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For me it is found at People/ Genesis 8 Female/ Developer Kit/ Genesis 8.1 Female Face Controls. (I don't use Smart Content) It will install on G8F but does not work. (I caused a crash when toying with it on G8 so one should likely avoid that.) When installed on G8.1, it (the little arrows et al) is closely linked to the rigging of the face and, when you select an on-screen arrow, the corresponding bone is selected in the rigging. Looking at the on-screen tool you will not know what transforms are locked and what ones are not – this can be easily assessed by glancing at the Parameters Tab.
I can confirm removing the folders
data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\
data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\
does restore MOST expressions and I also have Mouth Open and some of the older expressions back as well
Not an expert in shaders but it looks to me like it is also missing the Cutout Opacity channel. That for me has the potential to be a major PITA. (Diffuse Overlay too i think.)
I hadn't directly replied to you yet because, basically, you were right, and I didn't see a need, but I can answer the why some as best I understand it. But you had already mentioned the why yourself-- speed.
Another issue is that not all expressions are the same. If you remove those folders and apply the expressions you have to G8.1, it will not necessarily be the same expressions as on G8. The older expressions will still drive the new expressions controls in most cases which are not identical. In particular I've noticed the eye area being different. They could come up identical, but there's no guarantee of that.
And there is so much this :D So far the pose and expression maker reaction has been this:
We were also looking at making a converter, but there's no 1 for 1 exchange. There's no simple equivalency to be done. It also slows down loading and animation even more and that's something people have been griping about for a while.
Yes, there is no cutout because the shader is specifically designed for skin.
Diffuse Overlay is now called Makeup and there is a toggle to have the options on and off.
Is there any explanation for the Makeup toggle? anytime I have tried it I just end up with a white or extremely light face ....
I haven't had a chance to try G8.1 F yet, need to make backups before trying to update Studio to the latest version, but after following the thread I just want to say thanks to ChangelingChick for providing so many answers and so much help with this! I think DAZ did a poor job explaining things in their marketing materials, and you've been a huge help in clarifying things and pointing out additional features.
You need to put an mask in the strength image slot. If the makeup you're applying is a transparent png, then slot that in the strength slot, got to Image Editor and change the Greyscale From dropdown from Average to Alpha. Alternatively, if the makeup has an black and white opacity/alpha map, slot that in - leave on Average.
Thanks, I will try that out and see what I get
Geoshells et al
I am slower than most, so, as I work through this repeatedly trying things out, I find I am commenting on older parts of this discussion. I might also say I have always struggled a bit with geoshells and their surfaces/visibility settings. It might be early reporting this but, in what I have attempted, the renaming of surfaces makes many things made for G8F using geoshells a challenge to say the least: notwithstanding visibility settings and the ability to change UVs on the shells.
Let's say you have G8 geoshell based clothing item (undergarment) you want to use. There are to my thinking two cases. If it comes with its own geoshell creator it will not know what to do with the 'body' surface of your G8.1 figure (white 'undefined' result). If it doesn't come with its own geoshell creator and you create your own, it will still not know what to do when you go to apply the 'MATs' because of the 'body' surface. So, the solution I have come up with requires you to have G8 and G8.1 in the scene (with geoshells in this case), applying your 'garment' to the G8 figure and then copying the G8 geoshell 'torso' surface onto the G8.1 geoshell 'body' surface.
There may be much more elegant solutions. This one frankly sucks. And I am thinking many tattoo products, tan line products, vein products will be similarly limited; but I could be getting ahead of myself. The neck area might be the biggest challenge. (But it took me a day to get NGV8 to work on G8.1 so 'elegant' might be too much to ask for. . . )
To be honest, I do prefer the Iray Uber Shader to the PBR shader, it gives a much more natural skin result.
But that is only my humble opinion.
This is something that's been discussed and sent to Daz. They're looking at it, but it may end up being a need to update existing geoshell products to be compatible with 8.1. I've already updated a couple of mine and sent them to QA.
I second the thank you for being so involved and helpful on this topic!
If I understand you correctly regarding the two folders discussion, I should not mess with them, as doing so would not provide any benefits and could lead to unfavorable results.
Hmmm. Not sure how widely used it is but this would mean the new shader could not be used on the 'colour' or 'effects' layers of NGV8. Maybe you could use masks in each channel - that would be fun. I haven't checked extensively, because most grafts are not working anyways, but I recall most grafts I have for G8 use cutout opacity religiously as a way to blend their seams and/or adjust their effects.
WRT renaming the Diffuse to Makeup in the Daz PBRskin shader - more testing - but that likely means many makeups (some tan line, some skins and some tattoos//anything using the diffuse channel) will not survive a routine of applying the new shader to an existing character (without saving out the temp image(s) and reloading it(them) in the diffuse channel.) We'll see.
Maybe it's too soon and I am not clever enough. As I try to arrive at solutions to use my G8 'stuff' with G8.1, I am increasingly finding it more trouble than its worth. Perhaps that was the point: keep G8 'stuff' with G8 and G8.1 'stuff' with G8.1.
Here's a quick and dirty render to make the tattoo look more realistic using the makeup toggle, I may have gone a little nuts with the G-Blur, but you get the point!
My fear is that Daz Studio 5 will do away with Spectral Rendering altogether as a lot of users here find it too much of a hassle to use it as it's much simpler to use the default settings... But unfortunately, they're missing out on a lot of potential that this modest and extremely powerful program has to offer, I just hope Daz continues with its upward trajectory!
Well, since all my expressions do work I have no intention of upgrading if there’s a fix to remove them. I don’t do animation and I never use expressions at full value and like to create my own using small amounts of others. If the expressions were taken away, I would just never use any G8.1 content or buy any future content for it. So I think it’s a good thing that lets us use all our expressions that we have paid for..,
The tattoos can be made more realistic with a little blending in Photoshop. They need to be blended into the color layer at (guessing) 75% ish opacity...and blurred a little bit to make them look like they weren't freshly inked. Then they also need to be added to the sss map.
Removing those folders does fix the expressions for the most part but they still look odd to me. Also, Riversoft Art's look at me script seems to work now so that's a plus
There is another part to this story. If you actually use the Iray Daz PBRSkin shader with Olympia 8, you will appreciate some of the features of the new skin shader. The Uber shader for Olympia 8 uses the Diffuse Overlay channel for the eyebrows (and makeup). So these will not migrate because the shader does not have a this channel. Much later in this thread there are comments about the diffuse channel being replaced by the makeup channel. So if you have G8 with Olympia 8 loaded, you can simply apply the images from the diffuse overlay channel to the makeup channel. But wait. As Finkky has said, unlike the diffuse channel, the makeup strength channel needs a mask. So after you add the image, go to Image Editor and change the Greyscale From: value to Alpha. (There is more to Finkky's comments so check them out.) You will also notice quite a difference in overall colour. I am not good with shaders so leave it to comments of others as to why this is the case. Easy right?
Overwhelming. I guess that's why we have PAs :-) I just ended up with waxy skin.
They depend on the underlying G8 face morphs (brow etc) which don't exist in G8.1. Most of the expressions I have tried have that problem, even though they still show up under the parameters pane pose controls.
That doesn't agree with what I've observed; Although their top-level labels may be similar, other than eCtrlEyesClosedL and eCtrlEyesClosedR, all the new G8.1F expression morphs have entirely new underlying names, so old expression controllers will not be able to link with those new G8.1F expression morphs.
All the G8.0F base expression morphs (that most old controllers want to drive and which are being hidden by the placeholder files in G8.1F's data) are... well, morphs, and G8.1F still has the same vertex order, the same skeleton and (nearly?) the same base shape - if it supports G8F shaping figure morphs (even HD), then it's not obvious why expression morphs shouldn't also follow the same principle.
~~~~~
As is, though, the important question isn't really whether removing those folders restores the old G8F expression controls (it seems fairly evident that it does, but it can be left up to individual users whether they agree), but "does reactivating these morphs cause other problems?".
If Daz thinks it's better going forwards that the PAs only have to worry about giving their characters MCMs to correct for the new face controls, then that's fair enough, but there are a lot of veteran users who need their existing characters to have the same smile, or wink, or weary pout going forward. Loading existing character shapes is only part of the puzzle of maintaining continuity, and expressions are often a very key part of characterisation. My character "Jinx" absolutely relies on Open Smile Full Face HD, because she just now looks wrong with another smile, so I cannot reasonably move her onto G8.1F without that. A lot of my other existing characters are similar, forcing them to remain on G8.0F and thus not be able to benefit from a lot of products going forwards.
"..things that rely on UVs do not work: this means torso tattoos (they also end up on the head) like my 8 ShanasSoulmate sets), tan line/moisture products, body makeup/writing products, AddSomeVeins. . . ."
These products will not generally work on G8.1. They may not work at all for G8.1 skins made for G8.1 if the body/head are in any way involved. Because of the relative coincidence of the torso and body mappings between G8 and G8.1, I think there is lots of potential for faking it when trying (some) G8 tattoos or tan lines. Depending on positioning, in some cases it might be a matter of simply undoing what might automagically happen to the head. I think there is lots of potential using G8 (or G3) skins on G8.1 and trying tattoos or tan lines when you apply the Base Female UV. Without reverting to the Base Female UV there is no way to use G8 vein images or displacement maps. Summary, if you are using a G8.1 with a G8.1 skin, generally nothing from G8 involving UVs will work without trial and error and close inspection. G8.1 can use G8 UV based products provided a G8 skin and Base Female UV is used. And/or many products for G8 willl not work on G8.1 iff you are using a 8.1 skin/UV map on your G8.1 figure.
Yes and no? In my testing I can text-edit expressions for G8 to load on G8.1, but the dhdm file (that is, the HD morph data that goes along with the bone pose) will not work with G8.1 because their geometry is different. I figured there would not be a market for expressions converted to G8.1 without their HD morph components, so I never pitched it to Riversoft Art as a product.
you may need to map transfer your tattoos
Comparing G8 and G 8.1 (right) females without applying skin shaders and morphs. Looks the same. Why bother?
They do look identical. When you say no skin shaders, doesn't 8.1 load with the new PBR shader? I'm not at my computer to try it myself.
No, Genesis 8.1 loads with the original skin and shaders on the new UVs. Victoria 8.1 uses the new shader.
Ok, thank you! So the new shader is specifically for Victoria 8.1?