I'm a loser and tired of it.
kyoto kid
Posts: 41,205
...what does it take to win or even place a challenge here?
I spend a tonne of time, setting up scenes, running render tests to make sure everything is right and nothing comes from it. In the nearly six years I have been here, I only received one award and that was in the now defunct Wallpaper Challenge (and that was a second place finish). I stopped entering contests like Stonemason challenge because I don't have the likes of 3DS, C4D, Vue, Photoshop, or other pro grade software that I could never afford on my budget. I feel that Daz sponsored contests should only allow works created in Daz software (Studio, Carrara, Bryce) and Poser. It is unfair to allow those who can afford thousands of $ to compete against the rest of us who do not have the resources to purchase the upscale software tools. I feel like is kind of like going into a race with a 1978 Honda Civic against someone with a miutimillion$ F1 V-12 race car. We basically do not stand a chance. They have their own competitions. let then go against each other and stay out of our "playground".
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2025 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
Yeah, that's why back when I managed to host a couple challenges myself before DAZ got tighter on their policies, I used to have "Studio Only" and "No Postwork" rules to ensure a completely fair-leveled playing ground amongst the pros, non-pros, and general hobbyists alike. And trust me, I've seen some works of such standard by non-pro artists that were far better than some of the pros with the postwork.
Hell, I've even impressed myself before a couple times before by my simply standard renders like the ones in my Art Studio Thread.
I gave up long ago - for what you said and other things ( which I will not say ) .
I think we know what they are .
I don't place often myself but I have won thing before... and I do not have any of those pricey things. I use DS4 (free) and GIMP (also free). Also sculptris for making stuff (also free).
DS is quite capable of high quality. I wish I could paint and postwork like some of the folks I see around here- that's amazing.... but yeah I have a long ways to go. I just add some saturation and contrast and slap a logo on, usually.
if you limit to only DAZ softwares you leave out the freewares that are easily obtainable
i can afford the thousand dollar plus wares but refuse to use them, i use a freeware that most hate.....blender
killer renders can be made for free if you are willing to work for it
and kyoto ive seen some of your work and its not bad
maybe an only freebie contest only?
I don't think they judge the contests by how much post-work or what programs were used. Expensive programs just make it easier or faster to get the work done. And if you wanted, you could get the CS2 version of Photoshop (google it), which is every bit as good as the current bloatware for most things. And then there is Gimp, which is free. I have PS CS5 thankfully, because I really find Gimp awkward to use, but maybe that's because I've been using PS professionally since Version 2. IMO version 4 was the nicest upgrade of the bunch.
Like Simpleplanning said, I've seen some fantastic work come out of nothing but free programs. Here's a list of some common/popular replacements:
3DSMax: Blender - this also has sculpting tools now so you can use it in place of Zbrush as well.
Zbrush: Sculptris
Photoshop: Gimp
Illustrator: Inkscape
Audio Creation/Editing: Audacity
There is also a fantastic site called alternativeto.net that lets you look up a ton of programs and find equivalents. You can sort by platform, commercial, open source, free, shareware, etc. I've used it frequently.
Keep in mind, it's not the program that makes art good, it's how the artist uses it.
Hey Kyoto Kid..hope you are not feeling down... you are not a loser... you are a valued, active (6454 posts.. wow), well respected member of the DAZ forum community and a very good artist. The only contest prize I ever got here was one where there were few entries and they forgot to judge it .. so they gave everybody who entered a free product:)
i go through cnet or www.downloads.com to find freewares that are free of viruses and adware
but then before i open it i scan it through virustotal www.virustotal.com
I haven't been to download.com in forever. lol If you're interested, the site I posted is just a lookup site that links to the official site for each program. No downloads are hosted on the actual site.
Also don't forget to watch Giveawayoftheday! its a free software daily! Most times its just stuff like free screen savers but also got a couple nice things along the way.
I understand limited budget. Especially this year, because I was denied a working visa.... what a rough year it's been! So thankful for free resources!
...the CS2 thing was a total bust. It was only intended for those who still had a licence for it.
700$ for the current PS or ZBrush is well out of my means. Vue infinite, Lightwave, 3DS, or C4D, well hope I can win a lottery. When I see works by the likes of Isikol, or Neelz I realise there is little point in even submitting.
Heck according to the "Blender Guru" you shouldn't admit that you did your portfolio in Blender since the CG Industry doesn't take it seriously because it's open source.
I actually have little issue going up against Blender as very few actually use it because of the difficult to grasp UI. However, those who have the resources to afford multi-thousand dollar software should not be competing against us who have to scrape by hoping to win a GC or maybe the latest copy of say Poser Pro or Vue Studio. In the sports world, they call that "sandbagging". If we were to enter one of their challenges we'd be laughed off the site after being insulted for our feeble attempts at using what they refer to as "software toys"
Just looking for a little parity.
Most if not ALL contest here are judged by user Votes or other Large groups that vote. Every image is judged on the render, NOT on what it was made with or by whom. When a Contest has 20 images in it and only three places for winners some people just can not win. The more you try and the more contests you enter is the only way a person can ever win.
...I look at the Stonemason contests and usually it's someone with high end apps who wins. I entered it only once using Carrara 6 (which was a huge outlay for me at the time) and spent a lot of time setting things up and pushing boundaries, all for naught.
When even contests like the RRRR allow pro grade apps, there is no point. Shoot even the Daz Creative Contest on DA accepts submissions that use apps like C4D and 3DS in the process. At least I thought that would be one haven where the field was somewhat even.
With being unemployed and all the changes to store policy and the PC, about the only way I can hope to acquire new tools and content is through placing in or winning challenges.
Actually, it's a very gray area. Adobe's license states you only need to acquire it from them, not purchase. While the intent was to have a way for the older purchasers of the suite to redownload it (since they were migrating the servers), the license keys are provided as well, meaning anyone can acquire them. However, in the time (it's been over half a year), Adobe has not taken it down (and probably never will). The suite has been downloaded millions of times at this point and the ambiguity of the wording in the license makes it extremely unlikely Adobe will pursue you or any of those millions of people.
I use CS4, and I don't really have a problem with people getting CS2 for free. It actually is good since pirates will never bother pirating CS2 and it gives Adobe a way to give people a free taste (sort of an accidental marketing ploy).
In any case, it's up to you to use the suite or not. Power to you, either way. :coolsmile:
As for the contests, well, them's the breaks, my friend. I joined the last Stonemason contest knowing full well I can't match the firepower, but at the very least, work on the postwork to make it artistic. I have no problems with postwork being a factor, since that's where you can personalize your entry and not just rely on how powerful your rig is. If you still lose, hey, you did your best. But it's no fault of the winners or the others that they have more than what you do.
In the end, though, just do it for fun and the spirit of competitiveness. But most of all, you take away an experience in learning how to use the tools you have. Honing your skills has far more value than whatever prize is being offered. :coolsmile:
the bloat ware makers can tell me that blender and all free softwares are wrong all they want but i can do everything that they can do for free
i have a copy of the pixar software but its almost useless because i do the same work in a freeware
ive never tried gimp because i have photoshop cs5 extended that was given to me
i have never pid for a single model yet, i simply learned how to make them myself, and what i did make and do make i give away
ive never entered the contests because noone wants the blender users
maybe thats why they do it, to keep blender out of the running so they seem better?
...Chohole posted the definitive answer on the CS2 "giveaway" a while back and it was solely intended for current CS2 licence holders only as Adobe was no longer going to support it. In my book that makes it illegal to download for non licence holders.
I have a thing about software piracy and Warez sites. I have actually reported incidents where I've seen content (some that I wish I could afford) pirated since most (if not all) content creators make a meager living at this.
And I bought a Camera which said in it's documentation that images taken with it were Not Intended For Commercial Use!
Does that mean I can't use it that way?
I called them, and they said Commercial Use was fine - it's just not intended for that use.
I read the CS2 thing the same way. I use many things in ways they were not intended. Nothing in the wording forbids use in ways that are not intended, and it could easily have been phrased as such. In my book that makes it a mass give-away and perfectly legal for anybody to download and use.
But back on topic...
I hardly ever win anything in contests either, but have placed a couple times, and gotten an honorable mention once or twice.
I'm more interested in developing my own style than winning anything. But I do REALLY want to win some stuff too, as I am also too poor to even upgrade my Carrara to the new version.
It's just more important to me to keep developing my skills and style than to make images I think will appeal to the judges.
It's not my fault they refuse to make contests that require the use of a Cow in some way.
If they did... I'd stand a much better chance!
I know the feeling, comrade, that's unfair because you are a true artist and a very knowledged forum user and very active, about the expensive software, is not the key or a requisite for win, I have Zbrush 4r6, Modo and Keyshot and even with this software stuff I gave up entering contests here because I have the sense of, about winning contests here, is more important the "popular guy in forum" than the skilled ones like you.
but having a prize here is not relevant, I would try being recognized in CG Society or Deviantart for the best.
Just so KK knows, it took me 3 years, and well over 50 renders before I ever won, placed or showed in any contest I entered. All done with DS2, DS3 or DS3A. If you start at the gate thinking I can not win then you defeat yourself before you even try. And I've Won once and Placed once in all that time, it never was expected that I would win or place. I just enjoyed and did what I wanted to do. Nothing more and that was all.
oh screw winning lol, render to have fun.
and it's one way to feel part of the 'community'.
Chohole gave the definitive answer for posting the links to the download on the forums. Since she doesn't work for Adobe it'd be kind of hard for her to say exactly what their stance on the whole thing is.
The links and stories about this have been available on major tech news sites since the beginning of the year and Adobe has not responded or forced them to pull them. Not saying they think it's ok it's just that they're not doing anything about it.
Whether or not you choose to download it is between you and your conscience. I will say that since you're getting it directly from Adobe and they're not stopping you it doesn't meet the criteria for piracy., any more than people using coupons in ways they weren't really intended to get stuff for free.
For me, except for running some PS specific scripts, I can do pretty much anything in Gimp or even Photoshop Elements that I can do in the full blown version. Of course my post work skills leave a lot to be desired so even the fanciest tool becomes a hammer in my hands. :)
On the subject of the contests, I've only been entering since back in May and most of those were the Freebie challenge which is limited tools, minimum number of items must be freebies and no post work allowed. I won honorable mention on one of those because the theme spoke to me and I was able to come up with something that fit it really well. I think if you the theme of the contest speaks to you and you can see the image you want to do as soon as you read it you'll have a better shot.
By the way the only tool I use is DS. I have Poser 2012, Blender, Sculptris, Bryce and now Carrara 8.5. None of which I'm comfortable enough with to produce anything remotely decent.
I've got no idea what the winners used as that was never part of the judging process,I'm guessing they were just DS or Poser renders,what it comes down to is good composition,good use of story telling and overall quality,what you render in has no bearing at all on the winners...sorry if you saw it that way.
I would add hat trying to win contests isn't a great way of improving your skills,maybe post some wip threads and ask for feedback instead?
thanks
Stefan
I agree that DAZ contests should be limited to DAZ only products (or at least be clearly marked "pro" v "amateur"). That being said,... I'll risk repeating something that I fear once seemed to cause the closing and deleting of a thread almost immediately after I said it. 8-o
I think people misunderstand the purpose of contests. Contests are not for the winners, but instead are for the losers. There are many more losers than winners. It is so much more productive to enter a contest expecting to be a loser because you are successful almost every time. It's good for one's ego to have so many successes under one's belt.
Personally though, I never enter art contests. Hate the damn things with a passion. Primarily because they are so subjective. Rules can be conjured up to try to de-subjectify them, but it's all smoke and mirrors and in the end a tiny number of oversized egos toss a coin and pick one as the "winner". Better to just open your own storefront or other display medium and do your own advertising. If you're good, really good then honest people will at least recognize it and perhaps even beat a path to your door. If you're not really really good then you can try to join the throngs of mediocre "artists" around the world who snooker naïve people out of hard earned money through uber-snobbish gallery recommendations.
Delight in your own works, and to hell with what other people think. (unless you need to put food on the table)
that's a good idea.
Or do what many others have done and start a Portfolio type render thread of your art in the Art Studio http://www.daz3d.com/forums/categories/2/.
To judge a contest right- and this is my opinion- you not only need to have skill level considered but subject matter.
I honestly don't think landscapes should be judged against a human-figure category.
In general though, the last daz-sponsored contest I entered left a bad taste in my mouth. It was done on facebook and was judged based on the number of votes an individual received.
Oh yeah! :-s The unimpeachable accuracy of an open web count. Oy!
This!
I've never really entered a contest to win it. I've mainly entered the monthly freebie and PC Inspiration contests and I look at them more as Challenges than contests. They give me a theme or set of guidelines to work with and challenge me to come up with something that fits. Sometimes others like it and sometimes they don't. In every instance I've gotten some useful feedback though so it was worth it.
It's not like the expensive programs and post work magically make people better at what they do.
They have to to work at it just like the rest of us. why shouldn't they be recognized for their work.
I have won my share of contests and all i use is Gimp and what ever daz has out for free at the time for programs.
Yes i use the evil Postwork and while i may not be very good what little skill i do have was not magically thrust onto me by making a deal with Satan but i did have years of just experimenting and i still hate damn near everything i do because it's not the quality of people i look up to like masterwolf or isikol or other in a list to long to name here.
I mean if you end up entering a contest where the playing field is even by limiting the software to daz studio only for example and no postwork at all and still end up losing then who do you end up blaming then.there is no such thing as an even playing field. where does it end. there will be people who win and people who lose. it sucks but we don't all get participation ribbons.
Postwork can work against the artist though. Too much of that makes me think they're covering up a lack of substance.
I know people might be curious, so let me say a couple things about judging. Although new to 3D (about a year) I was a freelance national magazine artist for awhile in a previous life. I helped judge the creature creation one by Scott-L. I spent hours looking up background information on characters that were referenced because I wanted to see if the artist captured the spirit of the critter. I had a page of notes on almost every single entry if they made it past the first scrutiny (see next paragraph.)
I had columns and scrolled through all entries (and couldn't tell you who did what, never looked) and checked off who had the basics first. My columns were intent/message obvious, poses/body language, character interaction, lighting, shadows, color, overall composition, use of space/negative, facial expressions, set contribution, and a column to note errors (poke through, etc) for the first round. If you didn't have 6 of those things checkmarked (excluding errors of course) then the likelihood of a second look was slim. After that, I went back and assigned a number value to each one of those, added notes specific to each entry regarding other aspects, and that took an entire day. Then there was the next checklist... you get the idea.
Just want to assure you that judges really have to commit to scrutinizing every little detail- I had a checklist for several parts of the body! For instance- hair for pokethrough, the hair for wind (if other parts of the scene were blowing a certain direction, was your hair at a standstill?) and for shoulders- which I often found underused and stiff, weren't turned toward the other figure they were interacting with, etc.
Postwork wasn't even noted. The overall feel (which postwork could, note COULD, have an advantage) wouldn't be enough to increase the scores I was giving. It wouldn't help with posing, use of space, facial expressions, character interaction (meaning the characters themselves, not a glowing magic sphere being tossed between them) basic composition, etc.
So I'll say again- postwork can add oomph, but it wouldn't get you past the basic checklist that I screen with on the rare occasion that I would be a judge. I know I'm not alone in that regard. But I happen to agree strongly with having competitions separated for postwork vs just straight renders. Level the playing field so far as "overall effect."