Announcing The Platinum Club Plus [Beta] Program
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Actually we were just talking about this.. and I think we'd do it on a per-product basis. There are some older items which are still valuable and relevant, so we'd look at each one really, rather than doing it by a certain date/figure criteria.
The PC has nothing to do with whether any PA's products are worth more than $1.99. The whole point of it is that, as members, we get discounted products for a fee. The whole, "don't you think my products are worth more?" complaint is a complete red herring and kind of emotional blackmail. If any PA is dissatisfied with the PC arrangement then don't participate or don't offer products that they want more money for. What are we paying $70 a year for if we don't get discounted products? The coupon is nothing special when at least once a month everyone gets $6 off anyway. DAZ is not doing us a favour - we pay for these discounts!
Just want to clarify one point - PA's don't contribute in the same way to the PC.. their items are not brokered, they are purchased outright by the PC. This is part of the equation, as sourcing these items has increased in cost, along with additional elements such as commissioning artwork and covering QA costs.
The 'don't participate or don't offer products' is a valid option, however we've always endeavoured to get the best content for our members, which is why I 99% of the time also offer my own content up to the PC. But yea, maybe one thing that comes out of all is that I cease to do that.. however I can't help but think that it also a negative for the members.
What is the full equation / business model? The PC purchases the PA content, the PC creates the marketing renders, performs qc and markets the product. So how does the Artist (PA) get compensated, flat rate for for perpetual, exclusive rights? It would seem fair if merchandising and sales responsibilities fell to DAZ, seems fair to own support & QC (send bugs back to the dev and hold to standards). Is the program not able to pay artists competitively for the assets? Why not open up the procurement market with an open submission & bidding (competitive bid submits / or reverse bid offers) system so any 3d artist can submit and increase the competition.
Whit respect to testing and implementing changes to minimize risk and disruption, are you familiar with the concepts established by Dr Demmings, in particular the Deming philosophy and the Shewhart >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming
" As a repetitive process to determine the next action, the Shewhart Cycle describes a simple method to test information before making a major decision."
About the "other club". I'm a member, I rarely buy the $3.50 items so they sit in my wishlist forever. There is only a coupon every so often but what it does offer is a reward scheme - so the more you spend the more cash back you receive. They regularly have 50% PA sales and offer 50% off particular new products over the month. Whether this is worthwhile is debatable. I don't think I'll renew with that club again and only did this time because renewal was 50% off.
I think all content providers are struggling partly because of the recession and because most of the products they offer are unoriginal or updates of old products for new figures. That's why I believe DAZ is in a unique position to use DS to attract a much wider user base if it develops DS and makes content much more compatible with other software. I think DAZ once had it's eye on this goal but it's dropped the ball and now relies on an ever decreasing circle of devotees to its closed system to generate profit. A great example of how to promote your product by diversifying is OTOY's Octane Render (no I'm not a shareholder!) I can't believe that with the great assets DAZ have in DS and its content that they can't see beyond squeezing their own members.
As a little experiment, I drew up six scenarios and tested to see how each of these six imaginary customers would be affected by switching to PC+. In the past, I've probably had months that resembled each of these categories, myself. :lol: If your average monthly spending pattern (or your anticipated July spending) is a close fit for any of the six, this might help you choose whether to opt in or not. You might want to double-check my math first though, just in case! ;-) (the budgets don't include the cost of the membership itself, but that's the same between PC and PC+ so it doesn't make a difference)
Customer A
Customer A--let's call him Al--is on a shoestring budget. In an average month, he might purchase two new-release PC items, let's say an outfit or environment (with a base price of $16.95) and a pose or texture set (with a base price of $10.95). The only other puchase Al will make is an inexpensive DAZ Original, in order to take advantage of the monthly PC coupon. Let's say that after the coupon is applied, this transaction costs about $4.
Total expenses with PC: 1.99 + 1.99 + 4 = $7.98
Total expenses with PC+: 3.56 + 2.30 + 4 = $9.86 (the second coupon doesn't get used as Al can't afford the $18 minimum)
Conclusion: At first glance, it appears that Al might be better off staying with the regular PC...however, with PC+ he might elect to use the monthly coupon on an older PC item and therefore avoid spending the extra $4. It's also likely that Al might choose to buy fewer PC items if on a PC+ membership, so he might find himself spending less and getting less, or spending the same and getting different things than he would have otherwise. So Al could probably justify either option.
Customer B
Customer B - Bella - is on a tight budget too, but has different priorities than Al. She usually doesn't buy any PC items. She spends the same $4 on a DAZ Original as Al does. She also spends an average of $10 per month on PA items, usually something on sale.
Total expenses with PC: 4 + 10 = $14.00
Total expenses with PC+: 0 + 14 = $14.00 (with PC+, she chooses a cheaper item to use the monthly coupon on, and spends her $14 budget on PA items in order to take advantage of the second coupon)
Conclusion: She's spending the same but getting more for her money with PC+.
Customer C
Customer C (Carlos) has a moderate budget. He usually buys about six PC items per month: two new outfits or environments, two new texture sets, and two older products (one set and an add-on for it). He usually buys the new-release DAZ Original character, but opts for the base rather than a bundle, and uses the monthly coupon on that purchase, which comes to $13.58 after all discounts have been applied. Carlos spends about $10 on PA items in a given month.
Total expenses with PC: 1.99*6 + 13.58 + 10 = $35.52
Total expenses with PC+: 3.56*2 + 2.30*2 + 5.09 + 3.29 + 13.58 + 14 = $47.68 (he winds up spending a little more on PA items in order to take advantage of the second coupon)
Conclusion: This customer is probably better off not opting in to PC+
Customer D
Customer D (let's call him David) also has a moderate budget, but devotes less of it to PC items than Carlos. He usually buys two new PC items (a hairstyle and extra textures for it) and no older ones. He buys a new-release starter bundle and uses his coupon on that. He spends $20 on PA items.
Total expenses with PC: 1.99 + 1.99 + 33.18 + 20 = $57.16
Total expenses with PC+ 3.56 + 2.30 + 33.18 + 14 = $53.04 (he applies the second coupon to his PA product order)
Conclusion: He's probably a little better off with PC+. If the PA products he purchases are subject to a stacking discount, he might get even more for his money.
Customer E
Customer E (Elsa) has a larger budget and usually buys several PC items and several PA items (spending an average of $50 in total on PA items). Elsa uses her PC coupon on a pro bundle that is not a new release and catches it while it's on sale, 50% off.
Total expenses with PC: 1.99*10 + 37.76 + 50 = $107.66
Total expenses with PC+: 3.56*4 + 2.30*4 + 5.09 + 3.29 + 37.76 + 35 = $104.58 (she gets a better deal on the PA items thanks to the second coupon and stacking discounts)
Conclusion: Elsa does about as well with either membership option. If her spending is skewed a little more towards PC items, she might be better off not opting in. If her spending is skewed a little more towards PA items, then she's better off with PC+.
Customer F
Customer F (Fei) has a larger budget and mostly buys new releases. She might buy two PC items in a given month, usually grabs the new-release pro bundle, and spends about $100 on PA items (some subject to PC+, and some not).
Total expenses with PC: 1.99 + 1.99 + 55.23 + 100 = $159.21
Total expenses with PC+: 3.56 + 2.30 + 55.23 + 80 = $141.09
Conclusion: since the bulk of Fei's spending goes toward PA items, the new benefits of PC+ more than offset the higher prices she pays for PC items. Fei should probably opt in.
Tentative overall conclusion:
If you spend a significant portion of your monthly budget on PC items, then in my opinion PC+ might not be the best value for you
If you spend a small fraction of your monthly budget on PC items, then in my opinion PC+ probably is your best bet.
(If you aren't sure, or fall somewhere in the middle, then think it over extra carefully!)
Of course, these are all imaginary examples, and I'm making a number of assumptions in each case, so please take this with the necessary dose of salt. I hope you find it useful all the same. :)
We are looking at ways to implement this .. In the short term we may just add this info manually to the description, that is not an optimal way to do it though.. at anyrate we will be talking to Web about this.
All of which are... the same spending customers. Changing up the offers does not affect that. Is the problem with the business model that existing customers are not yielding enough sales, sales not yielding enough profits or that more customers are needed?
We are looking at ways to implement this .. In the short term we may just add this info manually to the description, that is not an optimal way to do it though.. at anyrate we will be talking to Web about this.
Thank you Laurie. I mean the site's been up for what 2 years now? Thanks
Jack, you said, "but if the price tag is non-negotiable at 1.99, as it appears to be the general consensus (in this thread at least)"
There have been MANY posts that say many of us are okay with increases of a dollar or two, depending on what other perks are in place. Okay, 'nuff said.
Here goes.
First, after enduring graduate statistics and hating it, I do have to admit a lot of it has stayed with me through my professional career as I often had to research proposed changes and get a good demographic sample of target populations. For me, any study is worthless unless DAZ researchers...
1.identify each person's start date
2. identify when people began buying (could be a period of years between when they joined and when they actively started buying)
3. you take each person and have a starting base of how many products they own
4. you identify how many products are Platinum Club
5. you identify how many PC items have been purchased in the past 3 months at a minimum compared to the first 3 months, if they have been a member at least 6 months.
Let's stop there to explore why this is important.
If you see a slowdown in number 5, that person has saturated what they want/need from the Club, with the understanding their financial status may have changed. Since there is no way to identify that variable, you have to just look at the data with the understanding there is an unknown factor. However, the recession has been in place longer than 6 months, so that tempers it somewhat, even though people's financial status changes dues to many factors. You just have to do the best you can.
Now, to continue, and this is from a business standpoint, and NOT saying people who spend more money or buy more products are more important than anyone else, it just means DAZ MAY BE getting a lot of money from them.
There is a difference between spending more money vs buying more products Assuming they are the same thing is an erroneous assumption. During sales, people who saved up may have bought a lot of products- there were some really ridiculous sales (I was getting 75-80% off during the snowball sale, top tier, stacking discounts.) SO...
6. Daz has to identify with EACH person how much they have spent overall.
7. DAZ has to identify how much was spent on PC items. And...
8. how much was spent during sales- the percentage of sale purchases vs regular buying vs PC buying.
Then compare the new shopping habits during their participation in the new PC+.
Anything else is NOT a valid study. And there's NO WAY DAZ is going to do this.
You have to know who is saturated with PC products for this to even be studied. Analyzing your big spenders, the people with the most products, the "average" spenders- all have to be separate studies.
I own a lot of products and I've NEVER been polled or surveyed. No one that I know has been surveyed either.
So DAZ is dealing with many different scenarios and being meticulous about comparing the variables is a must. That's why I think statements about research are ludicrous- they aren't going to do it right because they don't have the time or manpower to do it. It has nothing to do with their intentions or willingness to do the right thing- it's just logistics and what HAS to be done for this to be studied correctly IMO.
I was told by a Daz employee when I asked about this at one point that this was INTENTIONAL because it creates a "must buy now" feeling in the customer if they are afraid that the sale may end any time. Even when people ask when a sale ends, they are generally not told a date. It seems to me that this is part of the new Daz marketing philosophy.
The PC Plus model doesn't appeal to me, personally, though as an optional program I can see that some may like it. What I am concerned by are a number of comments that "the $1.99 pc pricing isn't sustainable". Does this mean that the intention is that the PC Plus will replace the normal PC rather than be a different option if Daz deems it successful?
Yeah, that. I really dislike the convoluted pricing schemes that have taken over here and would be thrilled to have the old voucher system back. But I'm sure that's not going to happen.
A good question--which I certainly don't have the knowledge to even attempt to answer--but I was just trying to provide information from a customer's point of view, to help people make a choice about opting in or not.
Don't groan before you read past the next question-
Why not have two separate PC Clubs, with members belonging to BOTH?
The first PC club would be the one we have now, with perhaps a dollar to a dollar fifty increase and keeping the new perks. (Which are what members wanted- using codes for PA items.) Older things would be priced lower. After a period of time, prices could lower (or not.)
The second would have the sets/scenes/bigger items pulled from the first PC club- and be the Platinum Club Sets.
The entire discussion centers around raising prices because SOME of the items are more complicated- those being sets- so why re-create the wheel when all you need to do is move the spokes causing the concern?
Well to me that's underhanded sales technique that needs to be squashed. That pisses me off even more then! :-(
Hmmm, I actually like that idea, Bad4u.
This is very important. I've bought most of the PC back catalogue I want so as a member I rely on new products but when they are rehashes of older stuff (particularly clothing) I think why buy it again when I can probably autofit the older version. Meanwhile I struggle to animate figures because the clothing often has poke through or the animation system is clunky and if DAZ developed DS so this wasn't a problem I'd buy those fixes. So a product that I really want never arrives but loads more of what I already have piles up in the shop. After awhile PC offers diminishing returns for those who invest a lot.
I was also NEVER polled or surveyed. For a relatively large spender over the years this seems particularly odd. But then maybe because there are not that many back catalogue PC products left for me to buy I'm not the target purchaser any longer?
I also own Lightwave which I rarely use because I can't use my DAZ content with it. There are regular posts on the Lightwave forum asking if DAZ content can be used with Lightwave. Sadly the answer is no and then the discussion is dropped until usually a new Lightwave owner asks again. When reading these threads I often wonder how much money DAZ could have made if the answer had been yes.
This might work but the problem with many of these ideas is, will they generate more profits? Once prices go up on non-essential items then often sales go down among those who recall the earlier prices. Those new to the system might be ok with this because they know no different. But the bottom line is that without attracting new customers there's only so much mileage out of the present ones until they reduce spending in protest or they're priced out.
However much we say that we MUST have certain content it's still a non-essential item unlike housing, food and energy. Content falls into the disposable income category so if the DI doesn't increase (which is probably the case for most of us atm) then nor will sales. If the energy bill goes up we need to meet the costs but if the content bill increases not so much. Bottom line - attract more customers cos the present ones haven't got much more to give!
Ok it's not native, but you can export as FBX and import it straight into LW.
I'd gladly make my content work natively, but the question is.. how many people here use it? and if you're talking expanding into markets such as LW/Max/Maya, aren't we going from a hobby/enthusiast to pro level stuff?
If we looked at having content working across these different platforms, that in turn drives the cost up.
All that said, it is something which we've been kicking around for a while actually, but again, it's not a simple answer :)
Okay, what the hey; I'll play.
Just made the conversion to PC+ Beta.
A few thoughts, though:
I joined the PC mostly for the extra discounts, especially for major new releases; getting 51% off, instead the normal 30%, made buying the Pro bundles a lot more palatable. It's nice to know that that isn't going to change.
The rotating artists' store discounts don't really move me all that much. There are only a couple of artists whose work I'll snap up, simply because it's their work. (Hi, Jack!) So, on that point..., meh.
Sure, the $1.99 PC items were a nice perk, and I owe it to that benefit that my content libraries have grown to the state they now are: so much stuff that I have no idea what half of it is! (Lately, I've only found out that I even have something when it turns up in an RRRR pull!) So, in that respect, maybe setting the price point a little higher would be a good thing: it will make me more inclined to actually think about what I'm buying, rather than just think, "Ooh, new PC stuff!" (Click 'Add to Cart', click 'Add to Cart', click 'Add to Cart'....) So I won't really miss them all that much if they go away.
I have never fully understood the business model behind those $1.99 PC items, anyway (I always thought the artists were getting screwed!), so thank you for finally explaining it to me. And, now that I have a better understanding of how it all actually works..., it appears that I was right all along; the artists were getting screwed! I'm glad to see that that issue is finally being addressed.
I've never been much for the whole 'coupon game', so I don't really give a fat, furry gerbil's butt about that, one way or another; too many 'terms and conditions' to make it worth the effort. (Kind of like a Macy's coupon in that respect. Have you ever read the fine print on one of those things? Why doesn't the thing just say, "Not valid for anything in the store that you might conceivably want to buy." It would certainly be more honest.) Even so..., hey; six bucks is six bucks, right?
Anyway, that's my two cents'.
Also, this is being presented as a case of fairness by increasing the amount PA's get for particular PC products but if that's the case then why are PC+ prices increasing across the board?
The problem with finding a simple answer is that it really isn't a simple question. I doubt it will ever be simple for the simple reason that the customer base is so wide and varied. Just skimming through some of the responses here, I saw different reasons for people's responses, limited funds/not so limited, little content/lots of content, hobbyist/earns money using content. The list is a lot wider than that. with such a wide base of interest in the customers, it is hard to have a simple solution to the PC club. And as for having various options for the PC - I know that I would not be happy with having more than one option. It is my thought (atm) that the option listed here as a Beta is a fair(ish) and more easily swallowed option thank may have been offered up.
And of course, the more I think about it, the more I suddenly come back to something I said pages back: lack of incentive to buy NOW. Even if the prices get raised, if there is no sense of urgency, then the PC items are still likely to get hoarded on wish lists. I do that here, I do the same at Rendo with the $3.50 items. I'm more likely to pick the $2.50 items at RDNA because they go off sale and become $5 after a time.
This is just me spitballing (or talking out of my sizable rear end - you decide). What if you just get rid of the PC and switch to a model closer to what RDNA has? Offer a new batch of bargain items each week, just like you do now for the PC, but offer them at a slightly higher price like the $2.50 at RDNA. That opens up the buying pool to your entire clientele. If you want to add further incentive you could add in a snowball effect for purchasing a certain number of the bargain items each week. At the end of the month you get a snowball coupon you can use on purchases the following month for DOs, older PA items, and older bargain items.
That's exactly what I did. That said, however, I only had 7 PC $1.99 items in my wishlist. As a long-time (9 1/2 years) PC member, that's all I wanted that I didn't already have, so I purchased them and one V4 sale item that was also in my wishlist, and then opted in for the PC+ membership.
Needless to say, as stated by others, members who haven't been here long are going to feel the price change more than I will, because there's a lot of the back catalog they'd like to get, and $1.99 is the better price for them.
Someone, I can't recall who, thought that the PC+ membership will be the standard some time after the beta period, but I'm not sure that's the case. I suspect there's going to be both options, but since I can't read the minds of the DAZ marketing team, I could be wrong. I would hope, at the very least, we'll have a transition period where we can remain PC members if we want before either upgrading to PC+, or opting out of the PC altogether.
Just my 2¢ FWIW
I agree, the guessing when a sale is going to end sales gimmick is really getting old.
This month I let my pc membership expire. Even though I mainly buy for Gen 4 I had kept my membership up until I realized that it actually was not benefiting me to have it.
Sure I spent money on the Gen 4 sale, but the new sales meant little to nothing to me, and once I buy out everything that I want here made for Gen 4, the new dragon, or Genesis I will barely spend anything on this site after. It is what is being offered, it simply does not grab my attention.
And the new stuff, even if I were a big Genesis 2 fan, I would still use the older stuff and autofit it because there is just nothing new to grab that has not been done in some way either as a freebie or at another site which is already compatible with my figures.
Nothing against the vendors, really you guys are awesome, but there are only a few new outfits that I would spend any money on. On the other hand, I bought up quite a bit of the Genesis stuff in the pc club just because for the price even if I did not use the item or even for one render image it my money would not have gone to waste.
If the pc prices go up to $3.50 or more then the reason for me to stick around as a member makes no sense, I can get these deals at another site.
Again there are only a few Vehicles, Scene props, Dragon items, Gen 4, or genesis items left to buy and nothing new to draw me in. I may not be the only member to think this way and it is not such a wise thing to lose even one customer when money is the driving force.
As much as Daz feels they deserve and probably need more money to continue on it is the customers money that means everything at this point. And the customers are in charge of who they give their money to.
Sorry for sounding like a sour puss.
Ok it's not native, but you can export as FBX and import it straight into LW.
I'd gladly make my content work natively, but the question is.. how many people here use it? and if you're talking expanding into markets such as LW/Max/Maya, aren't we going from a hobby/enthusiast to pro level stuff?
If we looked at having content working across these different platforms, that in turn drives the cost up.
All that said, it is something which we've been kicking around for a while actually, but again, it's not a simple answer :)
I realise none of these solutions are simple but for an effective business strategy, especially in times of recession, they need to be considered. You point out that LW is at the pro end but I think the gap between pro and non-pro is shrinking as the pro end start to realise that such is the competition now days that they need to attract the non-pro. Consequently they have been reducing prices and sales have been increasing in my experience. I think a lot of DAZ content would now be attractive to the pro market. Gen 2 is very realistic and some of the clothing and environments are too.
At the risk of repeating myself, the key asset that distinguishes DAZ is DS but it's falling behind even on an entry level basis. Many of us who started with DS are now frustrated with its limitations. Do we abandon DS for so-called "pro" software and discard our DAZ content because then DAZ loses us as customers forever or will DAZ move with the way their customers and the market are developing? (Many of us don't see the value in paying over $500 to access iClone's more versatile animation features. I'd rather spend that on content for an animation enhanced DAZ or to use in "pro" software.) 3D modelling has changed in the last decade as technology has developed and more people want to create using that format. The pace of change isn't as quick as the mobile phone and tablet market but it's still happening nonetheless.
Many users have LightWave and aren't pros. (at least not at the moment, lol) I got iClone at a fantastic price, and when other programs go on sale, amateurs snap them up if they can afford them/ want them. I bought Carrara and have yet to use it so I didn't bother with the upgrade. I agree that "pro" software is becoming used more and more by the masses if the price dips reasonably enough.
I dont seem to understand something.... if the problem is under valued products are not being profited enough by placing them in PC, then why not just NOT put them in PC and make them DO's instead???
-MJ
One thing to remember is that PC+ is a beta for a reason. This is something that we are testing out, and not something set in stone.
I can say that I was involved in several meetings, and this isn't something we put together over a weekend. This was something that was thought out and planned. That being said, this was something that we wanted to let our customers test. We are interested in your feedback.
I've read every post in this thread so far, and I'm taking notes. There have been some good ideas posted, some that we've already thought of, and some that we haven't.
I just want to remind everyone that nothing is set in stone in regards to PC+. I think the anthem for the PC+ should be Ellie Goulding's song "Anything Could Happen"... well not anything but hopefully you get my point.
I think the main problem is that the PC price is still the same as it was when the PC first started in October 2002,