Male Clothing Content Dead?

xyer0

Mada said:

@xyero That's actually a good example of some of the issues you run into, especially with photogrammetry models.

First you have the time spent on taking the photos and extracting a mesh from the point cloud. That will give you a mesh that's basically one solid surface made up of triangles... no matzones or loop flow for bending/animation.

For something like the pants and boots you can get away with using the auto mesh because the bends are not extreme. The jacket though was a major problem. Because of the long thin triangles and deep folds around the arms, it was not possible to smooth the weightmap, it puckered and made sharp points. That meant I had to retopo the jacket by hand, making sure that I follow the outflines exactly so that I can transfer the textures by baking them from a high res mesh to a low res mesh.

Buttons and zips were part of the image so I ended up rebuilding those to look more believable. Some details like the laces on the side of the jacket was all one clump and I couldn't make it work so ended up rebuilding it completely, which meant doing textures to match the jacket. Combine the original price for the photogrammetry outfit + the time spent redoing the mesh as well as rigging and its quite a bit more expensive than just starting an outfit from scratch. Some outfits will work better than others and might not need a redo, but the more complicated outfits will very likely need major reworking. So its definitely a case of doing research before picking an outfit.

The other disadvantage of a photogrammetry model is its very hard to make more than one texture for it because its so dependent on the image for details. You don't have zones for buttons or belts etc - its all one mesh.

Thanks for the blow by blow on the behind-the-scenes of conversions. Now I see that there is little to none of the thrill of creation---only problem solving. I wondered why Road Rash looked so detailed, when so much photogrammetry stuff is a blob. You did it.

kyoto kid

Mada said:

There's several reasons I prefer not to convert... one is I hopefully improved from the time I made older generation outfits, and looking back at the mesh I see too many things I want to fix because I can do it better now and that can take you into a complete remake if you're not careful. Second - customers who bought the first one expect a discount on the 2nd version, which is fair - but makes the 2nd one less profitable. Third - a lot of users will just use autofit instead because they don't want to spend the money and autofit gets them close enough to what they want so the market is smaller again.

 

...I find autofititing older (particularly Gen4) clothing to say, G3 doesn't always produce the best results as the mesh will deform in different areas depending on the style, which affects the texture map.  For example I still like using JeanZ for V4 for it's versatility but I notice after runing autofit with G3F, the crotch area has some distortion and the middle of the butt area stretches out of shape causing the texture map to look pretty bad (so no "from behind" poses or angles). Meanwhile on some skirts like on the Anabelle Outfit teh mniddle part of the mesh stretches laterally or distorts, again affecting the appearance of the texture maps.  Using smoothing isn't always a solution as some clothing is just not recognised producing an error message and with others if I add too much to correct such mesh uissues as above, item sprouts "spikes" and other deflromties that becomes worse the higher the iteration rate is set. 

Mada

One thing you can try to avoid some of those issues - find a clothing item that's close to the design you want to transfer over - auto fit the clothing to that outfit instead of G9. Unfit the new clothing item, and use scene identification to change the preferred base to Genesis 8. Save the outfit, reload it on Genesis 8. That will help a lot to get rid of the problem with skirts.

Nath

Mada said:

One thing you can try to avoid some of those issues - find a clothing item that's close to the design you want to transfer over - auto fit the clothing to that outfit instead of G9. Unfit the new clothing item, and use scene identification to change the preferred base to Genesis 9. Save the outfit, reload it on Genesis 9. That will help a lot to get rid of the problem with skirts.

Interesting workaround! But surely you mean G8 LOL

Mada

lol - typo faerie strikes again - I fixed it :)

kyoto kid

...wishful thinking?  Quantum glitch?

Mada

Time travel

kyoto kid

...blue police box or Deloran equipped with a Mr. Fusion?

maikdecker

kyoto kid said:

...blue police box or Deloran eqipped with a Mr. Fusion?

Probably more in the Groundhog Day or Edge of Tomorrow style...

charles

Malandar said:

GhostofMacbeth said:

Malandar said:

GhostofMacbeth said:

Malandar said:

GhostofMacbeth said:

I tried to do some of that in my new set ... Not just for orcs 

 I was about to buy that, I may still, but that would require me learning how to texture things myself. The outfit looks good, and the price is good, but one thing just makes me not able to use it. I make Chain mail myself and the way that is textured the links are falling the wrong way the links are all close together and gravity is not pulling them open, and it would not be as flexible or protective as if they fell the proper way. I just can't use something I know is wrong. it's like a Ford Mustang with Chevy and Impala emblems on it. (This is not just you, so please don't think I am singling you out to rag on you about this, I have mentioned this before several times and I always get the answer they don't really care and this line... "well learn how to texture and do it yourself" If Chainmail was made to fall properly I would have bought a lot more outfits that use chainmail in them both male and female.

Would this be the right way to have it? I can't do the gravity control but I can make it so they lay the right way if that was an issue.

 Yes, that is the way the mail should hang on the body,  That looks pretty good, often, the sleeves will hang open the other direction. You can see what I mean by looking at Aragorn and Eomer in the pictures above. I understand that might be a pain to get done because it would probably require remapping the shirt and then the rings would likely be hard to blend together properly, but as it is in your picture there it looks pretty good. The only thing would be movement because as the wearer spreads their legs the links along the bottom would open up (Something that I know would be a pain in the rump as you would likely have to make an entirely different texture map just for that sort of posing) allowing the wearer more freedom of movement, the reason the links are worn in this direction is because weapon points tend to follow a path of least resistance  not to mention the links are closer together making it harder to find an opening, and with the links like this the links will rotate allowing the point to slide down the shirt instead of catching allowing the weapon wielder a leverage point to try to thrust through the armor... my explanation is probably kinda simple, but it is basically correct. If the links are as you originally textured it, the links would fall open leaving gaps in the links where weapon points could find a spot to go through way more easily.

Here is a site for reference, they are showing how to make a mail short so they don't have a completed one, but they do have a slab of mail on a table where you can see the pattern across the body shoulders, and arms.

https://www.instructables.com/How-to-make-a-chainmail-shirt/

This thing here in this picture here... NOT how it should be, see all the wide-open holes where small weapons could penetrate? This is how the links would look if gravity could affect the mail with the links hanging the wrong way. (This is done by people who don't know better and who want to be done WAY sooner.) It's just wrong.

Thanks for actually taking the time to see how it would look with the texture the other way, no one else ever took the time to do even that. Even if nothing comes of it.

EDIT: I made another post, but then figured I should just add it on here

Considering a certain someone is talking crap about my post somewhere else, I will clarify, I am not asking for rotating links or modeled links or demanding anything. What I mentioned about rotating links was just me describing the function of the armor and why the links should be vertical and not horizontal... (Just in case anyone else mistakes what I wrote Sorry for any confusion.)

Quote

I am willing to admit I am no expert. I wanted to be sure it worked and that it wasn't just a solid shirt with some chainlink texture on it but that you could actually see through it and that it wasn't just on a skin but that it had a tunic under it, etc. I can probably package up the turned chainmail texture pretty easily and add it to the set. Or make it a freebie for the set.

Well, it took me a bit longer to find my mail shirt than I thought it would, but I finally found it. I was going to take a few pictures of me wearing it, but I think I have expanded a bit since I made it and I don't want to get stuck in 40 pounds of steel links, so here are a few pictures of it on the floor, I arranged it basically how it would be if worn The first picture is about how much you can see through a mail shirt with big 12 gauge wire rings (Which is why the shirt is so danged heavy). The second picture shows the channels the links make that can direct weapon points away from the wearer instead of allowing the weapon points to catch easily like they can in the last picture which is the mail all opened up as if it were hanging the wrong way, you can see through the links way more and the way the links are situated weapon points are much more likely to catch on links. The missing link in the last picture is from where I did an arrow test and it went clean through the shirt. lol, the arrow bent that ring all to hell and back.

Cool, this is exactly the type of ring we made as kids. It’s basically rolled medium gauge wire on a dowel rod, then snipped with pliers and then connected each ring one at a time. You wouldn't actually want to wear that in a real sword fight though.  Well you would, it's better than nothing but it won't offer the same type of protection as riveted ring mail.  As your arrow test proves, non rivited mail won't stop a real hit.

 

pjwhoopie@yandex.com

Well, it looks like there will be "just enough" male content in the DAZ store to meet demand.

Out of curiousity, I clicked on the Forum Gallery just to see what was up.  Not a scientific survey, but in an era where we use science or not use science to meet our particular political goal, I think it will work.

Of the 25 images on the gallery front page, 5 had males, 16 Females, and 4 were "atmospheric/environment" renders.
That is 64% Female, 20% Male, and 16% Environment/Props/Other

Which sounds almost exactly like what the daz store is currently made up of.

In the Vendor vs Customer war, me thinks there might be a bit of hyperbole from both sides.  

At the end of the day, I am guessing that the majority of PAs are "Mom & Pop" shops, or more than likely, "just Mom", or "just Pop", so if you make X and it sells 100 units, and you make Y and it sells... even 95 units, your time is better spent making the Xs and more types of Xs then "Y".  That is just business and common sense.

We don't get to peek behind the curtain of Daz sales to see what sells and in what numbers...  but I'd guess we more often buy Female stuff cause we like it, its cool/sexy etc, and we buy the male stuff because we have a particular need for something in a Render.



 

Gordig

Chumly said:

We don't get to peek behind the curtain of Daz sales to see what sells and in what numbers...  but I'd guess we more often buy Female stuff cause we like it, its cool/sexy etc, and we buy the male stuff because we have a particular need for something in a Render.

We do, however, have multiple PAs telling us how their sales figures differ between male and female content, not that that seems to influence anyone else's opinions on the matter.

charles

Finally got around to working on the chainmail. This is the first pass attempt and even though it didn't come out very well, that's basically because I fiddled with it too much in blender, and I did the big NO NO of utilizing a mask.  When fiddling with it to make it fit, I wound up stretching and skewing the links too much and the mask wound up messing up the armpits. There is also a huge cavity in that you can't use smoothing modifier on this. Also I need to do some kind of weight mapping to fix the stretching on the elbows, or cut the sleeves shorter. I highly doubt dforce will work with this either.

But the good news is that it IS POSSIBLE to create a true chainmail shirt and rig it to a character. Someone who has a bit (LOT) more skill in these things than me should tackle this.

 

WendyLuvsCatz

wow, I bet that's a heavy scene

very impressive too

I tried something similar using Zbrush Micropoly mail exported as geometry and lets just say, no way I could rig that!

an example of micropoly, not mine, that not worth sharing it was crashyAF

 

xyer0

Well, now that Luthbel has done a Daz Original, perhaps Daz will subsidize a few contemporary outfits from him---instead of costumes. I'm content with that and whatever Mada, Mal3Imagery, & Luthbellina provide, although I wish Protozoon would do for men's business suits what they did for tuxedoes.

WendyLuvsCatz

good grief, mine looks like one of those soda fountains you have in home bars

I don't think it will rig well let alone Dforce 

er no, it doesn't

charles

WendyLuvsCatz said:

good grief, mine looks like one of those soda fountains you have in home bars

I don't think it will rig well let alone Dforce 

er no, it doesn't

And that's from the Zbrush micropoly?

 

almahiedra

Noah LGP said:

I can't imagine a vendor from a clothing store telling me to create my own outfits by myself and sell them.

It's not that hard to sew pieces of fabric

In fact, my sister do this because she don't like the cloths in the stores. Also, it is possible pay to somebody if this is complex. So, is a good advise even in a real world. 

WendyLuvsCatz

charles said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

good grief, mine looks like one of those soda fountains you have in home bars

I don't think it will rig well let alone Dforce 

er no, it doesn't

And that's from the Zbrush micropoly?

 

yes, generated mesh but rigging pulls vertices into ugly triangles particularly under the arms with poses and dforce will error out after several hours sorting springs, it's pretty useless, are lots of chainmail type presets but I chose what I thought was simplest to dforce as just interlocked toruses. 

Mada

charles said:

But the good news is that it IS POSSIBLE to create a true chainmail shirt and rig it to a character. Someone who has a bit (LOT) more skill in these things than me should tackle this.

But that is exactly where the problem comes in - rigging something like this. I'm looking at under the arms and I don't see any way to smooth that without the chains unlinking from each other - never mind smoothing for both arms forward and bend down combined - and I think I can safely say that I'm not a novice rigger :) Certainly I don't see a way to get it to a point where it would be possible for me to sell in a store. It might be possible to get it halfway there if you used a shirt the same size as a donor item but again - chains are going to unlink or crunch out of shape with more complicated poses.

harold_withers

I have noticed this trend myself too though. I don't purchase a lot of clothing through Daz, but when looking for sci-fi themed gear lately, I have noted that there are a lot of costumes/outfits/uniforms or whatever, which are fairly non-sex specific, like a space suit, jump suit, armour or flight suit, which would be pretty much the same for a male or female character, only to find that it has only been developed to work with female figures, which is a bit of a pain to say the least, especially as in this case, rather than the above comparison between male and female clothing being something skimpy and a 3 piece suit, here there would be, I would imagine, fairly similar workloads to produce a male version of these outfits in addition to the female ones. It is a little frustrating. I don't for a moment think that male clothing content is dead, but on searching for specific clothing I have noted that it does seem to skew noticeably towards female only clothing content.

pjwhoopie@yandex.com

MelissaGT said:

Chumly said:

Hmmm....
Could DAZ itself incentivise PA's making Male stuff?

Back in the day, Ladies Night at the local club meant women got in free and had reduced drink prices.  The result was that a crap ton of men came too, paying full price because they "knew" the women would be there.

Could DAZ incentivise the making of Male stuff by giving the PA's a "larger cut" or larger return on Male Stuff sold?

Also, and I have posted this idea before but it gets shot down almost out of hand....

I think some PAs are missing an opportunity by not going the PATREON route in addition their DAZ/RENDO/R'Otica/etc etc stores.

Yes, the PA maybe working on their umpteenth Flowing Sexy Dress for a DAZ shop sale, but via PATREON, you can connect to your audience directly.  I would have no problem supporting some of my fav's at 5 Quid a month.  Communicate and let us feel we are part of your support team and I'd bet good things would happen. 
All those things you have been working on that might not be ready for Daz Prime Time (or NSFW) could be given out as supprot freebies
 

Given the skill level and time requirement for making super detailed clothing, I'd go out on a limb and say that $5/mo isn't enough of an incentive to make it worth a creator's time. Yes, multiple memberships multiplied by $5/mo adds up, but if the clothing item (in the store) should/would cost around $25 or $30 (or more, depending on level of complexity), how could I expect it to be given to me for only $5/mo? Heck, there's someone on Patreon that charges a $5/mo membership fee to download all their ripped video game models rigged up for use in Daz. 

I do like the concept of Daz incentivizing creators to create more of specific content, but others could say that's discrimination. 

Sigh... I guess this is why some artist "starve".....

A fellow PA, (NSFW) Squarepeg3d, doesn't sell at Daz, but has a Deviantart Page, and sells via some other venders... I can't say how much they are making off of "sales" at proper stores, but I can tell you they have an income of $6,424 PER MONTH (or Euro 5,663/ GPB 4,739) from PATREON for those just subscribing to support & view his renders/comics. - They also have a Subscirbe Star Membership, but I don't know what that brings in...  In addition to that, for an extra $1-$3 per month (which 265 patrons take advantage of), you get access to thier daz resources and tips/tricks.  So combined, This PA is making $83,748 Annually just off of Patreon. (Before taxes of course).  Assuming Daz was paying you $10 for each time you sold an item (and I am guessing that is a bit of a stretch... no?), you'd have to sell 698 items per month at the daz store to equal that. 
Maybe it is happening for you... congrats.

And really, SquarePegs' doing what most PA's are doing already as far as creating content.  There are some PA's here, on THIS forum, that are making the same kinds of things and pitching to the same types of audiences that SP does, but are missing the financial boat.

As I have said before, its doing what you are already doing...

Create Great Products that Customers want (most of Squarepegs are given away)
Make Interesting/Provocative Images/Comics with the products they make
Communicate with their customers

but by allowing customers to support you and feel that they are "on your team"... you can reap a financial benefit as well as get an opportunity to make the cool things you really want to make, but might not be a grocery getter sales generator at Daz.

If the monetary figure$ don't convice you... well then, you are beyond convicing....
You can tell me I am wrong of course... as some of you have already said,  but  $quarePeg'$ Patreon Number$ don't lie... 

 

nonesuch00

Chumly said:

MelissaGT said:

Chumly said:

Hmmm....
Could DAZ itself incentivise PA's making Male stuff?

Back in the day, Ladies Night at the local club meant women got in free and had reduced drink prices.  The result was that a crap ton of men came too, paying full price because they "knew" the women would be there.

Could DAZ incentivise the making of Male stuff by giving the PA's a "larger cut" or larger return on Male Stuff sold?

Also, and I have posted this idea before but it gets shot down almost out of hand....

I think some PAs are missing an opportunity by not going the PATREON route in addition their DAZ/RENDO/R'Otica/etc etc stores.

Yes, the PA maybe working on their umpteenth Flowing Sexy Dress for a DAZ shop sale, but via PATREON, you can connect to your audience directly.  I would have no problem supporting some of my fav's at 5 Quid a month.  Communicate and let us feel we are part of your support team and I'd bet good things would happen. 
All those things you have been working on that might not be ready for Daz Prime Time (or NSFW) could be given out as supprot freebies
 

Given the skill level and time requirement for making super detailed clothing, I'd go out on a limb and say that $5/mo isn't enough of an incentive to make it worth a creator's time. Yes, multiple memberships multiplied by $5/mo adds up, but if the clothing item (in the store) should/would cost around $25 or $30 (or more, depending on level of complexity), how could I expect it to be given to me for only $5/mo? Heck, there's someone on Patreon that charges a $5/mo membership fee to download all their ripped video game models rigged up for use in Daz. 

I do like the concept of Daz incentivizing creators to create more of specific content, but others could say that's discrimination. 

Sigh... I guess this is why some artist "starve".....

A fellow PA, (NSFW) Squarepeg3d, doesn't sell at Daz, but has a Deviantart Page, and sells via some other venders... I can't say how much they are making off of "sales" at proper stores, but I can tell you they have an income of $6,424 PER MONTH (or Euro 5,663/ GPB 4,739) from PATREON for those just subscribing to support & view his renders/comics. - They also have a Subscirbe Star Membership, but I don't know what that brings in...  In addition to that, for an extra $1-$3 per month (which 265 patrons take advantage of), you get access to thier daz resources and tips/tricks.  So combined, This PA is making $83,748 Annually just off of Patreon. (Before taxes of course).  Assuming Daz was paying you $10 for each time you sold an item (and I am guessing that is a bit of a stretch... no?), you'd have to sell 698 items per month at the daz store to equal that. 
Maybe it is happening for you... congrats.

And really, SquarePegs' doing what most PA's are doing already as far as creating content.  There are some PA's here, on THIS forum, that are making the same kinds of things and pitching to the same types of audiences that SP does, but are missing the financial boat.

As I have said before, its doing what you are already doing...

Create Great Products that Customers want (most of Squarepegs are given away)
Make Interesting/Provocative Images/Comics with the products they make
Communicate with their customers

but by allowing customers to support you and feel that they are "on your team"... you can reap a financial benefit as well as get an opportunity to make the cool things you really want to make, but might not be a grocery getter sales generator at Daz.

If the monetary figure$ don't convice you... well then, you are beyond convicing....
You can tell me I am wrong of course... as some of you have already said,  but  $quarePeg'$ Patreon Number$ don't lie... 

 

squarepeg3D has a lot of great freebies at Renderosity. I used 2 or 3 of their wrestling pose sets to make this render.

The Penal Pub Presents: The Bedtime Bouncers!

 

Fauvist

Chumly said:

MelissaGT said:

Chumly said:

Hmmm....
Could DAZ itself incentivise PA's making Male stuff?

Back in the day, Ladies Night at the local club meant women got in free and had reduced drink prices.  The result was that a crap ton of men came too, paying full price because they "knew" the women would be there.

Could DAZ incentivise the making of Male stuff by giving the PA's a "larger cut" or larger return on Male Stuff sold?

Also, and I have posted this idea before but it gets shot down almost out of hand....

I think some PAs are missing an opportunity by not going the PATREON route in addition their DAZ/RENDO/R'Otica/etc etc stores.

Yes, the PA maybe working on their umpteenth Flowing Sexy Dress for a DAZ shop sale, but via PATREON, you can connect to your audience directly.  I would have no problem supporting some of my fav's at 5 Quid a month.  Communicate and let us feel we are part of your support team and I'd bet good things would happen. 
All those things you have been working on that might not be ready for Daz Prime Time (or NSFW) could be given out as supprot freebies
 

Given the skill level and time requirement for making super detailed clothing, I'd go out on a limb and say that $5/mo isn't enough of an incentive to make it worth a creator's time. Yes, multiple memberships multiplied by $5/mo adds up, but if the clothing item (in the store) should/would cost around $25 or $30 (or more, depending on level of complexity), how could I expect it to be given to me for only $5/mo? Heck, there's someone on Patreon that charges a $5/mo membership fee to download all their ripped video game models rigged up for use in Daz. 

I do like the concept of Daz incentivizing creators to create more of specific content, but others could say that's discrimination. 

Sigh... I guess this is why some artist "starve".....

A fellow PA, (NSFW) Squarepeg3d, doesn't sell at Daz, but has a Deviantart Page, and sells via some other venders... I can't say how much they are making off of "sales" at proper stores, but I can tell you they have an income of $6,424 PER MONTH (or Euro 5,663/ GPB 4,739) from PATREON for those just subscribing to support & view his renders/comics. - They also have a Subscirbe Star Membership, but I don't know what that brings in...  In addition to that, for an extra $1-$3 per month (which 265 patrons take advantage of), you get access to thier daz resources and tips/tricks.  So combined, This PA is making $83,748 Annually just off of Patreon. (Before taxes of course).  Assuming Daz was paying you $10 for each time you sold an item (and I am guessing that is a bit of a stretch... no?), you'd have to sell 698 items per month at the daz store to equal that. 
Maybe it is happening for you... congrats.

And really, SquarePegs' doing what most PA's are doing already as far as creating content.  There are some PA's here, on THIS forum, that are making the same kinds of things and pitching to the same types of audiences that SP does, but are missing the financial boat.

As I have said before, its doing what you are already doing...

Create Great Products that Customers want (most of Squarepegs are given away)
Make Interesting/Provocative Images/Comics with the products they make
Communicate with their customers

but by allowing customers to support you and feel that they are "on your team"... you can reap a financial benefit as well as get an opportunity to make the cool things you really want to make, but might not be a grocery getter sales generator at Daz.

If the monetary figure$ don't convice you... well then, you are beyond convicing....
You can tell me I am wrong of course... as some of you have already said,  but  $quarePeg'$ Patreon Number$ don't lie... 

 

 They're only making $6500 a month because of their (politely phrased) NSFW content.  They have to be on Patreon because most platforms don't allow you to post "that sort of thing".  Just try selling it from an Instagram page and see what happens.  BTW - Patreon has started to CENSOR the content on the site.  Many "artists" have had HUNDREDS of their images removed - such as the artist Homoeros, who has had countless images removed - he replaces them with a BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU meme.  eBay is removing thousands of NSFW products.  Tumblr tumbled.

UHF

Fauvist said:

 They're only making $6500 a month because of their (politely phrased) NSFW content.  They have to be on Patreon because most platforms don't allow you to post "that sort of thing".  Just try selling it from an Instagram page and see what happens.  BTW - Patreon has started to CENSOR the content on the site.  Many "artists" have had HUNDREDS of their images removed - such as the artist Homoeros, who has had countless images removed - he replaces them with a BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU meme.  eBay is removing thousands of NSFW products.  Tumblr tumbled.

I wish I could give you a thumbs up for that post.

 

Personally, I've started prioritizing male materials because I'm overloaded with female stuff.  When I do buy clothing, I also try to prioritize getting additional textures for it.  (Because you know... you're gonna have to get the most use out of it that, that you can.)

 

I think one of the biggest issues is that the Daz store is difficult to navigate.  If you want something specific... good luck.  With everything in the store, its even harder to spot the right male item in that mix.  And I swear that there are days when you're looking at things and wondering who da heck categorized it...

The next best cure is to reuse items from older\different models, but that's not a very straightforward process, and I don't feel that Daz makes it easy to try and figure that out.  (Meshgrabber is in the store for a reason...)

 

I think PAs can stand out more by selling clothes with more morphs than just character fits.  I prioritize those over the more basic clothing items.

I feel that customers need to learn more about adapting existing clothes to their needs.

almahiedra

Chumly said:

MelissaGT said:

Chumly said:

Hmmm....
Could DAZ itself incentivise PA's making Male stuff?

Back in the day, Ladies Night at the local club meant women got in free and had reduced drink prices.  The result was that a crap ton of men came too, paying full price because they "knew" the women would be there.

Could DAZ incentivise the making of Male stuff by giving the PA's a "larger cut" or larger return on Male Stuff sold?

Also, and I have posted this idea before but it gets shot down almost out of hand....

I think some PAs are missing an opportunity by not going the PATREON route in addition their DAZ/RENDO/R'Otica/etc etc stores.

Yes, the PA maybe working on their umpteenth Flowing Sexy Dress for a DAZ shop sale, but via PATREON, you can connect to your audience directly.  I would have no problem supporting some of my fav's at 5 Quid a month.  Communicate and let us feel we are part of your support team and I'd bet good things would happen. 
All those things you have been working on that might not be ready for Daz Prime Time (or NSFW) could be given out as supprot freebies
 

Given the skill level and time requirement for making super detailed clothing, I'd go out on a limb and say that $5/mo isn't enough of an incentive to make it worth a creator's time. Yes, multiple memberships multiplied by $5/mo adds up, but if the clothing item (in the store) should/would cost around $25 or $30 (or more, depending on level of complexity), how could I expect it to be given to me for only $5/mo? Heck, there's someone on Patreon that charges a $5/mo membership fee to download all their ripped video game models rigged up for use in Daz. 

I do like the concept of Daz incentivizing creators to create more of specific content, but others could say that's discrimination. 

Sigh... I guess this is why some artist "starve".....

A fellow PA, (NSFW) Squarepeg3d, doesn't sell at Daz, but has a Deviantart Page, and sells via some other venders... I can't say how much they are making off of "sales" at proper stores, but I can tell you they have an income of $6,424 PER MONTH (or Euro 5,663/ GPB 4,739) from PATREON for those just subscribing to support & view his renders/comics. - They also have a Subscirbe Star Membership, but I don't know what that brings in...  In addition to that, for an extra $1-$3 per month (which 265 patrons take advantage of), you get access to thier daz resources and tips/tricks.  So combined, This PA is making $83,748 Annually just off of Patreon. (Before taxes of course).  Assuming Daz was paying you $10 for each time you sold an item (and I am guessing that is a bit of a stretch... no?), you'd have to sell 698 items per month at the daz store to equal that. 
Maybe it is happening for you... congrats.

And really, SquarePegs' doing what most PA's are doing already as far as creating content.  There are some PA's here, on THIS forum, that are making the same kinds of things and pitching to the same types of audiences that SP does, but are missing the financial boat.

As I have said before, its doing what you are already doing...

Create Great Products that Customers want (most of Squarepegs are given away)
Make Interesting/Provocative Images/Comics with the products they make
Communicate with their customers

but by allowing customers to support you and feel that they are "on your team"... you can reap a financial benefit as well as get an opportunity to make the cool things you really want to make, but might not be a grocery getter sales generator at Daz.

If the monetary figure$ don't convice you... well then, you are beyond convicing....
You can tell me I am wrong of course... as some of you have already said,  but  $quarePeg'$ Patreon Number$ don't lie... 

 

I can't see all the Squarepeg3d content, but those I can see and load are about very ultra hyper expo sexy women. So it is not the best example about make male clothes with Patreon.

In other hand, Thanks. I had curiosity about Squarepeg3d income and Patreon posibilities.

maikdecker

GiGi_7 said:

I can't see all the Squarepeg3d content, but those I can see and load are about very ultra hyper expo sexy women. So it is not the best example about make male clothes with Patreon.

In other hand, Thanks. I had curiosity about Squarepeg3d income and Patreon posibilities.

The idea behind it probably was about using Patreon as a platform of diverse products a PA offers, generating a (more or less) stable income to allow the PA to take the risk to invest time to do male content.

From the different Patreon artists I follow (and in some cases support) it seems that there seem to be quite a few people out there ready to invest $1.- a month for even the most improbable ideas/products... one has just to be fortunate enough to attract them.

MelissaGT

Fauvist said:

Chumly said:

MelissaGT said:

Chumly said:

Hmmm....
Could DAZ itself incentivise PA's making Male stuff?

Back in the day, Ladies Night at the local club meant women got in free and had reduced drink prices.  The result was that a crap ton of men came too, paying full price because they "knew" the women would be there.

Could DAZ incentivise the making of Male stuff by giving the PA's a "larger cut" or larger return on Male Stuff sold?

Also, and I have posted this idea before but it gets shot down almost out of hand....

I think some PAs are missing an opportunity by not going the PATREON route in addition their DAZ/RENDO/R'Otica/etc etc stores.

Yes, the PA maybe working on their umpteenth Flowing Sexy Dress for a DAZ shop sale, but via PATREON, you can connect to your audience directly.  I would have no problem supporting some of my fav's at 5 Quid a month.  Communicate and let us feel we are part of your support team and I'd bet good things would happen. 
All those things you have been working on that might not be ready for Daz Prime Time (or NSFW) could be given out as supprot freebies
 

Given the skill level and time requirement for making super detailed clothing, I'd go out on a limb and say that $5/mo isn't enough of an incentive to make it worth a creator's time. Yes, multiple memberships multiplied by $5/mo adds up, but if the clothing item (in the store) should/would cost around $25 or $30 (or more, depending on level of complexity), how could I expect it to be given to me for only $5/mo? Heck, there's someone on Patreon that charges a $5/mo membership fee to download all their ripped video game models rigged up for use in Daz. 

I do like the concept of Daz incentivizing creators to create more of specific content, but others could say that's discrimination. 

Sigh... I guess this is why some artist "starve".....

A fellow PA, (NSFW) Squarepeg3d, doesn't sell at Daz, but has a Deviantart Page, and sells via some other venders... I can't say how much they are making off of "sales" at proper stores, but I can tell you they have an income of $6,424 PER MONTH (or Euro 5,663/ GPB 4,739) from PATREON for those just subscribing to support & view his renders/comics. - They also have a Subscirbe Star Membership, but I don't know what that brings in...  In addition to that, for an extra $1-$3 per month (which 265 patrons take advantage of), you get access to thier daz resources and tips/tricks.  So combined, This PA is making $83,748 Annually just off of Patreon. (Before taxes of course).  Assuming Daz was paying you $10 for each time you sold an item (and I am guessing that is a bit of a stretch... no?), you'd have to sell 698 items per month at the daz store to equal that. 
Maybe it is happening for you... congrats.

And really, SquarePegs' doing what most PA's are doing already as far as creating content.  There are some PA's here, on THIS forum, that are making the same kinds of things and pitching to the same types of audiences that SP does, but are missing the financial boat.

As I have said before, its doing what you are already doing...

Create Great Products that Customers want (most of Squarepegs are given away)
Make Interesting/Provocative Images/Comics with the products they make
Communicate with their customers

but by allowing customers to support you and feel that they are "on your team"... you can reap a financial benefit as well as get an opportunity to make the cool things you really want to make, but might not be a grocery getter sales generator at Daz.

If the monetary figure$ don't convice you... well then, you are beyond convicing....
You can tell me I am wrong of course... as some of you have already said,  but  $quarePeg'$ Patreon Number$ don't lie... 

 

 They're only making $6500 a month because of their (politely phrased) NSFW content.  They have to be on Patreon because most platforms don't allow you to post "that sort of thing".  Just try selling it from an Instagram page and see what happens.  BTW - Patreon has started to CENSOR the content on the site.  Many "artists" have had HUNDREDS of their images removed - such as the artist Homoeros, who has had countless images removed - he replaces them with a BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU meme.  eBay is removing thousands of NSFW products.  Tumblr tumbled.

Which means that income could go away tomorrow, no matter how much one might not agree with all the censorship going around (not even going to comment due to politics and forum rules). I'm just talking from the income perspective of it. Good money now, but it would be scary for me to not know if my meal ticket could just go poof. (Though we all suffer with that fear to some extent these days.)

 

MelissaGT

UHF said:

Fauvist said:

 They're only making $6500 a month because of their (politely phrased) NSFW content.  They have to be on Patreon because most platforms don't allow you to post "that sort of thing".  Just try selling it from an Instagram page and see what happens.  BTW - Patreon has started to CENSOR the content on the site.  Many "artists" have had HUNDREDS of their images removed - such as the artist Homoeros, who has had countless images removed - he replaces them with a BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU meme.  eBay is removing thousands of NSFW products.  Tumblr tumbled.

I wish I could give you a thumbs up for that post.

 

Personally, I've started prioritizing male materials because I'm overloaded with female stuff.  When I do buy clothing, I also try to prioritize getting additional textures for it.  (Because you know... you're gonna have to get the most use out of it that, that you can.)

 

I think one of the biggest issues is that the Daz store is difficult to navigate.  If you want something specific... good luck.  With everything in the store, its even harder to spot the right male item in that mix.  And I swear that there are days when you're looking at things and wondering who da heck categorized it...

The next best cure is to reuse items from older\different models, but that's not a very straightforward process, and I don't feel that Daz makes it easy to try and figure that out.  (Meshgrabber is in the store for a reason...)

 

I think PAs can stand out more by selling clothes with more morphs than just character fits.  I prioritize those over the more basic clothing items.

I feel that customers need to learn more about adapting existing clothes to their needs.

Holy gods, the store is nigh on impossible to search.  

The Blurst of Times

Yeah, store is kind of a bear.

I'm looking for dresses/outfits with Empire waists... no way to do that except a visual scan with Mk.1 eyeball.

It's just "dress" for search, no real ability to look for different kinds of dresses... and even then, that simple word seems incomplete for search coverage.
How do I know? Because I ran the search for Empire waists twice... one for "Dress" and one for "Gown".
(These words have some overlap, but they don't bring back the same results.)

This is fine if the overall data were good (such that I could simply search for Empire waists)... mainly because gowns and dresses aren't quite the same thing.

However, the data isn't really there. Just a description, and if the keywords aren't in the description?
Well, Mk.1 eyeball is the only way to find what you want.