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Natural Eyes for Genesis 8 [Commercial]

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  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,746
    chevybabe25 said:

     

    I honestly never anticipated people having trouble with this - but I'll make this right :)

    Your products are always awesome - I use the heck out of your Backlight hair shaders and I absolutely love them. This product is also quite good - I really like the different scleras, the added detail with the morphs and normals look wonderful, and the irises are GOREGEOUS! This is really a fantastic product, just maybe needs a minor tweak or two to really polish it. I'm really pleased with the product and the huge variety it gives for eyes - every one of the irises look so good. I'm impressed with the amount of work you put into this and the added customer service afterword! Thank you! :)

  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 4,078
    edited October 2018

    I'm going to agree with @outrider42. If I have to render overnight to clear clear eyes, it's not worth it. As much as I love what I see in the promos, Project EYEray gives excellent results and doesn't require ovenoght rendering for clear results.

    I really want to like this and will give it a few tries, but render times significantly longer than I normally get with my 980TI will result in a (regretable) return.

    Post edited by fastbike1 on
  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,274

    Thanks Diva :) I truly appreciate it.

    @ Fastbike - in your options folder you can just select thin walled on and this should render no problem at all without having to have long render times. In the meantime I am working on an update that should help people figure these out better.

  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,977

    My first try with a character with skin, hair etc.  Set it up to render and fell asleep on 2 Batman movies.  Seems like the Sclera needs some more veins or something.  Very nice result 

     

    Monday.png
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  • TynkereTynkere Posts: 834
    edited October 2018
    Richard Haseltine said:

    I think the results also depend on the surfaces and structure in the rest of the scene - if everything else converges quite quickly then (with the quality option in play) it's likely that the overall convergence target will be hit while the eyes are still very noisy since they are likely to be a very small proportion of the image; if the rest of the scene (due to materials, or to the way that the objects interact) converges more slowly, or if the eyes account for a larger proportion of the image area, then they will be able to converge more fully by the time the render stops.

    Might be the case on my end.  Very fortunate to live near buy-sell-trade shop so have couple of nice cards.  In this case though, they went too fast.  : 0 !

     

    Oso3D said:

    I find refraction and very thin layered surfaces tricky and I suspect buggy, so yeah, thin wall on is important.

     

    Think wall off/on (if I understand correctly) was a puzzle.  With it off, iris & sclera were dk brown 'revenant' color.  Went into Surfaces tab > Cornea & Eye Moisture, and switched "Share Glossy Inputs" from "on" to "off."  Then it worked fine.  A mystery...

     

    outrider42 said:
    May I ask what graphics cards everyone is using? That may sort this out a bit, too.

     

    In my opinion, 2 hours to render a character without hair and still have noise is kind of excessive. That's without hair, with hair you could be talking an all nighter. I know patience is virtue, but some people don't have this luxury.@comets you really gotta render more than 0%, downsampling or not. Of course ears and hair are not converged at 0%. What people are saying is they run full convergence and the eyes are still pixelated. If allow the render to go longer, I believe you'll see the same.

    First two: thin wall eyes “On”

    Render settings:

    2922 x 2192
    Max sample: 15k
    Max Time 21.6k
    qual 3 @ 98%
    Max Path 10
    -----
    Averaged about 21 minutes with no noise.

    Messing around Darius and ‘mood’ lighting.  Thin walled 'off.' 

    The fastest I could get it to go was 32 seconds with default of qual 1 at 95%.  Quite grainy.

    The longest I let Darius run was 20 minutes with quality disabled.  99.5% with Max time set at 21.6k   

    That one also took around 20 minutes before it ‘looked’ finished, so I cut it off.

    ----
    i-7 @ 4.0 GHz
    Device 0: Xp at 1949 MHz -- 70C
    Device 1: P5000 at 1733.5 MHz -- 56C

    Too dark and not a very good portrait, but the idea was to see how long to get rid of grain in very low light.

     

    chevybabe25 said:
    We can keep this thread open and I can answer any questions anyone has..  I can also offer extra tips that I have if anyone needs or wants them. 

    Cool!  I know you must very busy right now, and probably stressed.  sad

    When you have the time though, am interested in the reflection files.  Found them if want to use as templates, but where do they go in surfaces tab?  Obviously no luck when I looked for them.  Just thinking that ability to make my own custom 'reflections' would open up a whole range of possibilities. :)

     

    Best wishes, everyone, and enjoy week

    --Bruce

    Post edited by Tynkere on
  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 4,078
    edited October 2018

    Okay folks, did some testing between Project EYEray and Natural Eyes. Interesting results. @chevybabe25, FWIW I'll be keeping Natural Eyes if for no other reason than I admire the work.

    My machine is an I7-4770K 3.5GHz. 32GB Ram, GTX 980ti. Below are crops from the original renders. Both renders were 1500x1500. Same scene except for the eyes. for Natural Eyes thinwalled was ON. No other internal settings changes.Both renders took almost exactly the same time and same iterations. Projects EYEray 58m 25s, 4839 iterations. Natural Eyes 57m 57s 4829 iterations. Comments and advice welcomed (especially @chevybabe25). I'll put the full sized images in my gallery for inspection, https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/users/5891

    You be the judge.

    Project EYERay

     

    Natural Eyes

     

    Capture PEYEray.PNG
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    CaptureNatEyes.PNG
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    Post edited by fastbike1 on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,746

    Rendered this while doing laundry and other housework.

    Thin Wall ON, Headlamp OFF

     

    (I used your Backlight Hair Shader here too.)

     

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,620

    Fastbike nice renders, I like the look of the Natural eyes better but like you stated before if it takes too long to render what is the point. I have 2 titan x's and most of my renders are under 10 mins. If it takes more time I start turning on more lights and making sure everything is well lit. Iray is a terrible low light render engine, if I have to do low light enviroments I usually go with a different render engine, or I render huge and down scale the image to remove fireflies. For me speed matters.

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,274

    @Tynkere - just a little stress :)  Those are opacity maps that go on the cornea surface.

    @ALLIEKATBLUE - she looks gorgeous! Did you use the fake reflections?

    @fastbike those look great!  And thank you for running that test!  Just a fun tip:  When thin wall is ON - you can fake the cornea depth with the shadow with rings overlay ( and you can change the color to match the iris better by selecting the iris surface and just changing the overlay color)

    @Divamakeup  - Fantastic Render.  I love how her eyes sparkle in that image!!!!!!

    I think I have concluded that I need to write a pdf  tutorial so that I don't frustrate anyone else :)

  • davesodaveso Posts: 7,167
    chevybabe25 said:

    Because there is refraction on the eye settings, better render settings are required to get a less noisey result.  You can try upping the min and max samples, and/ or  reduce the max time to zero so it doesn't time out before it finishes rendering.   Also- if it takes a whole week and a day (exaggerating) to actually finish rendering, you can always try and shut the refraction off though it probably wont look as nice/ or the same as the promo renders.

    I actually have my render settings  as : min samples 100, max samples 15000, and max time at 0.  Then I just stop my render when it looks clear.

    I have to assume that my renders would be forever as I do not have an Nvidia GPU and use CPU rendering, and this product, even though it looks awesome, is something I should pass on. 

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,045

    Even if you don't use any of the Natural Eyes settings, there's still having 60 really high quality iris maps.

     

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,274

    @daveso - with thin walled on ( an option that is already provided in the product) makes it so that  it  takes no longer to render than any other eye product :) 

  • davesodaveso Posts: 7,167
    edited October 2018
    chevybabe25 said:

    @daveso - with thin walled on ( an option that is already provided in the product) makes it so that  it  takes no longer to render than any other eye product :) 

    2 posted ... we need a DELETE POST function

    Post edited by daveso on
  • davesodaveso Posts: 7,167
    chevybabe25 said:

    @daveso - with thin walled on ( an option that is already provided in the product) makes it so that  it  takes no longer to render than any other eye product :) 

    thaqt is good to realize. I saw this product and said, wow .. nice laugh

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,274
    edited October 2018

    sigh.double post as well.

     

    Post edited by chevybabe25 on
  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,274

    Alrighty.. on page 1 at the very beginning of this thread, I have added a pdf file that explains options etc.  If there is something I left out or if you are having trouble accessing it, just let me know.  I will add this to a product update as well.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,954

    A portrait shot of a fully dressed character complete with skin, hair and clothes and its the eyes to blame?  I am sorry but I dont believe it.

    I wonder what tests people have done to determine that it is indeed the eye product that is causing the apparent increase of render times?

    How many different light setups have you all tried?  HDRI or meshlights or Sun/Sky.

  • DestinysGardenDestinysGarden Posts: 2,550

    I actually did a few render tests. I made the skin grey to figure how long just the eyes were taking to render. Pic1 is Zelara with Daz's default Iray materials. Render time 7 minutes, 16.48 seconds, 100% at 2254 iterations.

    Pic 2 is using one the Natural Eyes green colors. Render time 7 minutes, 45.80 seconds, 100% at 2340 iterations. I think they look 30 seconds better.

    My computer is an I7, 980 4GB video card, 16GB RAM, so nice, but not top of the line.

    z1.png
    1000 x 1300 - 1M
    z2.png
    1000 x 1300 - 1M
  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,479
    Mattymanx said:

    A portrait shot of a fully dressed character complete with skin, hair and clothes and its the eyes to blame?  I am sorry but I dont believe it.

    I wonder what tests people have done to determine that it is indeed the eye product that is causing the apparent increase of render times?

    How many different light setups have you all tried?  HDRI or meshlights or Sun/Sky.

    Persoannly I didn't really find any increase in render times. The images I posted both took about 20 minutes.

  • RedzRedz Posts: 1,459
    DestinysGarden said:

    I actually did a few render tests. I made the skin grey to figure how long just the eyes were taking to render. Pic1 is Zelara with Daz's default Iray materials. Render time 7 minutes, 16.48 seconds, 100% at 2254 iterations.

    Pic 2 is using one the Natural Eyes green colors. Render time 7 minutes, 45.80 seconds, 100% at 2340 iterations. I think they look 30 seconds better.

    My computer is an I7, 980 4GB video card, 16GB RAM, so nice, but not top of the line.

    Still a lot of noise on the eye moisture in pic 2. To my eyes it needs more time, but that’s to be expected for surfaces with refraction, like glass. 

    Thanks for the PDF Chevy, is the duplicate formulas error for G8M being addressed? 

    I think the eyes look amazing, though the grey seam at the iris/sclera junction is quite noticeable in close-ups, especially on the darker iris colours. Love the HD morphs. Would really like some shaping presets for those in the materials folder, so as not to have to go searching for them. 

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,274

    @Redz - YW. Im an updating it now and including the pdf with the update.. It should hopefully be updated soon. Do you mean like a one click deal like with a character preset? 

  • RedzRedz Posts: 1,459
    chevybabe25 said:

    @Redz - YW. Im an updating it now and including the pdf with the update.. It should hopefully be updated soon. Do you mean like a one click deal like with a character preset? 

    Exactly, presets to apply or remove the HD morphs. I’m inclined to forget they exist when they’re not in the options folder :) 

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    DestinysGarden said:

    I actually did a few render tests. I made the skin grey to figure how long just the eyes were taking to render. Pic1 is Zelara with Daz's default Iray materials. Render time 7 minutes, 16.48 seconds, 100% at 2254 iterations.

    Pic 2 is using one the Natural Eyes green colors. Render time 7 minutes, 45.80 seconds, 100% at 2340 iterations. I think they look 30 seconds better.

    My computer is an I7, 980 4GB video card, 16GB RAM, so nice, but not top of the line.

    Yeah, pic 2 is not really close to being finished. From a distance it might be OK but zooming even a little bit reveals a lot of grain. And I'm using a 5" smart phone screen at this moment. So for that image to fully converge, it will need a lot more time with render settings probably at or near 100% convergence.

    However the iris textures do look fantastic. I may still buy this but use my own settings. Being a merchant resource it may come in handy some day.
  • brimstoneomegabrimstoneomega Posts: 343

    I'm definitly still doing this wrong, lol. I got some crazy zombie/demon eyes going on (which are actually pretty cool TBH, but pretty sure not the effect these are supposed to give). I used the sweet HD morphs for the eyes, my character is at sub-d 4, used cornea buldge morph, and the Green 9 iris color. Do I need to change the sclera as well? Or use the other settings? Maybe more lights, I only used two emissive lights and no HDRI. I attached some pics to show what I used for render settings, and also the finished render.

     

     

    Screenshot (13).png
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    Eye Test 1.png
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  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,274

    Brimstone- I am completely unsure what is going on there.   Maybe try selecting a different eye and doing a quick spot render? My guess is that studio is doing something wonky and may need to be restarted.

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,274

    Redz - I had already submitted the update prior to you suggesting that.  If it should get kicked back, I'll look into adding that as well..

  • RedzRedz Posts: 1,459
    chevybabe25 said:

    Redz - I had already submitted the update prior to you suggesting that.  If it should get kicked back, I'll look into adding that as well..

    Not to worry, I can DIY it :)

  • StormlyghtStormlyght Posts: 666
    chevybabe25 said:

    Alrighty.. on page 1 at the very beginning of this thread, I have added a pdf file that explains options etc.  If there is something I left out or if you are having trouble accessing it, just let me know.  I will add this to a product update as well.

    Thank you for taking the time to create it!

    Trish

  • StormlyghtStormlyght Posts: 666
    chevybabe25 said:

    @Stormlyght

    In order to avoid the dreaded white rings.. you need to have thin walled off, and glossy off. Reflections can be a choice for you at that point.. whether you would like iray to do them or fake them with the provided reflects.

    Hi,

    Thank you for responding. I tried again with glossy off and it looked even more "odd." I finally had to make the decision to use something else for the eyes for that particular render. I'll keep trying in some test renders; It is most likely user error.

    Trish

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,274

    That is a dang typo- It should be thin walled on Trish. Sigh.

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