none of us can claim to speak for a large part of the userbase. I could say "All DAZ users want lower prices" it may or may not be true, but I have no way of knowing that. Clearly some people agree with JasminSkunk, and that is fine, and to be expected. I disagree, and that also should be fine.
I believe DAZ does care what we think, it they didn't they could close down the forum and just send out emails when there were new items for sale. Some stores work that way.
It has been said that a lot of what is posted in the forums is read, but a lot of conflicting opinions are posted, so which should they listen too? me, you, PA's? We can't all push DAZ in different directions, or expect to do so. Even in this thread people are suggesting differing 'priority lists'.
One thing I do agree with is that there hasn't been a clear explanation of why Genesis 2 was created instead of modifying Genesis 1. I have read, here and elsewhere, that some people don't like the gender neutral base. Maybe DAZ is listening to those customers? Whatever the reason I am happy with genesis 2 and V6 and I'm not afraid to say so.
On the subject of DAZ just wants as much money as possible, again I disagree. Right now there are over 2300 items in the PC club for $1.99 each. I'm sure those items cost more than that to make. Some may be old, but nevertheless we are being offered a lot of items at knock down prices.
I don't have a lot of disposable income myself, so what I spend I want to get value for. and I believe I get that here.
I'm sure people will dissect what I have written and pull it apart, that's fine. It's still my opinion though.
Which, geometry switching issues on the first generation male aside, still work in DS - which was, I understood, your concern. If it wasn't then I've been arguing at cross-purposes, and I apologise for that.
Geometry switching on the first and second generation Micheal as well as geometry switching for the Mike and Vicki Changing Fantasy Suits. The suits used geom switching for just about every part. I filed bug reports during DS2 but nothing was every done, the first releases of DS3 didn't solve it so I stopped smacking my head against a wall and only used them in Poser. When DS3 was released, the bug report was closed.
Some are buyouts, however most of the buyouts have been updated for DS4. Still, most of the plugins that I used to use in DS3 (such as Finder 2) were PA items, and those would need to be updated by them.
I'll skip the sarcastic comment about whether or not I know which vendor is responsible for what products. Suffice it to say that not all plugins you may be familiar with are all the plugins that have come and gone and not all of them were PA products.
Genesis 1 and 2 are different from previous figures and included content. Prior to DS4, included content came from the DAZ catalog and was sold in the store. You could buy M2 and V2 RR and the Egyptian Content. You could buy the Fairy Forest Content. You could buy V4 and all the other content included in the beach scene.
Genesis is different. It is not sold as a stand alone figure. Outside of DS4.x, it essentially does not exist. You cannot go into the store and purchase the base figure. You can purchase the morphs, the textures, and clothing but not the actual base mesh. Same holds true for G2F. This is the crux of it. If for whatever reason, including the fact that some future improvement breaks it, will DAZ fix the break or will they just release a new version of DS and tell users that Gensis 1 is no longer part of the included content?
Geometry switching on the first and second generation Micheal as well as geometry switching for the Mike and Vicki Changing Fantasy Suits. The suits used geom switching for just about every part. I filed bug reports during DS2 but nothing was every done, the first releases of DS3 didn't solve it so I stopped smacking my head against a wall and only used them in Poser. When DS3 was released, the bug report was closed.
I don't have the first generation figures (M1 and M2 are the same figure) installed, and I'm not sure I have the Changing Fantasy Suits at all, but the Victoria Changing Ponytail is mostly working in the current build of 4.6 - there flaw is no slider, it's necessary to pick the part from a drop-down list instead.
I have Changing Fantasy Suit installed, and I just did some tests in DS 4.6. I don't know if it working as intended but geometry can be switched manually if you select a bodypart
Geometry switching on the first and second generation Micheal as well as geometry switching for the Mike and Vicki Changing Fantasy Suits. The suits used geom switching for just about every part. I filed bug reports during DS2 but nothing was every done, the first releases of DS3 didn't solve it so I stopped smacking my head against a wall and only used them in Poser. When DS3 was released, the bug report was closed.
I don't have the first generation figures (M1 and M2 are the same figure) installed, and I'm not sure I have the Changing Fantasy Suits at all, but the Victoria Changing Ponytail is mostly working in the current build of 4.6 - there flaw is no slider, it's necessary to pick the part from a drop-down list instead.
Like I said before, I gave up on using it in DS back when the bug report was closed without resolution. The CFS like the VCP sort of, mostly work. In this version. Will it work in DS5? Who knows? Does it really matter anymore? Not really, I suppose. In the end what happens, happens.