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" but it’s all smoke and mirrors and in the end a tiny number of oversized egos toss a coin and pick one as the “winner”"
I hadn't read this before I posted. I can only speak for myself in that I value every entry.
Cathie
I have judged photography competitions, local to international, for many years, and agree with Novica that a good judge will look at a lot of different qualities and not be fooled by smoke and mirrors. Postwork to add some lightning or fix some poke-through makes sense, and for that Gimp or PS Elements is more than adequate, but overall, I see the images that win as having everything working in harmony. For me, especially, a story, composition, lighting (I think lighting can make or break in a lot of cases), mood, posing, attention to detail . . . You can write books. Not all judges will agree with each other, because it's hard to remove all bias for/against subject matter and style, but sometimes it's just one little thing that will knock an image out of the running.
And I say this with emphasis, be true to your own art. I have seen over the years, too many photographers following a "formula" that they think will win, and end up with pictures that look like everyone else's. Soon the judges tire of seeing that formula, and the cutting edge images, that still have all the other great factors, will rise.
Chasing more software is like buying more and bigger lenses. All the software we use is amazingly powerful and capable of great results.
There's too much emotion attached to competition. If you enjoy participating to show your work, great. But if you take it personally, best to back off and exhibit, as some have pointed out on this thread, in your own gallery where your own light can shine.
Having said all that, I really appreciate competitions where there is plenty of feedback from the judges as to what qualities the winners had, but when I present a program on judging, I always pull in some non-winning images to show where they could have been improved. That sort of feedback is sometimes lacking here? (I could be wrong but I don't follow the competition threads that closely).
Is "high end" software required to win in a contest?
I don't think so. I placed fourth in the 2013 Stonemason contest and if my memory is working I had an honorable mention in the
stonemason contest a few years back. I just got a second place in the PA Festival render thread.
What do I use? Daz Studio and photoshop, that's it. Nothing fancy, I just play around doing what looks good to me.
Oh, and I always believe I have a shot when I enter a contest. Because I think that I'm so great? No. I just get excited
about the image I'm working on. Yes, I have been disappointed many times when I haven't won. But art is always subjective.
I still get excited when I have an idea and start to play with it.
So am I a professional? Well, yes I am a Professional Electrical Contractor and I spend my days crawling in attics or
under houses pulling wire and replacing switches and lights and outlets. 3D stuff is just a hobby. I enjoy it. It's fun!
My main point here is to emphasize that expensive software doesn't guarantee anything. I'm quite happy with Daz Studio.
It's what I'll continue to use whether I enter contests or just for personal enjoyment.
I just want to add that I hear your frustration Kyoto Kid.
Please keep presenting us with your unique vision.
I don't think winning prize has that much value and I did enter some contest some time just for fun (and that is the most important point for a hobby).I don't think the price of the softwares you use is that much important. It's rather how much you can get out of it. Softwares can give you some easy way to do things but talent doesn't rely on software techs. Proof here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy-lV3MyVJw
My favorite artists are some people that can do amazing things with just a pen
On the software side, there are a lot of freewares that are very good. Yet many are unknown but that doesn't mean they are less good than some commercial softwares
I fing Gimp very powerful and you can already do so much with it. The next version is very promising and just for the story, there is a special version of Gimp that was used in movie VFX. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinePaint
Blender as well is being used in some TV commercials and what you can get out of it in the good hands is just amazing too. As for it not beeing used in movies, I think that it is due to other factors. It's like saying Linux is less good than Windows because it's open source. I'll also take the example of LibreOffice vs MS Office. It's not less good. It's just that MS is widely used everywhere and it would cost a lot more to change to Libre Office rather than to continue paying MS. And that example is not just an isolate case. The big drawback of Open source is just the support. When you pay the price for a software, in a company, you want the support behind it because time is money. That is the main reason for open source not beeing more used. But put a strong support behind it and it becomes useable : see RedHat
If you master Gimp, inkscape, Blender, DS, Bryce, Hexagon, Sculptris you'd be OK to compete with anybody (didn't say it was easy and that could be done in no time). I think you forget that the software doesn't make the art
Postwork can easily be done in The Gimp or Paint.net, both of which are free. If you have a bit of a budget, PhotoShop Essentials or Corel PhotoPaint work well.
If you want to get better, post to the Art Studio and ask for critiques. Respond politely to critiques given and learn from them. (BTW: some of us have been burned by requests for critiques where the artist then lashed out at anything that wasn't gushing praise. If need be, ask a friend to post an honest critique and respond to that so others feel more comfortable about posting.) Naturally you can't use every last piece of advice every time (some advice could be wrong for that piece, some may contradict other advise, etc.) but you can learn a lot, even from less-than-useful advice.
Look at the winning art and compare them to your submissions. Ignore the tools used and the artists who submitted them, just focus on the results. You may disagree with the occasional pick, but overall you should see a pattern of what works and what doesn't.
The biggest problems I see over and over again in these contests for non-winning entries is muddy skin tones, insufficient tone differentiation (every last item has the same saturation amount, either murky or retina-burning) and dull composition - the main point of interest is centered in the scene with no secondary points of interest.
Specific to Poser/DS, I see a lot of rigid, overly symmetrical poses, expressions that don't match the scene (unless the artist intended maniacal/stalker instead of romantic), poke-through, poses not tweaked for the body settings (so hands float above hips instead of resting on them, crossed arms not folded properly, etc.) and characters interacting near each other instead of with each other (the same with props).
I'm not saying that all of these are present in your art, but I think if you look at winning submissions, you'll rarely see any of the problems listed above.
If you see an issue with your artwork but aren't sure how to fix it, ask. This community is a treasure trove of info.
Hope this helps.
DWR's steps for her avoiding Contest frustration:
1) Only enter contests that suit a planned render or who's requirements inspire. If neither of those apply, I'll probably never finish the entry in the first place. And if I do, it often shows that I don't care about the image as much as I could, due to it having become a chore rather than something I want to do. This is part of why I so rarely enter contests. And when I do, it's often a matter of having started setting up a render, and then realizing that it applies to a contest.
2) Don't expect to win. Only a few people can win, and it's much less frustrating if you don't expect to win in the first place. At this point, I only get frustrated if I honestly believe my entry is better (technically or artistically) than one of the winners. This does not happen often. When it does (and even when it doesn't)...
3) See what you can learn from the other entries. All the other entries. Even the ones you think your work surpasses. Sometimes it's new postwork techniques (most of which can be done in GIMP as easily as Photoshop), sometimes it different lighting or camera angles. There's actually a lot that can be learned without even talking to the various artists and just looking at their work. I'm not a fan of my doing any post work beyond cleaning up poke-thru and occasionally throwing a filter or two over the image (and even that I don't really enjoy), so I try to get it as right "in camera" as I can, but that doesn't mean I can't learn from other people's postwork.
PS - You are not a Looser, Kyoto Kid. You just haven't found the right contest to win yet. :)
I agree with this post.
I enter a competitions and do well sometimes, and so I resent the speculation that is coming across here that its because of favouratism, or high end programs, I have neither, I use DS 4.6 and photoshop 7 which I believe is more outdated than the currant Gimp.
Yes I postwork, I had to learn post work to compensate for a very low par 32 bit computer, I have a better computer now but still nothing that can match most here, so I need Postwork to be able to compete, I've just done an image with over 80 figures in it, it took a lot of renders - as with the scenery my computer could only handle 4 figures why should I be penalised for only being able to afford low end hardware.
I enter competitions because I like the focus they give but I don't enter expecting to win, I'm always surprised if I place anywhere.
I get frustrated sometimes for not winning too, but your complaints are bull. I see all of the winning entries and I rarely, if ever, see winners saying that they used software costing thousands of dollars to create their renders, and just because you haven't won any contests in no way justifies you dismissing the fact that those who are winning just happen to be DAMN GOOD at this stuff. Besides, if you're going to exclude people for having to be fortunate enough to own more expensive software, then you also better start excluding people who own more content than you, people who have been doing this longer than you, people who have better computers than you, and also people who just happen to be better artists than you. You can produce crap with the expensive stuff and masterpieces out of the cheaper stuff. I happen to own Photoshop (which I worked my ass off to buy, by the way) and I don't do 1/10th of the stuff with it that others do. I do get frustrated and have had a few times where I thought I would place in a contest and didn't, but I would NEVER come on these boards and so blatantly dismiss the winners' talents by complaining about the cost of the tools they may or may not have used.
If you are more concerned with winning than the fun of the challenge, then stop competing and then your problem's solved. But don't insult the skill of the amazing (and always generously willing to help others, I might add) artists in this community by accusing them of leaning on the crutch of 1more expensive software in order to win. Meanwhile, I'm going to keep chasing the dream of winning one day while having fun learning from all of the artists who just may be better than me...at least right now. :-)
Some good advice, DaWaterRat. Covers most of what I was going to say.
I've yet to win first place in a contest but I have won a few second-place and honorable mention prizes. One thing those contests had in common was a high prize-to-entry ratio (in other words, the chances of winning were good). Also, contests where there are other factors in play besides artistic merit might be easier for some people, myself included. For instance, character design contests, or contests like RRRR that value humor.
As far as the expensive software goes, I don't think it's at all necessary. I've seen plenty of renders that only used DS or Poser, plus maybe Photoshop if anything (and most of those postwork effects could have been done in GIMP). Those who win a lot of contests might be more likely to have more pro-level software, but I don't think it's the key factor in their victories. Instead I think it works like this: people who win a lot of contest are probably really good...if they're really good, they probably devote a lot of time and effort to their hobby...if they devote a lot of time and effort, they probably have spent a good amount of money too...if they've spent a good amount of money, they're more likely to own expensive software.
Some really good points being brought up here.
I used to get people in photo competitions complaining that others won because they had such expensive equipment, but I've seen people with expensive equipment who shoot crap, and people winning competitions using a cheap disposal camera. A good artist doesn't need an expensive set of oils; he/she can scratch out an image with a crayon, a piece of charcoal or a cheapie felt pen. It's the talent, the practice, the ability to visualize, knowing what your tools can do best, and pulling it all together in a cohesive package that makes other people go "wow". As others have stated, it's just as possible using very basic to free software.
Kyoto dont feel that way...
You have 2 choices.
Be better at 2d postwork
Be better at 3d renderings...
Solution for a)
Read every tutorial there is in painting in photoshop or painter or gimp or whatever program you will use for 2d painting
Spent a lot of money to someone to teach you...its not an expense. Its an investment. Trust me. I know!
Solution for b)
Read every tutorial there is in lighting. Then on how to set up cameras. In general read any tutorial there is on studio ( since you use that program)
If im not mistaken the guy who won the stonemason contest used only studio and he did a very small amount of postwork.
No high end programs involved.
Programs are just tools. Its how you use them that makes the difference.
Dont give up...always try to learn...that way you will achieve great things!
...Wheelman you are correct. I am overracting.
The frustration of putting a lot of time and effort into something for nothing is getting the better of me.
Heck to me even Vue Studio/Complete and the oft mentioned Photoshop are more Pro than hobbyist grade because of the cost. As I've mentioned before, the whole reason I ended up with Daz instead of Poser was because I couldn't afford the 250$ up front plus the extra cost for expansions and content. Yeah I've been doing this on a "shoestring" for five and a half years now. and with recent changes in marketing at Daz, it has become even more difficult to keep up.
...and yes, in comparison to a lot of what I see out there, most of my current "finished" work is pretty mediocre. Most of the time I have spent in this lately (especially since the release of Genesis/G2F) has been for the ongoing development of the characters for my story. Scenes pretty much develop around them so I have something to present (don't like posting a character with a blank background as it just feels "unfinished"). However, even when I take the time to set up a work specifically for a challenge (like I did for the RRRR challenge in April and several of the PC challenges) it flops. One took me three weeks to complete and never even saw the light of day as the deadline passed before I could submit it.
I worked in the traditional artforms most of my life before a disability pretty much took that away. Over the last five+ years I have struggled to learn this new thing called 3D CG which I thought to be a new door for getting back into visual art again. Just when I felt I might be getting a handle on it, a new version of the software comes along with all new tools that may enhance some processes but also in some cases, no longer works with the plugins and tools I already have. On my budget, I need to get the most out of what I already have invested in this.
I cannot model to save my life. Oh, I've tried but have a difficult time wrapping my brain around the terms and concepts involved. Years ago you could give me a bunch of Balsa wood, fabric, glue, modelling knife, sandpaper, and paints, and I could build a nicely detailed radio control model of a Cessna 185, Supermarine Spitfire, Curtiss JN4, or sailplane. Do the same in Hexagon or Blender? Not on your life.
Regarding the appearance of finished works, one thing I really miss is using LDP/LDP2 which was a nice elegant lighting system that worked and allowed me to give my scenes a sense of presence. The plugin was never updated for 4.5+ (and I don't consider LDP-R to be anything near the original concept as it requires a second application to achieve the same results).
I find UE lights tend to make the works I create appear rather "dull" in comparison to the older LDP ones (no doubt partly because I'm stymied by concepts like AO, HDRI and all the numbers involved). They may offer a more "realistic" look, but I discovered I prefer the warm almost "painterly" feel I could get with LDP. Looking back at some of the work I did in Daz 1.8 - 3.1, it just seems to stand out more and look more "alive" than what I have been producing since. The two things that keep me from rolling back though is Genesis, which for one like myself who enjoys creating original characters, is a major advancement, and the fact that a lot of newer content I have is not compatible with the early versions of the app.
I also do little postwork myself as I am just not good at it since my hands are not steady enough anymore. I pretty much only use it like others here have mentioned, to deal with issues like pokethrough that cannot be cleaned up, eliminating pesky render artefacts, adding text or a special effect to an image, or to apply a general filter to the scene to get a certain "mood" which cannot be accomplished in the rendering process. I would do more if I could use Deviney's brushes and effects, however, neither GIMP or PSP (before X5 - I have X4) can load them directly without resorting to a conversion routine I've had little to no success with using.
So yes, I agree, some of the techniques and tools others use which give their work presence (or as Waldemar would say, "pop") are missing in my work as I admittedly have a difficult time understanding and/or ustilising them.
As to doing challenges for "putting food on the table" (as LeatherGryphon mentions), in a way that is it for it seems to be the only way I can put the content and tools that I need in the runtime anymore.
Hi Kyoto Kid, I can relate.
I sometimes draw artistic nude drawings with Gimp. I tried to upload some artistic nude drawings to a certain website. The website is moderated so that good, high quality artwork will exist on the website. Whenever I upload my artwork to said website, the moderators reject my drawings because they are not of high quality. They say that the lighting is bad, I have anatomy errors, I have no shading, I didn't draw shadows, there is not enough contrast, the angle is weird... ect. Someone even mentioned that my background is ugly. Hey, that is my art style. I'm sure some of you people have seen my clean art on DeviantArt.
The above website doesn't allow nude renders of Victoria or Genesis either. 3D models must be made from scratch. Grrr.
Then I decided to upload my artistic nude drawings to another website that didn't have moderators. Other artists and art fans love my 2D drawings.
Ok, sorry to rant in Kyoto Kid's thread.
Where is it written that you must upgrade to the latest version of an app?
If you prefer DS3A and LDP2 then use it. Granted, you won't be able to use Genesis or G2F but then there are no perfect solutions.
In the end, the only one labelling you a "loser" is yourself and that is a waste. A waste of time and energy I'm pretty sure you don't have to waste.
I'm sorry, but his struck a chord with me.
If you're creating art solely to win contests, then you're in it for the wrong reasons. The number one reason most artists create is for themselves, to get their ideas and interpretations out there. It brings them happiness merely to be creating something.
Winning contests and making money with your art is only a bonus. If the number one reason you're creating art isn't for yourself, then you're never going to be happy.
I think everyone feels frustrated with contests every now and again.
A couple years ago my entries were not really that good and I got very frustrated at my poor work.
So I went back and relooked at all the stuff I learned way back in college, I studied the artwork I liked and looked even at the work of people in this industry who I respect, and put serious intent into bettering my artistic skills.
So now when I think my work is finally decent.....I had a comment in one contest that I entered (which will not be named), where I was asked if I would mind if they did not include my entry in the competition because of my professional status. ....My WHAT? *smacks head*....only thing I sell professionally are my characters, not my artwork.
So I finally got to the point where i felt confident that I could do good work, and was then asked not to compete.
I did drop out of that contest because i found that too ridiculous.
So yeah......contests can be frustrating...but I will keep trying if the theme appeals to me.
Rawn
...that is the reason for the theme of this thread.
...yeah, the old "d****ed if yo do d****ed if you don't" situation. Been there before a number of times.
It has been almost a year since I've been a member of Platinum Club and I am contemplating whether I should keep my membership...or not. It has not been what I expected. I was looking forward the "Gallery" and its contests (discontinued)... The PC weekly and monthly challenges are fun but... I did NOT realize I would have to purchase an item (or 2 or 3 or even 4) EVERY week. It is getting quite expensive. I have spent over $2,000.00 on Daz STUFF since I joined. For WHAT purpose???
THAT has been my dilemma. WHY am I buying all this STUFF??? I had hoped I would win a few more contests to help at least pay the $90.00 join up fee... I have won a few contests and I know I am still new to 3D (about a year and a half... never new it existed before then) and post work... etc... I don't own fancy programs for post work... Most of the post work I do is in my Paint Shop Pro 7 program (talk about old???) but, I have a friend who helps me with GIMP now and then. Frankly... it took me a while to try postwork; somehow it seems like "cheating" to me. Most of the post work I do is to fix a stray pixel, add a sparkle or two and add my signature.
But I'm left with the burning question... WHY???? Is it a hobby??? Am I going to find a job with my talents??? A million questions. I don't have a "job". I am a housewife that spends HOURs working on renders... searching forums and the internet to try and figure out all the bells-n-whistles the DAZ program can do... and for what???
Well... duuuuuh... YES!!! I want to win contests.... DUH... I know you are all thinking it too. LOL ... I do this to get recognition, maybe some huge talent agent will see my work and hire me for a job??? (Wishful thinking... lol) Making money if I can is my goal. WHO would spend $2,000.00 a YEAR to loose a contest every week and get squashed in the ego like an ant with a big boot??? I HATE it when I loose. The worst part is... not knowing why... or WHY the winner won. WHAT made THEIR render so special to win??? I go to sleep EVERY week wondering WHY. The other question that bugs me is... WHO's doing the choosing??? Is it 1 person that picks THEIR favorite??? And... If so... do they ONLY pick their friends??? WHAT do they look for in a good render so I can make mine at least come up to their standards? Some renders I know SHOULD have won... but some... I'm like... "WHAT were they thinking???" (My opinion... I know) LOL... It would be nice to at least know WHY they picked the render they did... and HOW it was chosen.
I don't much care for critiques... they are only 1 persons opinion. If I... ASK... for a critique then that is another story. But let's face it... some people are NOT nice. Most everyone on the DAZ forums have been wonderful and I THANK each and every one of you who have helped me.
Too sum it all up...
Will I continue to use DAZ to create artwork as a hobby (until I am "discovered")??? Yes...
Will I continue to enter DAZ forum contests to try and WIN??? Yes...
Will I pay another $70.00 to continue belonging to Platinum Club???? Probably NOT. (I feel that loyal customers should get PC club for FREE... Even BEST BUY gives me a free membership if I spend a certain dollar amount every year... which I do by the way... lol)
Anyway (gets down from her soapbox)... this is all 1 girls opinion... and I thank YOU for reading it. This seemed like the right thread to put it in... Hope you don't mind Koyoto Kid.
Hugzzzz to you all for your support,
Llola Lane :)
Happy Rendering!!!
...your rant is perfectly welcome. I feel the same way a lot of the time.
2000 bucks!!! and I know many users buy more than that, and still claiming "can't buy Modo,3Dmax, Maya, Keyshot, Zbrush or [Any other]", duh!
in 3D there are, in my humble perspective, 2 ways:
1- Buy content premade because not having the time, or skills to do personal 3D modelling.
2-Modelling by yourself, obviously it takes a ton or learning curve but it's worth the wait, believe me.
I assume because is #1 the main reason why all buy premade content.
2000 bucks!!! and I know many users buy more than that, and still claiming "can't buy Modo,3Dmax, Zbrush or [Any other]", duh!
in 3D there are, in my humble perspective, 2 ways:
1- Buy content premade because not having the time, or skills to do personal 3D modelling.
2-Modelling by yourself, obviously it takes a ton or learning curve but it's worth the wait, believe me.
I assume because is #1 the main reason why all buy premade content.
Yes, that and I usually don't have $2000 or even $500 available at once. It's $10 here, $25 there... I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Also 3D isn't my job, and it's not my only hobby, so I'm not just denying myself 3D stuff while I wait to save up the money for an advanced suite, I'm also denying myself books, yarn, fabric, beads, paint, dice, trips to the museum, movies, music...
Sorry, I'm not putting my life and my art on hold for 6 months to get a high-end suite and then pound my head against a wall for the next 6 months (or more) while I learn how to use it.
...exactly.
As I mentioned I just cannot seem to grasp the concept in a digital setting like I could with physical materials. I've built aircraft, rockets, worked with clay, glass, wood, metal, made costumes. theatrical props, kites, all which all seemed simple and straightforward as the only numbers I had to deal with were linear measurements and scale factors.
In comparison, the processes used in 3D modelling seem so alien to me as they use a language I have a great deal of difficulty comprehending. Working on a 3D model, I find a lot of the tools confusing if not incomprehensible compared to a modelling knife, sandpaper., scissors or sewing machine. Add to this, the instability of Hexagon which seems to freeze up and crash with some frequency, and it becomes a rather discouraging process.
I guess that it feels more natural to work with something I can actually touch and hold, which I have to to physically manipulate or walk around to see all the sides of.
2000 bucks!!! and I know many users buy more than that, and still claiming "can't buy Modo,3Dmax, Maya, Keyshot, Zbrush or [Any other]", duh!
in 3D there are, in my humble perspective, 2 ways:
1- Buy content premade because not having the time, or skills to do personal 3D modelling.
2-Modelling by yourself, obviously it takes a ton or learning curve but it's worth the wait, believe me.
I assume because is #1 the main reason why all buy premade content.
Hi zilvergrafix...Yes... I've gone over my finances since I've joined the PC club... I'm spending close to... or over $200.00 per month on DAZ merchandise (that's being frugal too.. buying only when and item is on sale for 50% off or more)... I know others are spending more. (that's why I think DAZ needs a customer loyalty program.. to give membership who spend so much a year a free PC membership) I would loooooooooooooooove to learn how to make stuff... I have the free Bryce and Hexagon... I've dabbled a tiny bit... but to be honest I didn't even know about these programs til a year ago and it's waaaaaay too much for me to learn. Not sure what those other programs you mentioned are. And I'm quite happy with my Paint Shop Pro 7 and the occasional GIMP for my post work. I spend most of my free time rendering... I'm still learning DAZ.. ahhh IF only the days were longer.. and we lived longer.. I would need another lifetime to learn it all.. and I'm NOT getting any younger :(.... So.. I will have to be content to BUY or search for FREE stuff. I've bought enough to last me 3 lifetimes and I'll probably never use it all. My goal now is to try and make at least 1 render with everything I've bought... THAT.. should keep me busy for the next year since I won't be buying as much from DAZ... Maybe I'll even get some free time to try to model some things myself ;) ...Happy Rendering!
Yes, that and I usually don't have $2000 or even $500 available at once. It's $10 here, $25 there... I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Also 3D isn't my job, and it's not my only hobby, so I'm not just denying myself 3D stuff while I wait to save up the money for an advanced suite, I'm also denying myself books, yarn, fabric, beads, paint, dice, trips to the museum, movies, music...
Sorry, I'm not putting my life and my art on hold for 6 months to get a high-end suite and then pound my head against a wall for the next 6 months (or more) while I learn how to use it.
Ditto for me DaWaterRat... and those $10 here and $25 there really add up fast in a month.. before you know it.. I'm at $200. In fact.. just this month.. Sept 1st to the 22nd.. I'm up to $210.00!! eep.. and the month isn't even over yet.. ughhh... I need more willpower! lol
...exactly.
As I mentioned I just cannot seem to grasp the concept in a digital setting like I could with physical materials. I've built aircraft, rockets, worked with clay, glass, wood, metal, made costumes. theatrical props, kites, all which all seemed simple and straightforward as the only numbers I had to deal with were linear measurements and scale factors.
In comparison, the processes used in 3D modelling seem so alien to me as they use a language I have a great deal of difficulty comprehending. Working on a 3D model, I find a lot of the tools confusing if not incomprehensible compared to a modelling knife, sandpaper., scissors or sewing machine. Add to this, the instability of Hexagon which seems to freeze up and crash with some frequency, and it becomes a rather discouraging process.
I guess that it feels more natural to work with something I can actually touch and hold, which I have to to physically manipulate or walk around to see all the sides of.
I'm in the same boat Kyoto Kid... give me a pattern and some fabric and I can make you a shirt in RL faster than I can in a modeling program... I've been sewing for 50+ years... but I've only learned about DAZ a year and a half ago. I need ANOTHER lifetime.. I was born too late. Technology is going faster than me!!!
Oh.. and btw... with NO instruction booklet it takes even longer to figure out these modeling programs and Daz.. and.. if you want to BUY videos.. etc.. they are NOT cheap! MORE money to spend.. ughhh .. WHERE does it end??? Cancelling my membership for me I guess. I have NO willpower.. I want it ALL!... and I HAVE been picky and choosy with my purchases too. :)
Yes, that and I usually don't have $2000 or even $500 available at once. It's $10 here, $25 there... I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Also 3D isn't my job, and it's not my only hobby, so I'm not just denying myself 3D stuff while I wait to save up the money for an advanced suite, I'm also denying myself books, yarn, fabric, beads, paint, dice, trips to the museum, movies, music...
Sorry, I'm not putting my life and my art on hold for 6 months to get a high-end suite and then pound my head against a wall for the next 6 months (or more) while I learn how to use it.
...point well said.
Until this last spring, I was working on a system that could barely support Daz 4.5 very well (and had difficulty even with Daz 3.1) let alone a more robust app. For five years that was the best I could afford. I spent over eighteen months learning about how to design and build a system while saving and at times acquiring components as I could afford them. It's definitely not "State of the Art" (more what I like to refer to as a Johnny Cash "One Piece At A Time" affair), but it works and is still a vast improvement over what I was working with for nearly five years.
True, over those 5 years I probably acquired if not exceeded the price of say Modo or Vue Infinite in apps, plugins, and tools for Daz, but as you mention it was over a long period of time which is easier to handle on a tight budget when you have other pursuits and expenses. Save for the upgrade to Poser Pro 2012, I don't believe I ever spent over 100$ in any one 3D purchase (the only ones that came close were my MD2 personal licence and the sidegrade from Poser8 to Poser Pro 2010, both at at 99$).
Ok, I haven't even read half of this thread, but I'm definitely siding with the skill + effort = win group.
I haven't been doing 3D all that long. The first and only competition I entered was on deviantART. The pooled prizes were worth at least a couple of thousand dollars, so attracted some very talented artists (though not as many as it deserved to). In the end there was maybe 50 entries. I didn't place, but I did receive an honourable mention. My tools: DS 4 and PS Elements (but my post techniques don't include much more than touch-ups and adjustments).
We really are lucky with DAZ Studio to have access to a render engine like 3Delight. Most people have to spend hundreds of dollars to get access to the full non-restricted version. If we aren't winning competitions we need to critically evaluate our own work to see why. In the end it won't come down to software. What it comes down to is that we (the people who didn't place) were outdone in terms of technique and/or artistic vision.
A skilled 3D artist using DS will achieve results.
I won one contest this year but it was in a very specific category.
Then my advice to you: forget the contests, forget the "mediocre" work, and concentrate on the story, because it's all people will give a damn about anyway. And very little of what's liked or not liked, valuable or not valuable, in the 3D world, will be of any help in creating that story.
The long (oh lord, long) version:
Please note I can only speak from personal experience here. I don't know if you're talking about a comic (my area of story expertise) or if/how you plan on sharing that story. And, y'know, single person.
That said -- I have no art background. I work in free or cheap programs (DAZ, Gimp, and ComicLife -- which I bought for $10). Because I upgraded to Genesis this year and have been retooling, this has been a massive spending year for me at $600 to date, but I suspect I'm still on the low end as far as buying goes. On the occasions I post renders to the forums, in contests or otherwise, they sink like rocks. One honorable mention, which I treasure, in the Freebie forum contest; other than that, I rarely even get a comment.
My webcomic has been running for five years and has probably around 500 readers (despite two bad hiatuses and my continuing struggle to update this year -- blah.) For a small science fiction comic with 3D art and no sex, that's not bad. They're there for the writing, and I know it, but I also get a steady stream of comments telling me that I have the best use of 3D they've ever seen, that I'm the only 3D comic they can bear to look at, that I am their second-favorite comic after Girl Genius (yes, someone actually told me that. OMG. Flattered doesn't even cover it.) They ask me when the print comic is coming out. They ask me for wallpaper. They compliment my bloody art, and I don't think I can explain to you how weird that is to me.
So what gives? Am I a bad artist, or a good one?
I'm a decent (and improving) visual storyteller.
And here's the thing -- when you're doing a visual story or comic, when you're working outside the very narrow compound of 3D art, that's what people care about. They do not care that V6 has a better butt than V5. They do not care if you're using Reality or Lux. The things readers notice and comment on in my artwork, from most commented to least:
1) Clarity of action and visuals (all too often "I can't make out what's going on, it's too dark." Oh, nighttime lighting. You'll be the death of me.)
2) Posing (usually "that looks off and it's creeping me out.")
3) Characterization - in my case this is usually positive, but sometimes contrasted against other 3d comics ("Usually all the women in Poser comics look the same, but yours don't!")
4) Clothing choices and weirdnesses. Specifically, people notice when clothes don't sit right and complain; they notice boob cling and complain LOUDLY; I've had occasional negative comments on women being scantily clad (although once I fixed the boob cling these went away, so it might be more of the same); and they occasionally spot pokethrough I've forgotten to fix in Gimp.
I don't have any way to tell what the judges in competitions around here are looking for (though thank you, Novica, for your description of your process. Now I just wish I had the education to understand it. *wry grin* ) but from looking at winning entries I think the things I'm listing are relatively minor considerations -- the icing, as it were. Whereas for the vast majority of renders I do, they're the bloody cake.
Which means I'm never going to be good enough for those contests. They are a different beast than the beast I hunt every day. They take a different set of well-honed skills which I do not possess.
And, y'know? I'm okay with that. Because I am a decent visual storyteller. Because I do have people writing to say how much they love my comic. Because where it counts, I'm succeeding.
I mean, I still enter the contests sometimes because they're fun and someday I might get a surprise $5 out of it. But it's the icing. It's not the cake.
I guess what I'm saying is, if the contests here are that frustrating for you, maybe it's not your toolset or your skill level or your renders. Maybe you're just trying to bake the wrong cake. :D Figure out what you want to do with 3D and do it and be good at it, but recognize that doing so won't necessarily mean you'll get to win shiny prizes here. The specific things prized in the 3D/Daz world are a very, very narrow subset of the things valuable in art as a whole. And being good at them will not necessarily make you good at the other things -- or vice versa.
So screw the prizes. Figure out what you love doing. Then do that.