Poser support being run down?
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"When it comes to “most” Poser users, I expect they don’t need extremely realistic human figures and are quite satisfied with the native Poser characters (hard as that is to imagine). "
Poser user here. that's an incorrect assumption. We are not at all satisfied with the native figures, except for a couple of died in the wool posette lovers etc. Just look at all the V4 and M4 stuff at rendero and you will see what the poser users are almost all using. I don't really like the native poser figures personally. But I own V4 and M4. M4 is a really good figure, and V4 would have been except for all those magnets. Anyway these figures do quite well although of course I was really disappointed when a poser V6 version never eventuated, and daz went all genesis on us.
But there is still a lot of stuff for V4 for sale at rendero and new things keep coming all the time.
I haven't tried DSON for about 8 months. Last time I tried it I couldn't load more than a couple of figures before my scene slowed, but I expect that has improved with recent versions, and I really should try it again.
As for the original post. Yes I think daz is winding poser down. so of course not as many people shop here, and of course the vendor sales figures will be better here at daz for your genesis products.
I think the reason sickleyield had low sales figures at renderosity is probably dilution because the renderosity market place is so big, and there are lots of different V4 jeans available there. Less M4 and that is why M4 jeans sold better.
Love esther
I know what where doing wrong .where not selling $400.00 digital comics. LMAO
http://www.mydigitalcomics.com/product.aspx?id=8154d87a-d78b-4def-aa10-814f9bebacb3
Given the time it takes to learn how everything fits together, and the time it takes to create each individual piece it's far from easy to make an 'empire' out of content creation alone.
Daz built their empire because they cornered the market at the time. No one was offering the level of realism that their figures had, and the Poser figures of the era looked more like American footballers with their shoulder-pad builds and stocky faces. Even today, Daz figures continue to be the standard, whether it's the older Generation 4 figures or the newer Genesis figures which take advantage of the latest tech.
The first time I got into 3D it was using Poser, and one of the first things that I was told to do was to look at Daz's figures. Comparing them to the Poser figures was almost unreal. On one side we had a human figure, and on the other we had this cartoon caricature. Smith Micro have vastly improved the figures since those early days, but Daz 3D still maintain an incredibly high standard on their figures, and it's this quality which enticed me ultimately to make the switch to Daz Studio. I wanted Genesis, even if I had to learn a new software to do so.
I have little doubt that the future figures will continue to improve in areas we didn't even know needed to be improved. Genesis 2 surprised me when it was released, even left me a little apprehensive about the future, but after taking the plunge it's become the strongest addition to my arsenal.
So while you may be able to build your empire, you'll have to find a way to topple the existing emperor first. They didn't get to the top without being darned good at the job.
I have the same issues, I generally go into an image with a general idea of what I want and then add and delete items and characters until I get what I have visioned in my mind. Using Genesis or even Genesis 2 I can't add or delete characters and clothing as I can with V4/M4 before Poser slows and locks up on me. A better DSON interface, a Genesis fugure that works natively in Poser or Smith Micro updating Poser to work with DSON natively is in order.
I tried to change the library structure to a vertical tree but I still have to fight the completely non intuitive (To me at least) folder structure that DAZ has built into their program. In Poser I can build my folders and move things around to suit my workflow, yes it means I have to download and then install everything by hand ... but I know I can open my folder for V4 clothing and go to the shoes sub folder then open the boots folder and there are all her boots. I guess I am just expecting to much from all of this ....
I also download all content by hand so I can arrange it the way I like. To me the Daz library works better for me. It's a matter of preference really. Some like horizontal, some like vertical. With horizontal I get to see more listed instead of having to scroll down everytime, so to me I get things done faster. In terms of arranging clothing and content, I also have all my boots under a footwear folder. I just drag and drop where I want things. My point is, I see no reason why you cannot do the same here like you arranged it with your V4 folder? Unless I am missing something. I did this with my Genesis1 content, where I split it into 3 structures, male, female & unisex.
I agree and I also thank them for that reason. ;)
I also download all content by hand so I can arrange it the way I like. To me the Daz library works better for me. It's a matter of preference really. Some like horizontal, some like vertical. With horizontal I get to see more listed instead of having to scroll down everytime, so to me I get things done faster. In terms of arranging clothing and content, I also have all my boots under a footwear folder. I just drag and drop where I want things. My point is, I see no reason why you cannot do the same here like you arranged it with your V4 folder? Unless I am missing something. I did this with my Genesis1 content, where I split it into 3 structures, male, female & unisex.
Well my brother who is a DS user and has tried for years to get me to change from Poser to DS, told me that if you move the folder locations from their original spots it screws up the metadata. So you are saying that I can create and rename folders as I like and it won't screw things up? What do I do with all the other additional files that DS uses that Poser doesn't? do those install in their normal locations or do I have to have to create new folders for them as well?
Well my brother who is a DS user and has tried for years to get me to change from Poser to DS, told me that if you move the folder locations from their original spots it screws up the metadata. So you are saying that I can create and rename folders as I like and it won't screw things up? What do I do with all the other additional files that DS uses that Poser doesn't? do those install in their normal locations or do I have to have to create new folders for them as well?
As Spooky said, you can create shortcuts rather than moving the files. And if you move the content using the Content Library pane the CMS will be updated though it's nowhere near as slick as using the US tools (just remember to export user data so you don't lose the changes if you have to reset the database - Content Library pane option menu, Content DB Maintenance, check the Export User data option).
I always install my new content to a temporary folder and then put it where I want it. I've never worried about the metadata. I know where my stuff is because I put it there.
Everyone needs to find their own system of course, but I fear some people feel they "must" use the metadata, when they may be happier just customizing the folders how they want.
The idea of building a runtime out of shortcuts is an intriguing one though.
With all due respect, neither of us actually knows whether that's an incorrect assumption or not. However, Poser users who regularly shop at the Daz, Renderosity, and RDNA marketplaces must be a fraction of the actual numbers of people using the software. It would hardly be worth Smith Micro's time to support software that was used ONLY by so few people. Moreover, the content in these markets is decidedly and overwhelmingly western. It suggests to me, that while we do have quite a few Asian customers, surely they are not relying on American and European content to serve all their needs. Fact is, no one of us knows who or how many Poser users there are or what they are doing with the software. But it seems unlikely to me that vocal forum contributors are at all representative of most users, and I seriously doubt that those who shop at Daz and Rendo are representative either.
Of course, I'll grant you that I could very easily be wrong. I'm just guessing too. :)
As for using multiple figures with DSON import -- yes, it can get slow, especially if your machine isn't relatively fast. Here's how I do a multiple figure render with Genesis: (I used to do this with generation 3 and 4 figs back when my machine was slow -- though I didn't have the game dev tools to help).
-- I pose and dress the figure, making sure it's exactly how I want it.
-- I save copies of the materials (MT6) for the skin, hair, and clothes to the library.
-- I convert the figure to a prop. If it has a LOT of polys, I will spawn a prop for each piece of clothing separately by using the grouping tool in Poser Pro; I will spawn a prop from the hair; and I will spawn a prop containing only the groups of the figure that are visible from the "SubD" part of the genesis figure. (All this takes less than 2 minutes). Many characters end up just as a head and hands. :)
-- I use the game dev poly reduction tool to optimize each of these props. How much I reduce depends on where in the scene the fig will appear. Background figures can be reduced by a ton. Foreground figures by less, clearly. (You can always duplicate a prop before reducing so you can compare the effect or save several copies at different levels of resolution).
-- I export all the separate pieces as an object and import the saved obj as a single prop (making sure that I maintain materials and group names)..
-- I apply the materials I saved earlier.
Now I have a statue that took me, maybe at most 10 minutes to make. But it probably has 1/5 to 1/10 of the polys of the original figures. I can render, literally, a couple of hundred of these in a scene. Many of them can be used over and over in different scenes, too, as they are simply background people, doing background things. :)
To be sure, you cannot repose the figure if you notice a mistake in posing or want to change something. But at some point before your final render, you have to choose to stop changing poses anyway. And for me, if I am putting a lot of characters into one scene, it is a lot easier to move props around (and to find them in the hierarchy panel) than it is to deal with fully dressed poseable figures that tend to accidentally get body parts translated while I'm setting up the scene.
Obviously different people have different workflows, but this one is surprisingly efficient for the way I like to work.
(I also use Predatron's low poly figures and dress them in dynamic clothing. They are incredibly versatile. I have them all and I wish he would make more of them -- Poser compatible of course! ).
Given the time it takes to learn how everything fits together, and the time it takes to create each individual piece it's far from easy to make an 'empire' out of content creation alone.
Daz built their empire because they cornered the market at the time. No one was offering the level of realism that their figures had, and the Poser figures of the era looked more like American footballers with their shoulder-pad builds and stocky faces. Even today, Daz figures continue to be the standard, whether it's the older Generation 4 figures or the newer Genesis figures which take advantage of the latest tech.
The first time I got into 3D it was using Poser, and one of the first things that I was told to do was to look at Daz's figures. Comparing them to the Poser figures was almost unreal. On one side we had a human figure, and on the other we had this cartoon caricature. Smith Micro have vastly improved the figures since those early days, but Daz 3D still maintain an incredibly high standard on their figures, and it's this quality which enticed me ultimately to make the switch to Daz Studio. I wanted Genesis, even if I had to learn a new software to do so.
I have little doubt that the future figures will continue to improve in areas we didn't even know needed to be improved. Genesis 2 surprised me when it was released, even left me a little apprehensive about the future, but after taking the plunge it's become the strongest addition to my arsenal.
So while you may be able to build your empire, you'll have to find a way to topple the existing emperor first. They didn't get to the top without being darned good at the job.
The CGI universe is big enough for a lot of empires.
DreamWorks didn't need to topple Pixar to have there own empire.
& I think one would be a lot better off making stuff for DAZ Characters then trying to compete against them in DAZ Studio.
Poser well I might make game characters.
Actually I always wonder why DAZ Didn't make characters for all the app's Max ,C4D, Lightwave,and all and Blender.
If I sold characters it would be to main app's ,Max and all.
The CGI universe is big enough for a lot of empires.
DreamWorks didn't need to topple Pixar to have there own empire.
& I think one would be a lot better off making stuff for DAZ Characters then trying to compete against them in DAZ Studio.
Poser well I might make game characters.
Actually I always wonder why DAZ Didn't make characters for all the app's Max ,C4D, Lightwave,and all and Blender.
If I sold characters it would be to main app's ,Max and all.
Yes. I think it would make much more sense for Poser to reach out in a completely different direction. Work on making DSON importation as easy as possible and let Daz and others take care of the main super realistic high poly figure creation. Spend the figure creation energy making optimized lo and med res figs that are game compatible and optimized for animation -- because I think animation is where Poser *could* potentially do very well, if they just emphasized it and improved the tools.
But that's just me. I've just been spending a lot of time with lo poly figures, and it has opened my eyes quite wide as to how useful they are even in still renders. Unless I'm doing a closeup portrait, Loretta LoRez is as useful as Victoria 4 for most of my scenes, and with poly smoothing you'd never notice she was as low resolution as she is. To be sure, she has a limited wardrobe, but it doesn't take long to scale a Vicky dynamic outfit for her -- and the simulations are lightning fast. :)
Well my brother who is a DS user and has tried for years to get me to change from Poser to DS, told me that if you move the folder locations from their original spots it screws up the metadata. So you are saying that I can create and rename folders as I like and it won't screw things up? What do I do with all the other additional files that DS uses that Poser doesn't? do those install in their normal locations or do I have to have to create new folders for them as well?
As Spooky said, you can create shortcuts rather than moving the files. And if you move the content using the Content Library pane the CMS will be updated though it's nowhere near as slick as using the US tools (just remember to export user data so you don't lose the changes if you have to reset the database - Content Library pane option menu, Content DB Maintenance, check the Export User data option).
That sounds like a real PITA to create a runtime folder. With Poser I can just go in and create a folder name it what I want and populate it with the appropriate items. What if I don't want to use DIM? I have heard enough horror stories about items downloading to strange locations or not where you want them to ... beside call me a control freak or whatever but I rather have complete control over my runtime. Creating shortcuts or temporary folders sounds like a recipe for losing whole runtimes do to a crash or inadvertent deletion. My biggest question is if I go in and rearrange the folders to fit my style and an update comes out does it reset all my work or will it stay as I have set it up?
Total aside but: do you have the ability to manage that, adwords campaign wise and such?
I do SEO / Analytics / Adwords and if you manage the terms that trigger you you can boost your profits a LOT, not so much by making yourself show up MORE, but mostly by removing bad hits. I've never done ADSense, but if its like Analytics and Adwords, you want to be on top of boosting your conversion rate - working it so the ads they put with you are more and more related to your content so users are much more likely to click them.
As the person who ran those ads appearing on your page - I could tailor it to be extremely precise. In essence my job generates profits for both you and I when I do this. But I don't know if you have the same ability in what ads your page 'accepts'.
I recommend exploring what tools they give you, if any, in as much detail as you can stand - because you might be able to drive that $1/day up quite a bit if they give you tools to customize what kinds of ads show up based on what sorts of terms your viewers searched on recently and to get to you.
If I want a good looking render I go straight to Carrara. I used to go to Vue or Bryce but Vue it too expensive right now and Bryce has gone PC-Only (you cannot downgrade OSX anymore to the version that Bryce supports unless you machine formerly had that version).
The only way I can get good renders out Daz is with Light Dome Pro or some of the 'Advanced' lights from Age of Armor.
Keep an eye out for sales of Daz Originals - Carrara very often hits the $65 point (but this only shows once you put it in the cart). At that point - it is very much worth picking up.
Of course if you're a PC person, you can grab up Bryce for even less and see some of this in there - Bryce, Vue, and Carrara all have amazingly better rendering options that Daz Studio or Poser because they have built in atmosphere rendering.
- I hope that doest read like an app-war post violating any rules. Its not meant to be. Bryce, Vue, and Carrara are meant for a different purpose than Daz Studio and Poser. In my opinion a "complete" toolset includes one application from each category.
I'm not sure why that's a problem. I use Advanced lights in every render and have every since the first ones came out. I've never been shy about this.
As Spooky said, you can create shortcuts rather than moving the files. And if you move the content using the Content Library pane the CMS will be updated though it's nowhere near as slick as using the US tools (just remember to export user data so you don't lose the changes if you have to reset the database - Content Library pane option menu, Content DB Maintenance, check the Export User data option).
That sounds like a real PITA to create a runtime folder. With Poser I can just go in and create a folder name it what I want and populate it with the appropriate items. What if I don't want to use DIM? I have heard enough horror stories about items downloading to strange locations or not where you want them to ... beside call me a control freak or whatever but I rather have complete control over my runtime. Creating shortcuts or temporary folders sounds like a recipe for losing whole runtimes do to a crash or inadvertent deletion. My biggest question is if I go in and rearrange the folders to fit my style and an update comes out does it reset all my work or will it stay as I have set it up?
I might have missed someone mentioning it, but it's extremely easy to create your own folders using categories directly within DAZ Studio. I have categories for all sorts of things, divided how I like them. For example, I have a main category for Genesis, within that I have sub-categories for Character, Clothing, Poses, Accessories. Under Clothing, I have the separate outfits I have bought and under each outfit I have the textures for it, no matter where those textures may have come from. Some of my main categories include Props, Sets, Shaders and Presets, Real Animals, Fantasy Animals, Dragons, all further sub-categorized to suit my tastes. I rarely bother with Smart Content, I personally find it messy to look at.
I use DIM to download and keep a original runtime for them to download into, categorizing creates links within the program. I keep original runtimes for DAZ content, one for Rendo, one for RuntimeDNA and so forth and make my categories from them.
As Spooky said, you can create shortcuts rather than moving the files. And if you move the content using the Content Library pane the CMS will be updated though it's nowhere near as slick as using the US tools (just remember to export user data so you don't lose the changes if you have to reset the database - Content Library pane option menu, Content DB Maintenance, check the Export User data option).
That sounds like a real PITA to create a runtime folder. With Poser I can just go in and create a folder name it what I want and populate it with the appropriate items. What if I don't want to use DIM? I have heard enough horror stories about items downloading to strange locations or not where you want them to ... beside call me a control freak or whatever but I rather have complete control over my runtime. Creating shortcuts or temporary folders sounds like a recipe for losing whole runtimes do to a crash or inadvertent deletion. My biggest question is if I go in and rearrange the folders to fit my style and an update comes out does it reset all my work or will it stay as I have set it up?
I might have missed someone mentioning it, but it's extremely easy to create your own folders using categories directly within DAZ Studio. I have categories for all sorts of things, divided how I like them. For example, I have a main category for Genesis, within that I have sub-categories for Character, Clothing, Poses, Accessories. Under Clothing, I have the separate outfits I have bought and under each outfit I have the textures for it, no matter where those textures may have come from. Some of my main categories include Props, Sets, Shaders and Presets, Real Animals, Fantasy Animals, Dragons, all further sub-categorized to suit my tastes. I rarely bother with Smart Content, I personally find it messy to look at.
I use DIM to download and keep a original runtime for them to download into, categorizing creates links within the program. I keep original runtimes for DAZ content, one for Rendo, one for RuntimeDNA and so forth and make my categories from them.
But this still requires the creating of a separate runtime to do what I want. With Poser I work right from the main runtime and have the Poser items in folders just like I have all of my purchased items. So when I do a back up every month I only have to backup one runtime instead of two. It just seems like a huge pain just to be able to set my runtime up to suit me instead of the program.
I'm not sure why that's a problem. I use Advanced lights in every render and have every since the first ones came out. I've never been shy about this.It's not.
I was just offering it up in case the person I was responding to had not tried those things.
The only reason I have separate runtimes is to keep my content from separate stores...separate. But that is a personal choice. Plus admittedly, the DAZ Studio content does generally go in a separate runtime from Poser content. Categorizing does not create a new runtime, it just links whatever you have however you want it. Your backup would still only be the runtime.
I was just offering it up in case the person I was responding to had not tried those things.
Of course, sorry. I understand now.
Sorry - I have not read the whole thread but just a comment on the runtimes. I also install manually (although, just lately, I've started to use DIM to download content). But I have to be careful - it can be confusing. Firstly, on a Mac the merge folders doesn't work like it does on Windows so it is easy to blow away content in a single click. It was much better with the old DAZ installers which took care of that issue for me.
I arrange my runtime as I wish. There are two things to bear in mind:
1. DAZ specific stuff goes in the DAZ Studio Format section outside of the runtime. Putting it in the runtime just hides it from view.
2. In the runtime, geometries and textures must be placed in the designated folders. Poses, Figures (Characters), Mats, and Props can generally be arranged as you please.
Realism doesn't always mean the newest figures have to be used. I think it comes down to users' skill and knowing the software. Good lighting and knowing how to tweak materials and what you have, in the end, make the difference on really, really great renders. I've seen some pictures done with Daz Generation 3 and before that blow away most of what I've seen done with Genesis when it comes to "realism". In fact, a lot of Genesis renders I've seen don't have a high quality 'realisim' to me (whether or not they were done with Daz Studio or DSON and Poser). I came across a picture on the net the other day, I swore it was a photo at first, but the caption said it was a Michael 3 Poser render. I thought I bookmarked it, but can't find it. But, it was really stunning.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those gurus. I spend most of my time working with toons and critters In Poser, so realism isn't my main priority for my own personal renders. My point just is: you don't have to have the latest figures to turn out really outstanding renders in Poser if you know how to use your content and software effectively. I've even seen some really nice renders of the "Poser Family" people. Not that I have any bookmarked anymore (hard drive failure).
As Spooky said, you can create shortcuts rather than moving the files. And if you move the content using the Content Library pane the CMS will be updated though it's nowhere near as slick as using the US tools (just remember to export user data so you don't lose the changes if you have to reset the database - Content Library pane option menu, Content DB Maintenance, check the Export User data option).
That sounds like a real PITA to create a runtime folder. With Poser I can just go in and create a folder name it what I want and populate it with the appropriate items. What if I don't want to use DIM? I have heard enough horror stories about items downloading to strange locations or not where you want them to ... beside call me a control freak or whatever but I rather have complete control over my runtime. Creating shortcuts or temporary folders sounds like a recipe for losing whole runtimes do to a crash or inadvertent deletion. My biggest question is if I go in and rearrange the folders to fit my style and an update comes out does it reset all my work or will it stay as I have set it up?
Creating custom categories you don't need move folders and you can organize all what you want. It's like shortcuts, but you can save your categories information in a small size file, easy to backup. You can combine several folders or particular items, separate items from a product, repeat the same item in differents categories, and get poser files and daz files in the same folder category. I'm only use shortcuts for textures like jpg, because content library doesn't display it. The advantage with shortcuts is they are more comfortable to create if you have a lot of stuff and folders, you can create several shortcut with one right-click. On the other hand, only a unique category folder can be create by time.
So if I understand this right, basically no matter what I do I will end up with multiple runtimes? I installed all of of my content into one runtime in Poser to keep from having to jump back and forth between them ... Please don't take this as bashing DS but this fighting multiple runtimes that are needed to use both Poser and DS items is not something that I am really not wanting to fight in DS. Is there no way to use just a single runtime?
So if I understand this right, basically no matter what I do I will end up with multiple runtimes? I installed all of of my content into one runtime in Poser to keep from having to jump back and forth between them ... Please don't take this as bashing DS but this fighting multiple runtimes that are needed to use both Poser and DS items is not something that I am really not wanting to fight in DS. Is there no way to use just a single runtime?
DS creates two content directories (fro each format) by default - the \DAZ 3D\Studio\My Library folder in the user's Documents folder and the My DAZ 3D Library folder in the Shared documents folder. The second is for DIM installations, which should be kept separate from others to avoid the potential for confusion if a file is added by a non-DIM installer and by DIM (if you uninstalled the DIM file it would then remove the file, possibly breaking some other content). If you don't use DIM to install then you can simply remove the My DAZ 3D Library if you wish and stick to the old default, or replace it with another folder of your choice.
Metadata is only needed for smart content and to display type labels. If these two things are not interested you don't need to worry for metadata.
Makes perfect sense to me. most users in the poser/DS community do not have access to the big apps like max and maya, most are not students and can score access to it because they are students.
Quality control, since DAZ has their own rendering software, makes sense for them to support that software and making content that works natively in other, higher end apps would defeat that cause and they would have less control since each app imports things differently, mainly rigging.
If genesis2 could be exported from DS with full rigging and imported with full rigging and all features into Max, Maya, Modo, Lightwave, C4D, etc, it would be a users dream, but a content creators/DAZ nightmare IMO. I already see DAZ content all over the web, but luckily it is usually in .obj format
There are already quite a few stores that sell mesh for the other apps, I like that DAZ is specialized.
As to runtime organization, I thought it was the case that you could rename and move any folder or file NOT in the data directory for DS or NOT outside the libraries in Poser. Am I wrong? (I know Poser, but not so sure about DS).
I've been installing manually forever, and will continue to do it because with 400 gigs in my runtimes, they need to be organized well on my HDD, not just within the software. It really doesn't take long once you have a system in place and saves a lot of headaches. My DS content is in the same directory as my Poser runtimes in a folder appropriately called "Content". This means that I can just drag the entire content folder from a Daz zip into the directory and it's done, unless I want to rename or reorganize something. It couldn't be easier, and both Poser and DS seem quite happy with this setup.
As for using light sets in Studio, I have tried that, but I still cannot get a render that looks like what I can get with SSS and IDL in Poser. And I don't like having to be dependent on buying people's light sets. I need to be able to create lights that match the custom environment I'm working in. I understand how to do that in Poser, but DS is still a mystery to me. I cannot figure out something simple like how to get inverse square attenuation on point lights, for example.
I'd use Vue, but I am much, much too impatient for such long renders, and getting all the plugins necessary, it ends up being quite expensive. I have Bryce. I've used it once. Let's leave it at that. :) Carrara sounds like it's definitely worth a try, however. :)
The only special folders in DS are Data, Runtime, and Readme's. Any other folders can be reorganized however you like.
Any DS files in .duf/.ds/.dsa/.dsb/.dse format can be put under Runtime IF there is a Poser-format file with the same name. DS will use the DS-format file instead of the Poser-format file in that case. This doesn't work for .daz files, but there's a trick for doing that also.