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...yeah maybe I'm approaching this all wrong which is why my work fails.
I thought my background in painting, drawing, and design would be enough, and in the beginning when the software was much simpler than it is now, it was. Not anymore, not with UE, SSS, Sub_D, weight mapping, collision detection etc...
I think visually, not in numbers or setting values. When I laid paint on a canvas I pretty much knew what I needed to do to give a sky or skin depth, create shadows that looked right for the "lighting" depicted, or reflectivity for polished objects, etc. Heck, I was doing AO and SSS long before I even knew there were terms for them.
I realise, I can't approach 3D CG from that perspective alone anymore. To be successful at this I have to deal with the numbers. It was dealing with the numbers that eventually caused me to bail out of CG studies back in the 80s because they got in the way of the visions I had.
Misty Whisky hit the nail Right in the head. Just render and have fun doing it. I I consider my self a rookie and/or a loser too. I started using Daz Studios about three months ago( First time using a 3D program and I love it) now I am using GIMP because its free and a great program. I also don't have the luxury of using high end rendering programs or products. I feel your pain Kyoto Kid. I seen some of your renders and they are awesome. I also seen render entered in contest that are amazing to me and they don't win( I am left puzzle). Cheer up mates and don't give up on renders.
If your background is in painting and drawing then I would strongly suggest you incorporate that into your 3D as much as possible, if you don't. Drawing/painting your own textures (or edit existing) and working over your scenes to make them as beautiful as your traditional skills will allow when converted to the digital world. Gimp or PS and a stylus are a very powerful combination and will give your work a unique touch, and many traditional medium artists find the transition to digital rewarding.
Subd, weight mapping collision are nothing to worry about. All that is pretty much done for you (or a one click solution). Uberenvironment is a bit more tricky to get good results with, but with a little practice/reading you can get it down pretty quick. SSS and ubersurface are much hard to get your head around. AOA SSS base is very well documented though, so a very good alternative. What it comes down to, in the long run, is that your work will be as good as you want it to be.
After having published a number of Bryce artist features at my blog it is clear that a software package is rarely as bad as people think it is, and that it all comes down to skill and dedication.
...a tablet and stylus require a steady hand, something I no longer have. I have almost no grip left in either hand which makes applying pressure sensitivity control very difficult (if not painful). This is why I had to leave the traditional mediums. Hence digital painting is pretty much moot for me. That doesn't stop me from appreciating the work of people like LycanthropeX and Kurt Lundqvist whom I consider to be experts in the field.
I try to convey the feeling as best I can through lighting, filters, and various minor postwork effects.
I've tried to get a grasp on UE but again feel it makes my scenes look "flat". For the most part I relegate it to providing fill or ambient light and that is about it. I really wish AoA's new Advanced Ambient Light was out during the sale, (even put aside funds for it), as from what I have seen, it looks like it will allow me to achieve the quality I used to love seeing with LDP using only a few lights (and it renders much faster than UE).
SSS is something that I feel could be a benefit, however, there are so many bloody parameters to deal with, I feel like could spend years wrapped up in experimentation.
ok.. ok.. I git it... Have FUN with renders and DAZ (yada yada...) I DO have fun... but... FUN doesn't pay the bills! Deep down inside I know I'm not the only one that enters EVERY contest hoping to win... even IF it's only a 4.00 store credit. It's 4.00 less I have to spend of my own money. I'm not sure if you, jimzombie, get paid for your writing... but I have a husband that scrutinizes every penny I spend... so.. OF COURSE I wanna win... but I know there can only be a few winners out of the 50 or so renders entered... But I'd STILL like to win and if I don't... know WHY the winning render got chosen instead of the other 50 renders that entered along with mine. It's like reading the end of a mystery story and not having loose ends tied up.
This is a great thread Kyoto... Thank you for starting it.. but I must get some sleep.. Happy Rendering EVERYONE!!! Pleasant dreamzzzzzzzzz to you all!
...well all this thinking is giving me a headache.
There are a lot of good viewpoints here, just need to sort everything out.
In the meantime been trying to rework a scene I pulled out of the PC challenge, but just not getting it to look the way I can see it in my mind.
Been lurking and reading everyone's posts; this one resonates the most with me.
I entered a contest shortly after I discovered the forums; I didn't win but it was fun and I enjoyed seeing the WIPs and interacting with others. While I don't enter contests nor post renders here any more for the most part except for 2 threads which I follow regularly (why, I'm not getting into ;-P ), I go over the forums and contests to study and learn :)
@ Kyoto Kid: I see. Sounds like it must have been very hard having to move away from your art like that. I'm glad you have found a new medium that suits your physical condition. You can do a lot with software alone, but you aren't wrong, there are a lot of headaches and many, many hours spent in experiments and reading.
@ llolalane: When your art is at that level when you can't see why you didn't win against all the best entries then you've either reached a very good level, or you aren't looking hard enough. That said there is an amount of personal bias in any contest judgment, so that does come into play. There is nothing wrong with wanting to win. I doubt many people would go into contests without that in mind, unless they are 100% convinced they can't win.
I don't recall saying that shouldn't be part of it. Think applying someone else's comments to me. I do make some money from my writing, but it is pennies in the dollar when compared to all the software and content I've bought, but I don't really see how that applies here... Best luck in your endevours and may you strike some more wins.
Been lurking and reading everyone's posts; this one resonates the most with me.
I entered a contest shortly after I discovered the forums; I didn't win but it was fun and I enjoyed seeing the WIPs and interacting with others. While I don't enter contests nor post renders here any more for the most part except for 2 threads which I follow regularly (why, I'm not getting into ;-P ), I go over the forums and contests to study and learn :)
I think contests would sit better with people if they were looked at more like render challenges. You don't normally render fairies? Enter a contest with a fairy theme and challenge yourself. Enter it for the fun and the learning, not for the title.
This is a wonderful idea, Vaskania :cheese: Sorta kinda did this and it led to me being inspired to do my first series of renders of a paraplegic character ;-) I actually didn't enter the Handicapped... not! freebie challenge; I had found out about it halfway through and found the subject matter so powerful and inspiring that I came up with a render on this theme (the freebie aspect doesn't appeal and I give huge props for those who can do it :) ) :lol:
I think contests would sit better with people if they were looked at more like render challenges. You don't normally render fairies? Enter a contest with a fairy theme and challenge yourself. Enter it for the fun and the learning, not for the title.
That is an interesting view point, and I so agree with it. I have actually entered very few actual Contests, and had entries placed in even fewer.
However I have always done well in Challenges, the sort of challenge that had no prizes except the kudos for getting placed. I actually thought that the Monthly render challenge in the PC forum was much more fun when the only prize was to have a render feature in the Newsletter..
One online Community I used to participate in a lot actually had a "Challenge Arena". This did used to be a lot of fun, but it was difficult to keep it going, because people got used to winning prizes, or possibly winning prizes in Contests rather than Challenges, and now hasn't been updated for some years.
I think contests would sit better with people if they were looked at more like render challenges. You don't normally render fairies? Enter a contest with a fairy theme and challenge yourself. Enter it for the fun and the learning, not for the title.
That is an interesting view point, and I so agree with it. I have actually entered very few actual Contests, and had entries placed in even fewer.
However I have always done well in Challenges, the sort of challenge that had no prizes except the kudos for getting placed. I actually thought that the Monthly render challenge in the PC forum was much more fun when the only prize was to have a render feature in the Newsletter..
One online Community I used to participate in a lot actually had a "Challenge Arena". This did used to be a lot of fun, but it was difficult to keep it going, because people got used to winning prizes, or possibly winning prizes in Contests rather than Challenges, and now hasn't been updated for some years.
In all honesty, if you're familiar with it at all, I like how Traveler runs RDNA's monthly challenges. Themes voted by the community, masters mode set towards people who have won so many regular mode challenges (same theme, they just have to do more/include more than everybody else- and Traveler doesn't really take it easy on them sometimes from what I've seen lol). There are no prizes won- simply the good feeling from winning/placing and the congrats from your peers.
Postwork is encouraged, but you have people of all different skill sets playing along, and judging isn't purely on how pretty the picture is.
The tools don't make the artist.
If you really want to learn why someone else won a contest and you didnt, then you have to be really sincere about wanting that. Because it means putting your own ego aside and objectivly looking at things.
Of course everything I entered into contests I thought was the best ever.....but when nothing came close. I had to really step back and take a look at what I made in comparison. Then I also went back and compared it to what is taught in art courses, and such. It was then I started to find the little things that I didnt even know to look for.
You really dont know what you dont know.....so because of that you cannot even see the real differences.
So if you really want to win, take the time to study art and layout and visual storytelling. There are alot of free programs online where you can learn alot from if you do not want to buy books.
It really does help
Rawn
Well said Rawn. Yes, if you don't know what you're looking for then there is a good chance you won't find it. Damn, art is hard.
If you seriously wish to use this medium to "pay the bills", then skip the contests. I doubt very much you will be "discovered" that way. First learn the basics of fine art. Read or take a course on why The Masters are considered the The Masters. Master lighting, posing and scene composition.
Create a portfolio. Even if you do get hired, don't think for one second your work won't get criticized. In the end, the person paying for your work has the final say. You may not agree with him/her. You may think their a complete idiot but if you want the money to end up in your account, you smile and go with it.
...that is the reason for the theme of this thread.
Then stop. Ok, you need Gensis which means you can't go back to LDP2. PM me when you get a chance.
Light Dome Pro 2, I did not try this but it should work. Open DS3, Load a LDP2 preset, save as scene file, close DS3, open DS4, load your saved scene file.
I model some stuff and I like to give it away when it's done but I know I'm not going to be the PA with 100 responses in 24 hrs for a commercial piece (free vs pay and I loose!). Maybe I'll get a positive response, hell; maybe I'll get two. So even though I didn't become prom king/queen/other I had a hand in giving someone something that maybe they'll find inspiring and tell their story, and if so how cool is that!?
If your goal is to win...study the winners. Ask yourself if there is a certain theme that always seem to win or place. For myself, I go for the oddball, humorous. or thought provoking. These sometimes win....sometimes not. The "safest" entry is probably something involving Dragons and scantily-clad girls (study Frank Frazetta).
If you seriously wish to use this medium to "pay the bills", then skip the contests. I doubt very much you will be "discovered" that way. First learn the basics of fine art. Read or take a course on why The Masters are considered the The Masters. Master lighting, posing and scene composition.
Create a portfolio. Even if you do get hired, don't think for one second your work won't get criticized. In the end, the person paying for your work has the final say. You may not agree with him/her. You may think their a complete idiot but if you want the money to end up in your account, you smile and go with it.
Wise words icprncss... sounds like you speak from experience. I've always made money with my "crafts" whether it was teaching classes for sewing or making things for a craft show. This 3d stuff is all new to me. I just figured the contests were a start. I know I'm never to old to learn new tricks.. but time IS ticking.. tick tock... lol... I'll keep plugging along and figure things out... SOMEHOW. :) THANK you for your words of wisdom :)
Giggles Pete.c44... I guess THAT is my problem.. I'm NOT a dragon scantly-clad girl renderer... lol
We at #DCC on dA (and by we I mean I ;)) are probably a little too lenient over what is acceptable, but so long as a DAZ/Poser related product is used as a main part of the creation process I am reasonably happy. We could, I suppose, implement a 'rule' thay says you have to specify what applications yo used and to what degree but that smacks of being overly draconian. I like to think we have had quite an eclectic range of winners in our Image of the Month contests and occasional themed contests.
And, as has been said, you are far from being a loser.
Wise words icprncss... sounds like you speak from experience. I've always made money with my "crafts" whether it was teaching classes for sewing or making things for a craft show. This 3d stuff is all new to me. I just figured the contests were a start. I know I'm never to old to learn new tricks.. but time IS ticking.. tick tock... lol... I'll keep plugging along and figure things out... SOMEHOW. :) THANK you for your words of wisdom :)
I don't know if you play rpg's, but there are bunches of products over at Drivethrurpg.com that are basically renders. Some are stock art for people to use in books for publication. Others, as far as I can tell, are pretty much renders of sets from a few different angles, one top down with a grid draped over it, and then a setting and scenario or two attached.
Wise words icprncss... sounds like you speak from experience. I've always made money with my "crafts" whether it was teaching classes for sewing or making things for a craft show. This 3d stuff is all new to me. I just figured the contests were a start. I know I'm never to old to learn new tricks.. but time IS ticking.. tick tock... lol... I'll keep plugging along and figure things out... SOMEHOW. :) THANK you for your words of wisdom :)
You're welcome. Many years experience both free lance and in-house. Not to mention the time spent gaining an MFA. Depending upon where you live, many colleges and universities will allow you to audit classes. If you want to gear your learning more specifically toward DS, I would suggest you take a look at Dreamlight's products and club. LightMaster and LightMaster2 are geared to more generalized lighting that can be adapted to just about any 3D app. DS Illuminated is primarily aimed at DS users. If you subscribe to his newsletter (if you do be prepared for a regular set of mailings) he does offer some excellent deals on his courses.
I'm a 50 plus year old disabled ex-pro graphic artist. My Pro carrier lasted one whole year, the deep south is a very competitive market with many more artist than jobs. I took art classes from the first day of school all the way into Community Collage not because I wanted to win or be famous but because I enjoyed art. I sold a total of three commercial sign designs before I moved on to a carrier that kept food on my table, the term starving artist I knew very well. When at the end of my Retail carrier my illness hit, and it let loose the Arthur, I lost all ability to even do a good scribble with a pencil. Then I found the First Free to try DAZ Studio. I'm far from good, I do not even try to be good. I too find translating most of what I learned in art class to the 3D world hard and loads of it useless. The thing I enjoy is just being able to do at all as my health allows me to. As it sounds very much like I and KK are in the same boat when it comes to our ability to do art at all I have just one suggestion.
Take the time to learn some of these number settings you find so hard. I'm far behind in my understanding of most of them but when I do learn how one thing works that opens new doors for me. SSS in DAZ Studio? I have not a clue yet, I use premade items and settings if I bother with it at all. Uber Lighting? Those I sort of have a grasp on as I wanted to use them. And I too am on a tight budget except for one big splurge a year when I get a pension check I can spend some of on my 3D hobby. What I'm getting at is this, DAZ Studio is the only tool I have to express myself now. To me that means if I want to use DS I need to learn how to do some things. And here on these forums I find that information is right there to find or ask about and freely given to any at any time.
I never enter a contest to win it. I enter far less now than I did before because I can do less now, not because I fear I'll fail. When I do enter one it's because the idea is there and I enjoying getting that done. Nothing more than that, enjoying myself as I do it. And many of the posts in this thread are very good and very helpful. When I'm not having fun I just don't bother. That to me is what art is about having fun and enjoying myself.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=NVIATWAS
I dont think it should always be assumed that images are done with high end software.
I did this on the weekend...and while it may not be award winning, I think it looks pretty good.
It was all rendered in d/s with only minimal post work in photoshop.
It's just a matter if using the right tools.
Currently my favorite tool is Age of Armours Fog camera's, they give great DOF and fog like effects that really make pictures look cool
http://www.daz3d.com/atmospheric-effects-cameras-for-daz-studio
Rawn
I think contests would sit better with people if they were looked at more like render challenges. You don't normally render fairies? Enter a contest with a fairy theme and challenge yourself. Enter it for the fun and the learning, not for the title.
...actually it is the themed ones I usually prefer like the PC monthly or the old PA Wallpaper Challenge (which is no more since the site change) as they set the playing field to an extent. Granted there are ones I do not participate in only because I don't have a specific genre of content that fits the theme (for example, prehistoric, barbaric fantasy, or horror). On my budget I cannot afford to purchase content specifically for a contest that I would rarely if ever use again.
That is an interesting view point, and I so agree with it. I have actually entered very few actual Contests, and had entries placed in even fewer.
However I have always done well in Challenges, the sort of challenge that had no prizes except the kudos for getting placed. I actually thought that the Monthly render challenge in the PC forum was much more fun when the only prize was to have a render feature in the Newsletter..
One online Community I used to participate in a lot actually had a "Challenge Arena". This did used to be a lot of fun, but it was difficult to keep it going, because people got used to winning prizes, or possibly winning prizes in Contests rather than Challenges, and now hasn't been updated for some years.
In all honesty, if you're familiar with it at all, I like how Traveler runs RDNA's monthly challenges. Themes voted by the community, masters mode set towards people who have won so many regular mode challenges (same theme, they just have to do more/include more than everybody else- and Traveler doesn't really take it easy on them sometimes from what I've seen lol). There are no prizes won- simply the good feeling from winning/placing and the congrats from your peers.
Postwork is encouraged, but you have people of all different skill sets playing along, and judging isn't purely on how pretty the picture is.
...the old PA Wallpaper Challenge had the theme for the next month selected by community vote. As a matter of fact I also believe the monthly PC Challenge themes were chosen that way as well.
Over at the Fantasy Attic, they also put themes for their contests to a vote by the community, first doing a preliminary poll to select three or four finalist themes, then a second vote for the final one.