New ZBrush release. DYNAMIC CLOTH

RAMWolff

 

Your mind will be blown.  Grab a snack and some coffee or what ever.  It's a 2 hour talk.  This takes NOTHING away from DAZ Studio.  

Leonides02

Holy moly! That is awesome. Could you import a posed DAZ character + clothes as seperate objects and have a powerful new dynamic cloth system?

RAMWolff

Watch the video, it's got allot of info in it about dynamics.  It's not just dynamics but there is a dynamic brush so you can set your figure as the object to drape over and then use the brush on I'm guessing older clothing items to make them drape.  Ever wanted to have a billowing cloth flow against a figure, the dynamic brush will allow for that to happen.  It's an amazing talk. It's worth your time if your considering getting ZBrush or already have it or use Core and are thinking of upgrading.  

MEC4D

That what it will do , import full figure with clothing , edit and sent the clothing obj as  morph back via GOZ to DS  and ready to render , it is going to be amazing , the dynamic clothing brushes even better 

Leonides02 said:

Holy moly! That is awesome. Could you import a posed DAZ character + clothes as seperate objects and have a powerful new dynamic cloth system?

 

Leonides02

MEC4D said:

That what it will do , import full figure with clothing , edit and sent the clothing obj as  morph back via GOZ to DS  and ready to render , it is going to be amazing , the dynamic clothing brushes even better 

Leonides02 said:

Holy moly! That is awesome. Could you import a posed DAZ character + clothes as seperate objects and have a powerful new dynamic cloth system?

 

Holy moly again!!!

If I'm understanding this correctly, we'll actually be able to add thickness to clothing, as well. 

Diomede

MEC4D said:

That what it will do , import full figure with clothing , edit and sent the clothing obj as  morph back via GOZ to DS  and ready to render , it is going to be amazing , the dynamic clothing brushes even better 

Leonides02 said:

Holy moly! That is awesome. Could you import a posed DAZ character + clothes as seperate objects and have a powerful new dynamic cloth system?

 

Summerhorse

This is so exciting! I have a feeling it will really refresh the back catalog here also- so many wonderfully textured items that just don't hang or pose right will be fixable now!

MEC4D

Yes you can , I was playing with it until 5am last night , not even go through half of new stuff but as I said working great on old stuff , you can actually do stuff no cloth simulations can do in other programs 

below my last night test of G2 old clothing.  

P.S it use also GPU for simulation so even better 

Leonides02 said:

MEC4D said:

That what it will do , import full figure with clothing , edit and sent the clothing obj as  morph back via GOZ to DS  and ready to render , it is going to be amazing , the dynamic clothing brushes even better 

Leonides02 said:

Holy moly! That is awesome. Could you import a posed DAZ character + clothes as seperate objects and have a powerful new dynamic cloth system?

 

Holy moly again!!!

If I'm understanding this correctly, we'll actually be able to add thickness to clothing, as well. 

 

MEC4D

If you have clothing that are not welded, you can use mask , simulation go by none masked or masked parts , easy to select what part need to be affected,  I think the most simple cloth simulation I ever used with a lot of versatility , changing direction if the gravity is cool too so automatic wind force, think here about Marilyn Monroe dress on the subway 

Summerhorse said:

This is so exciting! I have a feeling it will really refresh the back catalog here also- so many wonderfully textured items that just don't hang or pose right will be fixable now!

 

Diomede

Does it change the number or order of vertexes?  Can it be used to create various pose and correction morphs?

duckbomb

AH I MISSED THIS YESTERDAY GRABBING MY COFFEE NOW AND CANCELLING ALL LUNCH MEETINGS! 

 

I mean... priorities... after all ;)

MEC4D

No it don't , I loaded it as morph to DS , check render below from DS with morph

for correction morphs you need to use the inflate function , and before doing anything set the Collision volume on , the brushes doing amazing job too for corrections morphs, amazing new tool and huge time saving .  

when Collision volume is on, it getting little slower , so when working with cloth brushes just set it off . 

Diomede said:

Does it change the number or order of vertexes?  Can it be used to create various pose and correction morphs?

 

Diomede

MEC4D said:

No it don't , I loaded it as morph to DS , check render below from DS with morph

for correction morphs you need to use the inflate function , and before doing anything set the Collision volume on , the brushes doing amazing job too for corrections morphs, amazing new tool and huge time saving .  

when Collision volume is on, it getting little slower , so when working with cloth brushes just set it off . 

Diomede said:

Does it change the number or order of vertexes?  Can it be used to create various pose and correction morphs?

 

Thank you for the reply.  Great news.  Guess I'm going to blow the rest of this year's 3D budget.  And happily do so!  

Leonides02

This is stupendous. I guess I have to learn Zbrush now... 

duckbomb

Leonides02 said:

This is stupendous. I guess I have to learn Zbrush now... 

Michael Pavlovich has a GREAT starter series on his Gumroad for free, and also goes through pretty much all recent versions and their updates...  All of the "intro to" stuff is free, but if you're serious about it I also very highly reccomend his series on using ZBrush for Ideation...  it's inspiring, honestly.

RAMWolff

Leonides02 said:

MEC4D said:

That what it will do , import full figure with clothing , edit and sent the clothing obj as  morph back via GOZ to DS  and ready to render , it is going to be amazing , the dynamic clothing brushes even better 

Leonides02 said:

Holy moly! That is awesome. Could you import a posed DAZ character + clothes as seperate objects and have a powerful new dynamic cloth system?

 

Holy moly again!!!

If I'm understanding this correctly, we'll actually be able to add thickness to clothing, as well. 

YES! 

RAMWolff

Funny about a program you really want to get to know your mind opens up a bit more and things sometimes come easier than you expect.  I've had my license since 3.0 when DAZ3D and Pixologic did a sales thing here (old store) and I got it for like $250.00 and I've never had to pay for an upgrade.  Over the years I've slowly gotten to know what it can do.  I've only scratched the surface.  Cath has gone further than most with creating micro poly texture maps and all sorts of things.  Now with all these new toys God only know what she's going to create!  LOL  

duckbomb

MEC4D said:

No it don't , I loaded it as morph to DS , check render below from DS with morph

for correction morphs you need to use the inflate function , and before doing anything set the Collision volume on , the brushes doing amazing job too for corrections morphs, amazing new tool and huge time saving .  

when Collision volume is on, it getting little slower , so when working with cloth brushes just set it off .

I don't understand this... admittedly, I haven't gotten my hands on it, yet, to see first hand, but I'm a little confused.  A lot of the clothing I bring into ZBrush from DAZ is basically a plane...  Since IRay will render both sides of a surface normal, it looks like cloth, but if you add thickness aren't you adding a new surface normal to that other side?  At the very least, you are adding surface normals along the "edge", right?  How can adding thickness NOT change the vert count? 

I'm not saying you aren't correct, I just don't fully understand it.  It makes me even more anxious to give it a go... 

RAMWolff

OH, well I think that does change the poly count for sure but I've not tested it yet so I can't confirm! 

duckbomb

RAMWolff said:

OH, well I think that does change the poly count for sure but I've not tested it yet so I can't confirm! 

Gotcha, ok, me neither!  I'm going to, though, as soon as I'm able...  I'm only halfway through the broadcast, keep getting pulled away for actual work things... ugh....

marble

Just as a matter of interest, how would this new version of ZBrush run on a 4 year old Intel i7 6700 CPU? The promo videos of the cloth sim look impressively quick but I have to wonder what kind of rig they ran that demo on.

MEC4D

You can't change the thickness of the clothing if you create a morph and that is what we were talking about , you can do it if you design new clothing or you just update your old clothing for just one pose in the render .

altering the geometry will always change the vert count . I tried before making clothing with natural thickness but DS will blow it up on some point , you can't use smooth modifiers and other stuff , if you do stuff just for yourself that is ok but if not then there will be a lot of headaches to adjust fit morphs with this kind of setup , and you need to create new shaders for it as well , most artists use this stuff just for one simple render as it is hard o fix when you load another body morphs on the figure .

I prefer to use edges in Zbrush to add the thickness of clothing or use thickness only on the parts that need it or are visible , works better in DS 

remember first create plain clothing, use cloth simulation and when you are happy with it add the thickness just before export , the visual aspect will be the same as with just edges at last for the parts that are closer to the skin .Thickness function in  Zbrush is for many years, it is not new ,but I never saw cloth simulation that worked with it , so that is a plus .

 

duckbomb said:

MEC4D said:

No it don't , I loaded it as morph to DS , check render below from DS with morph

for correction morphs you need to use the inflate function , and before doing anything set the Collision volume on , the brushes doing amazing job too for corrections morphs, amazing new tool and huge time saving .  

when Collision volume is on, it getting little slower , so when working with cloth brushes just set it off .

I don't understand this... admittedly, I haven't gotten my hands on it, yet, to see first hand, but I'm a little confused.  A lot of the clothing I bring into ZBrush from DAZ is basically a plane...  Since IRay will render both sides of a surface normal, it looks like cloth, but if you add thickness aren't you adding a new surface normal to that other side?  At the very least, you are adding surface normals along the "edge", right?  How can adding thickness NOT change the vert count? 

I'm not saying you aren't correct, I just don't fully understand it.  It makes me even more anxious to give it a go... 

 

MEC4D

Richard, we where talking about creating morphs for DS clothing , nothing about thickness, just deformation using the simulation and importing it back to DS as morph  

RAMWolff said:

OH, well I think that does change the poly count for sure but I've not tested it yet so I can't confirm! 

 

MEC4D

I used it before first Zbrush version was even released , as a  beta tester but for long time it did not speak to me as there was nothing on the internet to learn from , now I do everything in Zbrush on a daily basic, the 2020 started bad but the second part of it is going to be very creative with all the new goodies. I used Poser via GoZ for my base cloth simulation in Zbrush for so long , now no more ...

RAMWolff said:

Funny about a program you really want to get to know your mind opens up a bit more and things sometimes come easier than you expect.  I've had my license since 3.0 when DAZ3D and Pixologic did a sales thing here (old store) and I got it for like $250.00 and I've never had to pay for an upgrade.  Over the years I've slowly gotten to know what it can do.  I've only scratched the surface.  Cath has gone further than most with creating micro poly texture maps and all sorts of things.  Now with all these new toys God only know what she's going to create!  LOL  

 

duckbomb

MEC4D said:

You can't change the thickness of the clothing if you create a morph and that is what we were talking about , you can do it if you design new clothing or you just update your old clothing for just one pose in the render .

altering the geometry will always change the vert count . I tried before making clothing with natural thickness but DS will blow it up on some point , you can't use smooth modifiers and other stuff , if you do stuff just for yourself that is ok but if not then there will be a lot of headaches to adjust fit morphs with this kind of setup , and you need to create new shaders for it as well , most artists use this stuff just for one simple render as it is hard o fix when you load another body morphs on the figure .

I prefer to use edges in Zbrush to add the thickness of clothing or use thickness only on the parts that need it or are visible , works better in DS 

remember first create plain clothing, use cloth simulation and when you are happy with it add the thickness just before export , the visual aspect will be the same as with just edges at last for the parts that are closer to the skin .Thickness function in  Zbrush is for many years, it is not new ,but I never saw cloth simulation that worked with it , so that is a plus .

AH ok that makes sense, I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood the origional conversation.  I'm tracking with you now... This cloth stuff is incredible...  Ironically, I LITERALLY just purchased a MD license YESTERDAY before coming here just so I could try to simulate out some morphs on some clothes instead of manually sculpting my morphs (which I usually do).  Now I come here and BAM, I can do it natively in my first true love... 

Thanks for the info, I appreciate teh clarification, sorry about the confusion!

Sevrin

What you can do sometimes, even within Daz using Mesh Grabber rotation is select the edge faces of the garment and turn them inward.  That's basically what peache does with his/her(?) garments.  It's obviously easier to do inside a proper modeling program, but it's a quick (not really) fix for the occasional garment that could benefit, like for the collar of a knitted garment like Minto's sweater that's supposed to be thick.

MEC4D

It gonna work fine , the cloth simulation use GPU , my card that is set for PhysX run on and off while using  the cloth sim and cloth brushes , so I suspect it is PhysX based simulation , so faster card will do better job

also important what  models you using , they used mostly planes and that is fast, once the model is complex things slow down as with any cloth simulation . Use simulation for simple things and then use cloth brushes without simulation for fine adjustments and details and things will be smooth

marble said:

Just as a matter of interest, how would this new version of ZBrush run on a 4 year old Intel i7 6700 CPU? The promo videos of the cloth sim look impressively quick but I have to wonder what kind of rig they ran that demo on.

 

MEC4D

No problem , yes that is amazing , I love Zbrush over everything , my fav soft, did not expected to see  the upgrades until next year ar at last until the end of October ! it made my day

duckbomb said:

MEC4D said:

You can't change the thickness of the clothing if you create a morph and that is what we were talking about , you can do it if you design new clothing or you just update your old clothing for just one pose in the render .

altering the geometry will always change the vert count . I tried before making clothing with natural thickness but DS will blow it up on some point , you can't use smooth modifiers and other stuff , if you do stuff just for yourself that is ok but if not then there will be a lot of headaches to adjust fit morphs with this kind of setup , and you need to create new shaders for it as well , most artists use this stuff just for one simple render as it is hard o fix when you load another body morphs on the figure .

I prefer to use edges in Zbrush to add the thickness of clothing or use thickness only on the parts that need it or are visible , works better in DS 

remember first create plain clothing, use cloth simulation and when you are happy with it add the thickness just before export , the visual aspect will be the same as with just edges at last for the parts that are closer to the skin .Thickness function in  Zbrush is for many years, it is not new ,but I never saw cloth simulation that worked with it , so that is a plus .

AH ok that makes sense, I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood the origional conversation.  I'm tracking with you now... This cloth stuff is incredible...  Ironically, I LITERALLY just purchased a MD license YESTERDAY before coming here just so I could try to simulate out some morphs on some clothes instead of manually sculpting my morphs (which I usually do).  Now I come here and BAM, I can do it natively in my first true love... 

Thanks for the info, I appreciate teh clarification, sorry about the confusion!

 

MEC4D

that is the problem with cloth simulations , it deflate everything  , there are 2 ways of creating clothing, one for rigging and posing and the other just for cloth simulation , that why the second one are flatter like a paper with all vert going in one direction ( for the proper simulation ) cost effective and cheap to make. I don't know why everyone talk about clothing thickness , it is not new option , it is for years in Zbrush , but not really usable in DS from the technical side , just one ride pony 

 

 

Sevrin said:

What you can do sometimes, even within Daz using Mesh Grabber rotation is select the edge faces of the garment and turn them inward.  That's basically what peache does with his/her(?) garments.  It's obviously easier to do inside a proper modeling program, but it's a quick (not really) fix for the occasional garment that could benefit, like for the collar of a knitted garment like Minto's sweater that's supposed to be thick.

 

Sevrin

MEC4D said:

that is the problem with cloth simulations , it deflate everything  , there are 2 ways of creating clothing, one for rigging and posing and the other just for cloth simulation , that why the second one are flatter like a paper with all vert going in one direction ( for the proper simulation ) cost effective and cheap to make. I don't know why everyone talk about clothing thickness , it is not new option , it is for years in Zbrush , but not really usable in DS from the technical side , just one ride pony 

 

 

Sevrin said:

What you can do sometimes, even within Daz using Mesh Grabber rotation is select the edge faces of the garment and turn them inward.  That's basically what peache does with his/her(?) garments.  It's obviously easier to do inside a proper modeling program, but it's a quick (not really) fix for the occasional garment that could benefit, like for the collar of a knitted garment like Minto's sweater that's supposed to be thick.

 

Well, you can weight-map the edges so that they don't deflate along with the rest of the garment.  This is the edge of the Coldhearted Skirt after simulation.

duckbomb

OK, I hate to be "that guy", but if I ran into it I'm sure someone else will... I  installed the new version of ZBrush, uninstalled 2020, uninstalled GoZ, restarted, and then re-installed GoZ but now every time I try to use it in DAZ I get "Unable to connect with Pixelogic Zbrush.  Check the installation" in a pop-up window.  I've cleared the GOZ cache in ZBrush, re-set the paths, and even did the force re-installation thing, but I keep getting the same error.

Does anybody know what I missed?  Maybe I shouldn't have uninstalled 2020 so fast lol...

EDIT - OK so I found a thread where it was reccommended to go into Daz Install Manager and set the path to the application... unfortunately, Zbrush 2021 is not availble in there (yet, as I assume it will be updated), but if MEC4D got it to work i assume that the bridge was updated, right?