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DAZ Studio Pro BETA [Project Iradium] - version 4.8.0.4!

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  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited December 1969

    Ivy said:
    well daz 4.8 installed but the scenebuildr still failed..
    do I need it or can i still use 4.8 with otu it?

    never mind I installed everything in teh DIMM to my sand box and then installed everything manually from my sand box
    Now, everything is in working order now

  • KatherineKatherine Posts: 330
    edited March 2015

    For those looking for the documentation:

    Nvidia Iray:

    Nvidia Iray Documentation

    Iray Uber Shader:

    Iray Uber Shader Documentation

    These documents are fluid and will change over the course of the beta to add/clarify more information. :)

    Updated links to post correct location. :)

    Kat

    Post edited by Katherine on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited March 2015

    DAZ_KatBriggs said:
    For those looking for the documentation:

    Nvidia Iray:

    Nvidia Iray Documentation

    Iray Uber Shader:

    Iray Uber Shader Documentation

    These documents are fluid and will change over the course of the beta to add/clarify more information. :)

    Kat

    I'm not allowed to view the documentation.

    Post edited by rbtwhiz on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited March 2015

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    larsmidnatt said:
    Sorry if this was already mentioned, but is there a way to see how much VRam is needed for the current scene(rendering with Iray)? I tend to optimize my scenes when they are eating up too much Vram and I would like to know if there is a way to get this information. Not without loading the scene into Vram and trying to render, according to NVIDIA.

    Cuda cores only matter if they are being used, and typically if everything does not fit into Vram it won't use GPU. I'd only want to use this for the GPU benefits...so the Vram issue is very important to me.

    I don't need 4GB of Vram with Octane because I know when to optimize my scene to fit in my allotted space. You can use Texture Atlas to help reduce texture sizes for background objects when needed...etc etc. So the one size fits all statement about 4gb of Vram isn't going to really work. I'm sure lots of people will easily fill up 4gb of vram and force the renderer into cpu mode...

    The 4GB of ram was not pulled out of thin air, it was the point where most scenes render on the Card's VRAM, and doesn't cause too many conflicts with the OpenGL/drawing requirements of the viewport. Yes, you are going to run into scenes that will not fit into 4GB, but 4 people, with clothes and hair in an environment fit into 4GB with most scenes. 2GB will generally hold one person, a simple environment, and hair without exceeding the card.

    Using the Iray viewport will generally run into conflicts with other things your OS is doing and crash the Video card driver if you only have 2GB of RAM and appears to be quite stable, in most circumstances with 4GB. This is not to say you can't get by with 2GB of Video Ram, if you are careful, or that you can't crash 4GB of RAM if you try, or if you build big scenes.

    We chose to recommend 4GB for general stability and ease of use.

    Hmm, bearing this in mind, this doesn't sound like it'll be good for my 2GB card. To my mind, the IRay engine would be best off as an optional plug-in like Luxus is then we're not stuck with something taking up hard drive space when we're unlikely to use it. Either that or have 4.8 Standard without it and 4.8 Pro with that feature included. That way there's a version that everyone will be happy with.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:

    Hmm, bearing this in mind, this doesn't sound like it'll be good for my 2GB card. To my mind, the IRay engine would be best off as an optional plug-in like Luxus is then we're not stuck with something taking up hard drive space when we're unlikely to use it. Either that or have 4.8 Standard and 4.8 Pro with that feature included. That way there's a version that everyone will be happy with.

    CHEERS!

    Thing is I know from years of practice that you can get great stuff from just 2 GB of Vram...its all about texture sizes..Why use 4K textures for background items that are 100 feet in the distance? Etc Etc. IF they showed us how much Vram the scene needed you could take the steps to make sure it fits in 2gb of ram fine. Assuming its Nvidia anyway...

  • KatherineKatherine Posts: 330
    edited March 2015

    larsmidnatt said:
    DAZ_KatBriggs said:
    For those looking for the documentation:

    Nvidia Iray:

    Nvidia Iray Documentation

    Iray Uber Shader:

    Iray Uber Shader Documentation

    These documents are fluid and will change over the course of the beta to add/clarify more information. :)

    Kat

    I'm not allowed to view the documentation.

    Fixed!! Try again. :) Sorry about that.

    Kat

    Post edited by Katherine on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    larsmidnatt said:
    Rogerbee said:

    Hmm, bearing this in mind, this doesn't sound like it'll be good for my 2GB card. To my mind, the IRay engine would be best off as an optional plug-in like Luxus is then we're not stuck with something taking up hard drive space when we're unlikely to use it. Either that or have 4.8 Standard and 4.8 Pro with that feature included. That way there's a version that everyone will be happy with.

    CHEERS!

    Thing is I know from years of practice that you can get great stuff from just 2 GB of Vram...its all about texture sizes..Why use 4K textures for background items that are 100 feet in the distance? Etc Etc. IF they showed us how much Vram the scene needed you could take the steps to make sure it fits in 2gb of ram fine. Assuming its Nvidia anyway...

    Yeah, I get that and that was why I went for the card I did. 'Assuming its Nvidia anyway.' is what Daz seem to have done. This is why I think there should be Standard and Pro versions so that those that can do, and those that don't can as well. Before, when I was researching graphics cards, the main one that people were having issues with was Nvidia, so I opted for AMD as I hadn't read of many problems.

    CHEERS!

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    larsmidnatt said:
    Sorry if this was already mentioned, but is there a way to see how much VRam is needed for the current scene(rendering with Iray)? I tend to optimize my scenes when they are eating up too much Vram and I would like to know if there is a way to get this information. Not without loading the scene into Vram and trying to render, according to NVIDIA.

    Cuda cores only matter if they are being used, and typically if everything does not fit into Vram it won't use GPU. I'd only want to use this for the GPU benefits...so the Vram issue is very important to me.

    I don't need 4GB of Vram with Octane because I know when to optimize my scene to fit in my allotted space. You can use Texture Atlas to help reduce texture sizes for background objects when needed...etc etc. So the one size fits all statement about 4gb of Vram isn't going to really work. I'm sure lots of people will easily fill up 4gb of vram and force the renderer into cpu mode...

    The 4GB of ram was not pulled out of thin air, it was the point where most scenes render on the Card's VRAM, and doesn't cause too many conflicts with the OpenGL/drawing requirements of the viewport. Yes, you are going to run into scenes that will not fit into 4GB, but 4 people, with clothes and hair in an environment fit into 4GB with most scenes. 2GB will generally hold one person, a simple environment, and hair without exceeding the card.

    Using the Iray viewport will generally run into conflicts with other things your OS is doing and crash the Video card driver if you only have 2GB of RAM and appears to be quite stable, in most circumstances with 4GB. This is not to say you can't get by with 2GB of Video Ram, if you are careful, or that you can't crash 4GB of RAM if you try, or if you build big scenes.

    We chose to recommend 4GB for general stability and ease of use.

    Hmm, bearing this in mind, this doesn't sound like it'll be good for my 2GB card. To my mind, the IRay engine would be best off as an optional plug-in like Luxus is then we're not stuck with something taking up hard drive space when we're unlikely to use it. Either that or have 4.8 Standard without it and 4.8 Pro with that feature included. That way there's a version that everyone will be happy with.

    CHEERS!You just said you have an AMD card, so your card won't get used anyway.

    A New GT 740 with 4GB of RAM is around $100.

    And, on average, as long as you light your scenes, using just CPU, the render times are equivalent between 3Delight and Iray. Using just CPU for rendering gets you the same results as using 4 K6000 (12GB) Quadro cards, you just get the results faster with the cards.

  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 348
    edited December 1969

    Great Work DAZ3D,

    A bold step to incorporate such a Renderer into your software... and for free...Good lord.!!!!!!

    I do echo larsmidnatt's Call for some kind of monitor to measure and display how much Vram a scene is using. anyone who has done any amount of GPU based rending will tell you this is a Vital Tool.

    Cheers,

    S.K.

  • ToyenToyen Posts: 1,906
    edited December 1969

    Here´s another portrait I rendered. I tried adding the new spot light to the left but it would not render so the light coming from the left is being emitted from the plane with the emission shader.

    What did I do wrong? : )

    I increased the render quality to 3.

    Total render time: 1hour, 42 minutes.

    hatsuiray1hr42min.png
    700 x 906 - 740K
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,344
    edited December 1969

    larsmidnatt said:
    If you open some stone mason scenes

    Is that the voice of experience? Stonemason works in 3DS, and is a very efficient modeller, so I would have expected his stuff to work with Iray (but with only 1GB of VRAM I can't test).

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    swordkensia said:
    Great Work DAZ3D,

    A bold step to incorporate such a Renderer into your software... and for free...Good lord.!!!!!!

    I do echo larsmidnatt's Call for some kind of monitor to measure and display how much Vram a scene is using. anyone who has done any amount of GPU based rending will tell you this is a Vital Tool.

    Cheers,

    S.K.

    GPU-Z is what we have been using to monitor GPU usage. (Free), though there are other similar tools (EVGA has a really nice one as well.).
  • XoechZXoechZ Posts: 1,102
    edited December 1969

    Ok, so now there is Iray for the Nvidia users. Next, of course, we need a render engine for all the ATI users, supporting OpenCL and Mantle :-)

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    Ok, so now there is Iray for the Nvidia users. Next, of course, we need a render engine for all the ATI users, supporting OpenCL and Mantle :-)
    It isn't just for NVIDIA users.
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited March 2015

    Richard Haseltine said:
    larsmidnatt said:
    If you open some stone mason scenes

    Is that the voice of experience? Stonemason works in 3DS, and is a very efficient modeller, so I would have expected his stuff to work with Iray (but with only 1GB of VRAM I can't test).

    it's all about texture sizes. one good example is the forest. I am not at my real workstation at the moment but you will find it eats up a ton of Vram. this does not have any bearing on the quality of Stonemasons work, it just means there are tons of textures that are high resolution.

    Of course even though by default it eats up a ton of Vram, you can reduce the overal utilization by reducing texture sizes (texture atlas) or removing things like bump maps that are not really needed... Things of this nature. I could actually get the forest to fit on a 1 gb vram if I wanted to! The meshes themselves dont' eat up most of the memory, it is the textures.

    GPU-Z is what we have been using to monitor GPU usage. (Free), though there are other similar tools (EVGA has a really nice one as well.).
    OK well that explains how you all worked, thanks for that nugget. I would suggest you build one into the the software. I would show how much is eaten up by the scene vs how much is needed to run the display (when one card is doing both).

    I can see GPU usage in third party tools but I find the built in solutions are more accurate and can separate the rendered scene away from display usage. Also less software is better :) So just add it to the program. Thanks.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • XoechZXoechZ Posts: 1,102
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    XoechZ said:
    Ok, so now there is Iray for the Nvidia users. Next, of course, we need a render engine for all the ATI users, supporting OpenCL and Mantle :-)
    It isn't just for NVIDIA users.

    Sure. You can use it without a Nvidia card and use your CPU instead. But for the full benefit and speed of the engine, a powerful Nvidia card is recommended. So lets simply say, Iray is optimised for Nvidia cards.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,755
    edited March 2015

    DAZ_KatBriggs said:
    larsmidnatt said:
    DAZ_KatBriggs said:
    For those looking for the documentation:

    Nvidia Iray:

    Nvidia Iray Documentation

    Iray Uber Shader:

    Iray Uber Shader Documentation

    These documents are fluid and will change over the course of the beta to add/clarify more information. :)

    Kat

    I'm not allowed to view the documentation.

    Fixed!! Try again. :) Sorry about that.

    KatHmmmm... Not fixed for me. Here is just one example of a page I cannot access.

    Permission_Denied.PNG
    1092 x 334 - 33K
    Post edited by barbult on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    You just said you have an AMD card, so your card won't get used anyway.

    A New GT 740 with 4GB of RAM is around $100.

    And, on average, as long as you light your scenes, using just CPU, the render times are equivalent between 3Delight and Iray. Using just CPU for rendering gets you the same results as using 4 K6000 (12GB) Quadro cards, you just get the results faster with the cards.

    That's $100 I don't really have. I do have a six core CPU and 16GB of RAM though, so, when this gets to a full version I'll give it a whirl and see how things go from there. If I have a machine left after a test render then I might consider reusing it, we shall see. For the kind of portrait renders I tend to do it might do well, but for full scenes with buildings and the like I'll more than likely use 3Delight with LDP-R or somesuch.

    Thanks for your time

    CHEERS!

  • SylvanSylvan Posts: 2,718
    edited December 1969

    Still having the same problem here: lots of tabs aren't showing for me in 4.8
    Downloading it now on another pc to see if the tabs will show up there...

  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 348
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    swordkensia said:
    Great Work DAZ3D,

    A bold step to incorporate such a Renderer into your software... and for free...Good lord.!!!!!!

    I do echo larsmidnatt's Call for some kind of monitor to measure and display how much Vram a scene is using. anyone who has done any amount of GPU based rending will tell you this is a Vital Tool.

    Cheers,

    S.K.

    GPU-Z is what we have been using to monitor GPU usage. (Free), though there are other similar tools (EVGA has a really nice one as well.).

    Good Tip...I have both..

    As I am running a TitanZ and a Titan Black on this system I like to keep an eye on my GPU Temps... forgot about the used memory section.!!!!.

    Cheers,

    S.K.

  • legarclegarc Posts: 45
    edited December 1969

    First render in iRay! Bree skin on G2 female, random piece of furniture, sky clouds HDR, single spot light aimed at her face, not much spread that's why feet and hands are dark. Face looking realistic. Still not sure how to change her skin specularity. 60s render one GPU.

    testImage.png
    800 x 640 - 469K
  • rbtwhizrbtwhiz Posts: 2,285
    edited December 1969

    barbult said:
    Hmmmm... Not fixed for me. Here is just one example of a page I cannot access.

    Fixed.

    -Rob

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited March 2015

    User812 said:
    First render in iRay! Bree skin on G2 female, random piece of furniture, sky clouds HDR, single spot light aimed at her face, not much spread that's why feet and hands are dark. Face looking realistic. Still not sure how to change her skin specularity. 60s render one GPU.

    Looks good,

    Certainly something to look into, but, I think the vendors would be happy doing something for just the one engine without having to worry about what others will do to to it.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • rickfoxxx74331700rickfoxxx74331700 Posts: 186
    edited December 1969

    Is it possible to do HD Morphs on this new release?

  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 348
    edited December 1969

    Does Iray have a selection of Camera/Film response curves.??

    cheers,

    S.K.

  • MacSaversMacSavers Posts: 324
    edited March 2015

    Well, I have a MacBook Pro with a nVidia 650m that does support CUDA, but the Iray option isn't showing for me. I only have a 512mb vram version, so that might have something to do with it.

    So, it's back to 3Delight for me, but the 4.8 beta has completely broken AoA Advanced Ambient Light. Every item in the scene now renders completely black. I remove the light from the scene and it renders. I can't even turn it off and leave it in the scene. It has to be completely removed from the scene to fix the render.

    So, no Iray and 3Delight is broken for me as I live on AoA's Advanced Ambient Light, so the beta is a complete bust for me.

    P.S. I just tried using !UberEnvirontment2 area lights and while it's not black on everything in the scene, it's splotchy as all get out. Completely unusable.

    Post edited by MacSavers on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    rickfoxxx7 said:
    Is it possible to do HD Morphs on this new release?

    that would be epic...but I don't think so.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,344
    edited December 1969

    larsmidnatt said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    larsmidnatt said:
    If you open some stone mason scenes

    Is that the voice of experience? Stonemason works in 3DS, and is a very efficient modeller, so I would have expected his stuff to work with Iray (but with only 1GB of VRAM I can't test).

    it's all about texture sizes. one good example is the forest. I am not at my real workstation at the moment but you will find it eats up a ton of Vram. this does not have any bearing on the quality of Stonemasons work, it just means there are tons of textures that are high resolution.

    Well, I was specifically asking about Stonemason stuff as I know he is generally efficient (good at low system requirements). I just tried Streets of Asia 3, in splendid isolation, and it fitted into the VRAM on my 1GB card so I would expect it to be fairly easy to use on a larger card. Environments often make use of tricks like tiling and repeating elements, I would generally expect clothes and characters to be the real RAM killers (though I haven't dared to try the forest scene from anyone).

  • kqbjnp66vk@snkmail.comkqbjnp66vk@snkmail.com Posts: 24
    edited December 1969

    Is there any advantage to having an nVidia card with full double precision throughput or are most/all of the calculations single precision? In other words, would an nVidia Titan card outrun a 780ti or would they be about equal?

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    MacSavers said:
    Well, I have a MacBook Pro with a nVidia 650m that does support CUDA, but the Iray option isn't showing for me. I only have a 512mb vram version, so that might have something to do with it.

    So, it's back to 3Delight for me, but the 4.8 beta has completely broken AoA Advanced Ambient Light. Every item in the scene now renders completely black. I remove the light from the scene and it renders. I can't even turn it off and leave it in the scene. It has to be completely removed from the scene to fix the render.

    So, no Iray and 3Delight is broken for me as I live on AoA's Advanced Ambient Light, so the beta is a complete bust for me.

    P.S. I just tried using !UberEnvirontment2 area lights and while it's not black on everything in the scene, it's splotchy as all get out. Completely unusable.

    Ouch!

    This is why I suggested that there was a Standard and a Pro release so that those that can use everything and those that can't get a version they can fully use.

    CHEERS!

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