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...I tried that and none of the ambient or skylights transferred over, only the primary (sun) so the shadows looked terrible.
...I tried that and none of the ambient or skylights transferred over, only the primary (sun) so the shadows looked terrible.
to bad .
look at it this way -
if you win - happy happy
if you lose - you be blue
either way the next day you start over .
so nothing changed .
Don't blame your lack of winning on your lack of software. Only a bad carpenter blames his tools. Look at that 97 year old guy that makes amazing art using nothing but MS Paint. You can't just press a button and create an award-winning render. You still have to be artistically talented/creative.
Photoshop is bloated, overpriced and overkill. If you're using a Mac you can't complain about the lack of software. You can get Pixelmator for $15 bucks and it's an incredible Photoshop alternative. Not to mention, there seems to be a new software bundle every week or so from someone that's chock-full of creative apps.
and if you didn't know how old he is or any thing else - no body would vote for him .
lets be honest .
I did stuff like this years ago .
Wise words icprncss... sounds like you speak from experience. I've always made money with my "crafts" whether it was teaching classes for sewing or making things for a craft show. This 3d stuff is all new to me. I just figured the contests were a start. I know I'm never to old to learn new tricks.. but time IS ticking.. tick tock... lol... I'll keep plugging along and figure things out... SOMEHOW. :) THANK you for your words of wisdom :)
...for me it's not making a living at this as it is just trying to defray some of the cost of keeping up with it. The coupons are nice until I see I have to make a 30$ or 40$ purchase to take advantage of them. I cannot afford that. The sales that require purchasing 3 items to get a 50%, discount, I cannot afford that either (fortunately the PA Festival allowed PC members to get the full 50% even on one item - hopefully this is a trend that will continue in future sales events as it makes having a membership more valuable).
icprncss is right, to get a real job in the field, you need a good portfolio. It's been that way since before there was any computer graphic software. Do you have any coursework, certificates from a school of college? Those help as well. Also in the field of CG based design, and production, experience on your resume (as well as examples in your portfolio) using applications like Illustrator, Photoshop, Painter, Maya, or 3DS are what help to get a foot in the door as these are the programmes used in the industry.
Personally I really don't want this to be a job, because as icprncss says: In the end, the person paying for your work has the final say.. You wont be doing your own ideas, you will be doing what sales and marketing wants. This is why I never followed my interest in architecture after I learned spending 6 years in college would only net me an apprenticeship (basically doing schlep work at the agency for several years before I could hope to submit my first design for even so much as an addition to a house).
The same with cooking. Some ask me why don't I go to chef's school? Well, I used to be in the restaurant biz and in my off time I'd usually went out to eat as cooking was my job and the last thing I wanted to do was take my work home with me. Now I love to cook, I find it both relaxing and rewarding especially when I know what I've created cost a mere fraction of what it would in a restaurant.
So you have to ask yourself, is this what you really want to do for a living, and if so will you still have an interest in doing it in your free time?
You also have to ask yourself, are you in this hobby to create amazing art that brings you enjoyment, or are you in it to win a render contest?
I couldn't care less about winning some random render contest. I do it because creating something beautiful brings me satisfaction and I find the creation of art very therapeutic. Sure, it's nice to get a pat on the back every now and then, but you can't have a case of sour grapes when you don't win.
It's so true about what you say "is this what you really want to do for a living". In my experience, it stops becoming fun when it becomes a job. There's so may others thing I do on the side as hobbies and everyone's always telling me that I should get a job doing it. I always have the same answer..."then it won't be fun any more".
Hey bro, I don't think I've ever won a contest on this site either; Every time I enter in fact, I end up feeling like Charlie Brown when Lucy brings out that football.
And I'm a professionally published artist with four book covers and several sets of interior art under my belt..
That said, there are plenty of contests out there you can do well in; look up Dream Slayer Artworks.. they have several monthly contests with great prize line ups...
Have you tried this lighting
http://www.daz3d.com/platinum-club-items/hdr-prosets-yosemite-pack-one
Wise words icprncss... sounds like you speak from experience. I've always made money with my "crafts" whether it was teaching classes for sewing or making things for a craft show. This 3d stuff is all new to me. I just figured the contests were a start. I know I'm never to old to learn new tricks.. but time IS ticking.. tick tock... lol... I'll keep plugging along and figure things out... SOMEHOW. :) THANK you for your words of wisdom :)
I don't know if you play rpg's, but there are bunches of products over at Drivethrurpg.com that are basically renders. Some are stock art for people to use in books for publication. Others, as far as I can tell, are pretty much renders of sets from a few different angles, one top down with a grid draped over it, and then a setting and scenario or two attached.
THANK YOU DaWaterRat... I'll give them a look.. the only rpg game I play is Second Life. Even there I make a little money from my hobby... In fact.. if it weren't for what I made there.. I'd not be able to buy half of what I do at DAZ... ALL my profits from SL are going to DAZ.. it simply MUST stop... I need better willpower.. That's one reason why I'm quitting PC club... So I won't be tempted.. lol.
Back on the old DAZ3D site, I used to enter the $25 voucher contests each month and would win fairly regularly, with images created on the older versions of DS and Bryce. I'm not a pro or anything, completely self-taught, but somehow my pics ended up being chosen from time to time.
Occasionally I would do something that I thought was a sure bet (e.g. a scantily-clothed-Victoria-with-sword), but overall I couldn't really predict what sort of images would be winners. I just created pictures for myself, and if other people also enjoyed and voted for them, all the better! :-)
...I actually have it but like most HDR sets it is UE based and thus I find it difficult to adjust the lighting to get the results I am looking for.
Spent a good amount of time mucking around yesterday with UE in the scene I pulled from the PC challenge and still can't get it to look right. None of the presets really work (several of them delete the other lights I have in the scene) and I just cannot seem to get it to balance well with the rest of the lights in the scene.
Again AoA will be releasing the Advanced Ambient Light sometime in the next few weeks which also can be used as a skylight (akin to what LDP employed). There were a couple demo pics on the WIP thread that looked extremely close to the quality I used to get with LDP.
THANK YOU DaWaterRat... I'll give them a look.. the only rpg game I play is Second Life. Even there I make a little money from my hobby... In fact.. if it weren't for what I made there.. I'd not be able to buy half of what I do at DAZ... ALL my profits from SL are going to DAZ.. it simply MUST stop... I need better willpower.. That's one reason why I'm quitting PC club... So I won't be tempted.. lol.
Cool. I've thought about trying to sell sets of character art there as well, I've just never gotten anything I was happy with putting a competitive price on.
Drivethroughrpg is mostly for Table-Top games (D&D/Pathfinder, Vampire: the Masquerade, etc.) so the market may not quite be what you're used to with second life (which, admittedly, I don't play) but it shouldn't be that different.
Very true. My job is my passion right now, and till now I had lot of fun and I know I'm very fortunate because that is not the case for everyone. But as time goes by, I feel that I have less fun than before. Everything has to come to an end
There is one point that wasn't said : as you're focusing on tools, may be you try to use the wrong tools.
Not everyone is made for polygon modeling and may be you'd be better with sculpting tools (Blender Sculpt mode or Sculptris or any other tools alike). You could be better with a CAD like application if you like to work with precise measurements (Ok that's a bit tricky for life like models)
And may be blender or other pro apps are a bit too complicated and you should use simpler programs. I always loved the simpleness of metasequoia for example. Being comfortable with your tool is important to be creative
However if you want, you can still try to get PLE versions of VUE and other Pro softwares free as long as it is only for learning (I had a Maya PLE and VUE PLE but never put the time and effort to learn). Pro modelling software like 3DSMax, Maya, Softimage etc...for me mean long time to study before being able to do anything good and one has to be ready to invest the time if going that path. And I'm sure that you'll also get some frustrating time, pro software or not
As for 2D applications, I had a go with Artrage, Artweaver, Dogwaffle when I was looking for a 2D paint app that felt like real painting . I know most people don't paint over their renders but that is a way to put a unique look and a personal touch. I find Gimp to be a killer app with all the ressource and script it has for retouching apps. Krita is a good challenger to look at
Same goes for rendering. The workflow may not be as straight forward as in DS but there are other free engines available like Kerkythea, Povray, Appleseed ,Yafaray, Mitsuba, Nox, Blender cycles/Internal/freestyle, etc...
Big names are not always the best suited for everyone and if doing standard basic thing is a good way to begin, there is a time when developing your own way is the way to go
But I'm talking about art. If you want to work in 3D industry then sure, you have to know some Industry Proven Softwares. And there I'd advice to go back to school if you can.
The contests that I've won, I didn't try to win. I didn't use all of the tools I have, nor did I use lots of "expensive" models. In every case, the idea was just something that struck me at the last moment. Something that made me laugh, blush, or tear up -- and in a few cases, made a point. And NEVER have I used GIMP or PS on a winning 3D contest render.
IMO, if you are entering a contest to win, you've already lost. The impetus to enter should be to compete. One does not win every kumite/chess/tennis/basketball/whatever contest one enters. For those times when you don't win, learn. As long as you are moving beyond your skills to enter, then you've already won.
Art contests are, by their very nature, a pageant. Judges will make subjective calls on what wins and the most "technically correct" or "most detailed" render is not guaranteed to win. Even the most technically competent gymnast or ice skater won't necessarily win. If it looks like the performer is/was not enjoying what s/he is doing, they won't likely win no matter haw good they are. Enjoy what you are doing, make a picture that says what you want to say. Grow your skills, then you've lost nothing.
Now, about the costs. One can make fantastically moving pictures with just DS and freebies. Will it be easy? No. It won't be easy with Maya or C4D or either. How many of you have actually used any of the "big boys"? They are not easy to use, nor will they instantly give you a great result. In fact, they are deliberately hard to use. The companies presume that if one has spent the money to purchase the tool, then one has the where-with-all to jump through the flaming hoops to use the software. It is incredibly easy to create utter garbage, or to be left with nothing, after a long session with Maya or the others.
On to the content: Sometimes having a good base helps. I have good friends who make excellent models that act as a basis for great ideas. But their models are just the BASE. Alessandro's excellent animals or RawArt's wonderful creatures aren't going to instantly give you a winning render. Tossing excellent content into a scene and throwing LuxRender, Octane, Renderman, or whatever at them to render will not give you a winning image -- it will give you an advertisement for those models. Similarly, using an untextured, unrigged, freebie or making an item from set of primitives is not guaranteed to give you a losing image. The content, whether bought, freebie, or custom created on the fly is of no use without an idea to give the image "life."
There is one thing that does give one an advantage -- Age. Those with wisdom, life experience, and hindsight have so much of an advantage that it is not funny. The youngsters (define it yourself) have little to draw from, while those who've "been around the block" (maybe two of three times) have a vast catalogue of both memory and insight that exists nowhere else.
Start and end with an idea: without one you're not going to win.
Just my 2 cents
Kendall
...I used to submit to the monthly galleries on a regular basis. With that no longer available and being out of work, acquisition of content and plugins has dropped significantly.
Cool. I've thought about trying to sell sets of character art there as well, I've just never gotten anything I was happy with putting a competitive price on.
Drivethroughrpg is mostly for Table-Top games (D&D/Pathfinder, Vampire: the Masquerade, etc.) so the market may not quite be what you're used to with second life (which, admittedly, I don't play) but it shouldn't be that different.
...don;t they still also handle Shadowrun? I remember getting several PDF supplements for the game there.
I used to enter writing competition, and even made the quarter finals of a prestigious one with one entry, and once made the semi finals with another. What I learned from that experience is that your best shot at winning a contest is to a) Figure out what kinds of work tends to win (and in the case of art, make sure you see past the "tools" and look at the context, the theme, and the story being told), and b) Apply your best skills to be unique within the context of the context.
Stand out artists stand out not because they are outdoing other artists at their own styles, they stand out because their own individual styles separates them from the others. For example, I could never beat someone like LycantropeX if I tried to duplicate his style of art because I would just be a copycat in his shadow. But if I can create my own unique style that stands out from his, at least then I'm in the game and it's just a matter of which the judges prefer. You don't compete against everyone else head to head, you strive to hone your own skills and style so that your work is as memorable and interesting as anyone elses. That's how you give yourself the best shot at winning. It doesn't mean you will win, or ever will win, but it's exactly why some people seemingly win all of the time. They've essentially created their own "brand", and that draws attention and interest to them.
Cool. I've thought about trying to sell sets of character art there as well, I've just never gotten anything I was happy with putting a competitive price on.
Drivethroughrpg is mostly for Table-Top games (D&D/Pathfinder, Vampire: the Masquerade, etc.) so the market may not quite be what you're used to with second life (which, admittedly, I don't play) but it shouldn't be that different.
...don;t they still also handle Shadowrun? I remember getting several PDF supplements for the game there.
They're the main store for the electronic version of lots of games, Shadowrun included. :)
Really a lot of great points in this thread. I figure I'll jump in on this note and second what Rawn here illustrates very well. I think it's not about having all the fancy tools, it's about having fun exploring what the tools you have are capable of, and then hopefully figuring out how to turn that exploration into making the picture you want to make (contest or no contest). Age of Armour's fog cameras are great, I use them too and love them, though you don't NEED even to buy them to achieve what they do. You can build a fog camera in Studio just with the Shader tools that exist. It's a little more clunky, and that's why I like to use the AoA cameras now, but that's what I did before I bought the AoA cameras. Now, these comments aren't really for Kyoto Kid, because I've actually seen you do pretty great things with atmospherics in your recent renders, so it's more for anybody who wants to try out a cool thing you can do with your renders.
As for contests, I've had some success in a handful of more recent contests, and I think using the contests as a way to challenge yourself to improve your art is great, but like others, I can say from my own experience when I entered *trying to win* my images have fallen flat. And I mean that in terms of trying to gear my image toward what I think will be successful. When I've had fun, when I've challenged myself to try something out, and made a picture that I liked for myself, once in a while these have surprised me by doing well in a contest too. I've also entered contests simply as a way to force myself to finish a few pictures, rather than what I often do, which is experiment with something for a little while and then abandon the scene unfinished. This is a hobby for me, like it is for many here, and it's a way to relieve stress and let my mind wander a different way, but at a certain point, I also wanted to have at least a little bit of a collection of pictures I was proud of, and the contests can be a way to motivate myself to do the finishing work on a picture.
Finishing work for me doesn't just mean post work either. It can be staring at a render that already took hours and admitting that I need to rearrange the lights and render it again because my subject isn't standing out from the background. Or the composition is leading my eye to the intersection of two walls instead of the character's face, etc. For anybody trying to improve your art, I think asking yourself the same sorts of questions that Novica mentions she uses when judging pieces (or posting WIP and asking others for feedback on those aspects) can really help.
For post work, I do a little bit, sometimes adding to shadows and glows, sometimes adding dust or fog detail. I use Pixelmator, which is $15 (I recommend it to anybody using a Mac). It's a great little program, it doesn't do everything, but it does nearly everything you need from what GIMP or Photoshop can do. It is limited in that it's only for Mac, but I think the interface is better than GIMP's is for Macs, and it imports PS brushes quite well.
There are always frustrations, too. I've got a picture I'm working on that I thought was a really neat idea, and try as I might, I can't get it to work. I've tried six different lighting arrangements now, and none have looked like what I wanted. I set up all the lights and render, and then delete them all when I get frustrated that it looks so far off from what I hoped.
Quite true for me as well. The vouchers were pretty much how I funded this hobby, but without them I've completely stopped buying 3D assets. (Then again, I've already got a huge collection of items that have yet to be used!)
I read this thread with great interest and all kinds of things crossed my mind and made me question my own skills and motivation.
Coming from an artist family I knew I was going to artschool since I was 7.
When I attended artschool, digital art was still premature but we got our weekly photoshop, Illustrator, Quark and HTML lessons and when you did a special course, you could even got a chance to get your hands on that very expensive computer that had this mythical 3D software.
Digital art enraged me to the core and I did not went to any of those lessons (until they threatened to suspend me, lol).
I saw it as an enemy to "real" art, a computer can't draw, people do!
And here I am now, and I hardly ever touch a pencil these days ><<br /> When I discovered DAZ I was like "omg, now I can just plonk a full figure onto a scene within a few seconds, yay!"
And then I discovered it needed some rendering skills and so on, *ouch*.
Last year I participated in my very first contest and I was so proud of what I made!
When I didn't win it gave me a little pang in my stomach, because I worked so hard and I was sure that every second of work was reflected into that render.
It did hurt a little in all honesty, because I felt the need to win because it would be a way of others telling me: "you're doing great!"
But looking back, my skills were still very undeveloped towards 3D and I can laugh at myself now.
If people back then had told me that " I am there" and a " 3D pro" I would probably have lost the need to learn because I was done learning.
I keep in mind that my 3D skills may never ever reach the quality or depth of my real life drawings (I am specialised in portraits).
Because not all media works for everyone.
I am not a very skilled painter, I suck at painting!
Also, I know lots of people who can draw splendid with a Wacom tablet, I just don't get the right feel in my workflow to make something happen on the screen as I can on plain paper ><</p>
I am still learning lots from working with 3D software and it will probably take years before I master enough to feel confident like I do on paper.
So, at this point I haven't really decided if this 3D is compatible with my skills or not, but apart from that there are other awesome things that come with it: the 3D community, their art, the proces of learning and pushing and exploring your own boundaries (and wallet haha!).
From what I read between your lines, is a little of what I have felt as well: I need this in order to feel a bit more secure about my own skills!
You feel a loser, because you haven't won, does that make you a BAD artist?
I think not, but I do get that you want to feel that recognition people need to feel from time to time.
I can tell you it's not the way to go, it's bad for your spirit as an artist and will even interfere with your talents on the long run.
But as a human you just want to know: am I on the right track?!
How many oscars did Leonardo Dicaprio win? ;)
...bloody connection went down while responding:
...true, NeelZ LX, Isikol, Totte, are just a few I can name off the top of my head who have such a unique style they stand out to the point I don't even have to see any names to know who did what. I felt I was on my way to achieving that until I got 3.0 Advanced and began messing with IBL.
As Takeo.Kensei mentioned, perhaps (with regards to lighting) I am using the wrong tools for what I am trying to achieve. Ever since I started using UE I notice my works didn't really look much different than a lot of others which use it. They didn't have the vibrancy or presence of my older pieces, which used just the standard 3 types of Daz lights, Distant, Spot, and Point. The idea behind IBL is to make things look more "real", more "photographic" instead of "dynamic" or "cinematic". I used to work with stage lighting, which is why the Daz lights were so easy for me to adapt to. The idea was to create an environment that captivated the audience, drew them into the action on the stage, and even imparted an emotion, not simply mimic real life.
Many (like Waldemar) feel that lighting is one of the principle keys to creating scenes that catch the eye.
The original Twilight Zone handled light and shadow masterfully within the Black and White medium and imparted a strong sense of the surreal. Same with the B & W version of the British show The Avengers. Then there is Film Noir. Lighting was often not "realistic" but instead was used to heighten the feeling of mystery and intrigue which made these films so unique. I also find the night scenes in Spielberg's Close Encounters to be incredibly captivating from the lighting aspect which to me made it successful.
I can understand how Kyoto Kid and others feel about the contests, I have seen many over the years, entered some but mostly stayed away as I saw who was winning. Now when I say things I speak generally so I am not talking only about Daz, but other sites as well. It can not be denied that there are favorite artists who tend to win on a regular basic. You can't deny this because that very argument was in these forums and many agreed.
Having a themed contest is a joke in some cases, but not all, as the winning image has nothing to do with the theme. It's no joke, in some cases the winning image is so far off base of the theme it had no business even being in the contest. When I enter a contest, I try my best to follow the rules and guidelines of the theme, so when someone comes along who doesn't follow these in any way, shape or form, and then later turn out to be the winner, I feel exactly like Kyoto Kid, who wouldn't.
To make the claim that maybe a person just isn't a good enough artist to win and should practice more is bull. There have been winners who's images do not measure up to others that have entered, but they win anyway and you're left wondering why. That is where favorites usually end up winning.
Then you have the request to not solicit votes during the contest, yet I see posts asking for that very thing, as well as PM's and email asking for my vote.
As for using older versions of programs and not needing the new version. Unless you were smart enough to save a copy to disk somewhere, good luck trying to get them now. I own Poser6, which I can't use on my computer, even though it worked on a similar computer two years ago, now it won't. I own Paint Shop Pro 11, which only knows how to crash now, even though I am using a similar type computer. Then there is Daz while I went through various computers till finally getting the one I have now (which I can't use the current version of Daz on), and even though I have had almost ever version in my account at one time or another, are no longer in my account. Yes I did talk to them about it and no they will not put them back.
Even if you are lucky enough to have those older versions of the programs, the current addons tend not to work on older versions and vice versa. So the push is to have the newest computer so it can handle the newest version of any program out there, so yes, even to enter a contest you need money. To prove this even more, how many current contests here at Daz alone, do not require you to pay for a membership or own a certain product or own products from a certain artist or sale?
Kyoto Kid, did you withdraw your renders from the fun&games; contest? :(
Don't let it it get to you <3</p>
...just the second one as the lighting really didn't look good.
You don't have to buy a ton of content for a specific render contest. A a few good shaders can turn a bikini into something usable for prehistoric (make it furry), fantasy (turn it into chainmaille), or horror (dirty/grungy). That's the beauty of shaders, they're not content dependent and can be used on anything. Rarely do I ever buy the texture packs for clothing I've bought (unless they're really really good and leave me thinking about them). 9 times out of 10 I'm only going to re-texture them anyways.
There is a lot of free content available, and also a lot of free shaders available. It's just a matter of searching.
Tip- this works for props, buildings, etc also. Get some floor/wall shaders and give entire buildings a makeover.
Want a new hair color that's not in the pack without buying any addons? Take the hair tile from the textures folder, re-color it in your editor of choice, and save it out with a new name (so you don't overwrite the original). Now plug that texture into the diffuse map and voila. New hair color.
My point is, there are PLENTY of ways around not buying content for 1 thing. You just have to be willing to do a little more than drag and drop.
EDIT: Once transfered to DS4.6 You can not EDIT again so you must have DS3 still.
You don't have to buy a ton of content for a specific render contest. A a few good shaders can turn a bikini into something usable for prehistoric (make it furry), fantasy (turn it into chainmaille), or horror (dirty/grungy). That's the beauty of shaders, they're not content dependent and can be used on anything. Rarely do I ever buy the texture packs for clothing I've bought (unless they're really really good and leave me thinking about them). 9 times out of 10 I'm only going to re-texture them anyways.
There is a lot of free content available, and also a lot of free shaders available. It's just a matter of searching.
Tip- this works for props, buildings, etc also. Get some floor/wall shaders and give entire buildings a makeover.
Want a new hair color that's not in the pack without buying any addons? Take the hair tile from the textures folder, re-color it in your editor of choice, and save it out with a new name (so you don't overwrite the original). Now plug that texture into the diffuse map and voila. New hair color.
My point is, there are PLENTY of ways around not buying content for 1 thing. You just have to be willing to do a little more than drag and drop.
I agree with you Vaskania... I rarely BUY the add ons.. specially if they are just color/texture changes.. Half the FUN of Daz is trying my OWN textures :) And I too also ONLY buy merchandise that I can use for multiple reasons... Although.. I must admit... I have more content then I will ever use in my lifetime... lol
I agree with you Vaskania... I rarely BUY the add ons.. specially if they are just color/texture changes.. Half the FUN of Daz is trying my OWN textures :) And I too also ONLY buy merchandise that I can use for multiple reasons... Although.. I must admit... I have more content then I will ever use in my lifetime... lol
Hah yea. I tend to buy things I like while they're on sale, which not all the time I have an idea for at that present moment, and then they get thrown on the back burner. lol One of these days I'm going to make my way folder by folder through my content just to use it all at least once, granted though not all in a single day. :ohh:
I pretty much "ditto" ALL of your points CalieVee.... I myself have asked myself... "WHAT DOES THAT RENDER HAVE TO DO WITH THE THEME OF THE CONTEST?" It's frustrating to see a winning render that has NOTHING to do with the theme win... Specially when I've worked hours to make sure mine follows the theme challenge... and... having to purchase content to enter the PC weekly is draining my budget... that is why I'll be leaving PC club...the other thing that bugs me about PC club.. is.. when I joined I could spend my $6.00 on ANTHING.. even 1.99 items (yes.. it's true) THEN.. they changed the rules on me a few months later.. Now I'm lucky if I can find anything 6.00. Most of the time it's waaay over the 6.00 and I still end up using money from my pocketbook. Reading this thread has helped me make up my mind about quitting PC club. I definitely need to work with all the stuff I have right now before thinking about buying anything new. I'll still be around the forums.. just not as a "special" member. Happy rendering everyone! hugzzzzzzzz all around.