Ninive 6

pc2014

I'm very much not fond of the shape of Ninive. With her gigantic head and twig body, she looks like she's suffering from anorexia. However, I like the two hair pieces, and some of the skins are interesting.

Mistara

Storypilot said:

Misty Whisky said:

dunno, has that overly white light look.

they need a 3DE badge. lol

It would be good if that new non-iray badge actually said 3Delight, that would stop the ambiguity. But I think it's safe to say that is not iray in those promos. Those are not iray shadows. Also, having gone through the process of converting AprilYSH's hair materials to iray several times myself, I found it to be one of the more tricky conversions - so that would be a good reason for DAZ to render her hair promos in 3Delight while almost everything else in the bundles is iray. I've actually been waiting for the opposite thing - an AprilYSH promo that IS rendered in iray. :)

Editing to add: in case I sound totally pro-iray promos, i'm not, I think the products should all ideally have at least one promo from each engine.

that would mean we're seeing Ninive skin in 3de?

Xenomorphine

To paraphrase Sickleyield, if you're trying to sell a product, that means promoting it in the best possible image quality. By and large, that means Iray (although, one could just as easily say Reality and so on).

However, I do agree that there should be at least one or more renders labelled as having been generated with 3Delight means, for clarity's sake.

Khory

I’m seeing all these promos that are rendered with Iray, but don’t have iray settings. Misleading!

How so? If the product is loaded into the scene and rendered it shows what your getting. How are you misled? Because it also works well in Iray? Not having Iray settings DOES NOT mean that it does not work in Iray. The DAZ folks did an AMAZING job setting all the iray shader stuff up so that it transfers over beautifully with no adjustment a tremendous amount of the time. Over the last few weeks I have used scads of things in renders with no adjustments to any surfaces and they render like just as they should. I think your assumption is that everything has to be adjusted like we use to have to do for poser settings. The difference is that DAZ was able to create a system that converts many things right off the bat without us having to make any more adjustments than we would normally expect to with different lighting situations.

if it DOES NOT have Iray settings, and only has 3delight settings, then the promos should be in 3delight. Otherwise, the promos are inaccurately representing what you actually are getting.

Why? If people are using the default render engine why should they not be able to see how the product looks in that engine? Rendering in Iray is not inaccurately representing any thing since it is a representation of how the product renders in Iray. Should there be some images using 3dl? Probably. But rendering them in the default engine going forward is pretty logical since it is what most people will be using down the line.

I have a scene rendering right now with the bog standard, as it loads V6 HD skin. I didn't change anything but the cornea and the eye surface and to be honest I would have done that with a 3dl render because I always have. The room that she is standing in does not have any Iray settings applied either and it looks as it should look. In fact the only thing in the whole scene that has Iray settings on it the leather shaders presets I am doing a promo for. I don't think I have bothered to touch the settings on anything other than metals in most of the props I have used over the last week or two because I just didn't need to. The only real issues I have had with anything was very old products that had texture maps that are too small to look good in Iray and those were products that were over 5 years old.

DisparateDreamer

Dream Cutter said:

belovedalia said:

Khory said:

So far, i have only seen ONE!!!!! character add on and/or hair that specifically lists material settings for Iray, and ironically, it was NOT at the Daz Store.

That is because the PA's here had to wait for the Iray surface settings to be finalized before we submitted. And even then some of the ones we sent in in the first couple of days had to have edits to make repairs. Sometimes being first out the door means that there are errors included as part of the product and since they were not here they wouldn't have been tested for or corrected. Would you rather have it fast or have it right?

I think you're missing the point. i want the product to CLEARLY state if it has Iray settings. if it does, then show the promos with Iray. if it DOES NOT have Iray settings, and only has 3delight settings, then the promos should be in 3delight. Otherwise, the promos are inaccurately representing what you actually are getting.

I'm seeing all these promos that are rendered with Iray, but don't have iray settings. Misleading!
Even worse, when one of those products doesn't have a single 3Delight render to show what you're actually purchasing.

I'm sure Daz wants to get it right. I'm sure vendors want to include the best.

But promos need to actually portray the settings that the character/figure/prop whatever come with, not "if you happen to convert it such and such a way just like this person does." That's what people call "may work in Poser with tweaking" or "may work in DS with tweaking" or "may work in Iray with tweaking"

This is my frustration. Not specifically the lack of Iray settings, as i'm learning to use Iray myself, but rather what feels like false advertising.
Its a figure not a ready to render scene.If a render's look can be duplicated using the product that is sold, regardless of the render adjustments - what difference is it beyond any other artist adjustments? Light position(s) affect the look of the product render most and those positions are not offered in any figure products. Whats the difference to render engine and the material setting?

Wow... just...

Of course lights affect a surface differently, but material settings make a HUGE difference. There's people who won't buy a poser item if it doesn't have ds materials, because its a lot of work to set up the materials. And well, there's now three main material setups- old HSS or USS, the new AoA SSS, and now the Iray settings. They all render in different ways, need slightly different light settings an render settings, and they DO matter. Not just for the buyer, but for the vendor. If you're fairly new, heck even if you're not, and you see something "Iray ready" and you think, 'yay! i get to play in iray without wading through forums of settings first... cool!" but then you buy something that LOOKS "Iray ready" but isn't really, and find out you have a lot more setup than you realized... maybe a store return for misleading ad.

I mean, render engine here is a big difference. Just like Luxus and Reality was a big deal, Iray is a big deal. Settings do matter.

If its rendered in Iray, i'd hope for setup in Iray. If it's promos are all iray, but it doesn't have iray settings, i'd definitely feel cheated.

Maybe at other stores things are sold "okay for DS if its tweaked" but at least at daz, most things are ready with Daz materials.

And thanks Fred for the awesome guy! You're always ahead of the game :)

DisparateDreamer

Khory said:

I’m seeing all these promos that are rendered with Iray, but don’t have iray settings. Misleading!

How so? If the product is loaded into the scene and rendered it shows what your getting. How are you misled? Because it also works well in Iray? Not having Iray settings DOES NOT mean that it does not work in Iray. The DAZ folks did an AMAZING job setting all the iray shader stuff up so that it transfers over beautifully with no adjustment a tremendous amount of the time. Over the last few weeks I have used scads of things in renders with no adjustments to any surfaces and they render like just as they should. I think your assumption is that everything has to be adjusted like we use to have to do for poser settings. The difference is that DAZ was able to create a system that converts many things right off the bat without us having to make any more adjustments than we would normally expect to with different lighting situations.

if it DOES NOT have Iray settings, and only has 3delight settings, then the promos should be in 3delight. Otherwise, the promos are inaccurately representing what you actually are getting.

Why? If people are using the default render engine why should they not be able to see how the product looks in that engine? Rendering in Iray is not inaccurately representing any thing since it is a representation of how the product renders in Iray. Should there be some images using 3dl? Probably. But rendering them in the default engine going forward is pretty logical since it is what most people will be using down the line.

I have a scene rendering right now with the bog standard, as it loads V6 HD skin. I didn't change anything but the cornea and the eye surface and to be honest I would have done that with a 3dl render because I always have. The room that she is standing in does not have any Iray settings applied either and it looks as it should look. In fact the only thing in the whole scene that has Iray settings on it the leather shaders presets I am doing a promo for. I don't think I have bothered to touch the settings on anything other than metals in most of the props I have used over the last week or two because I just didn't need to. The only real issues I have had with anything was very old products that had texture maps that are too small to look good in Iray and those were products that were over 5 years old.

Thanks Khory, i think someone finally gave me some information that makes sense. :D

Maybe Daz needs to clarify.

You're absolutely right though, at least in the earliest beta (is there a newer version of it? i need to check) i had to do material setting up, weird eyes, etc. And i'm used to that- changing between poser and Ds, or DS and cararra, or using reality and Luxus....

So i'm used to the idea of everything needing its own settings. if it works like that default in Iray, i'm sold :)

caravelle

Misty Whisky said:

has anyone rendered Nimue Hair with 3DE?

looks nice, but afraid to buy it without seeing how it will look.

thanks :)

This is a quick 3DE render with DS default light. This hair is beautiful and comes with a megaton of morphs!

EnchantedPixie

All I can say is ...as a vendor and artist this shape has added alot of variety to my Gene pool lol and I like the characters I have coming for her. She is different but with just a lil bit of this and that beauty !!!

Male-M3dia

belovedalia said:

And thanks Fred for the awesome guy! You're always ahead of the game :)

Yeah, I'm not fred ;)

mrposer

- My guess is DAZ will keep 3Delight as the default Render engine to avoid mass confusion. The setting of Iray as default in the Beta could be to encourage experimentation.

- To fix Ninive's big head one could just adjust her breast size up a notch.

Chohole

MrPoser said:

- My guess is DAZ will keep 3Delight as the default Render engine to avoid mass confusion. The setting of Iray as default in the Beta could be to encourage experimentation.

- To fix Ninive's big head one could just adjust her breast size up a notch.

Does that mean small breasted females have small heads? :coolsmirk:

EnchantedPixie

Nothing about rendering in Iray is misleading and Iray is going to be the standard render engine for Daz Studio. I don' think there is or ever should be an instant art button but as a Vendor I can also say no Vendor I have ever met here at Daz ever intends to misrepresent their work and by using a particular render engine , they are not doing that to begin with. Speaking for my fellow Vendors if I may , we love what we do and we do it for the community , to always offer you our best .

Khory

There’s people who won’t buy a poser item if it doesn’t have ds materials, because its a lot of work to set up the materials. And well, there’s now three main material setups- old HSS or USS, the new AoA SSS, and now the Iray settings. They all render in different ways, need slightly different light settings an render settings, and they DO matter. Not just for the buyer, but for the vendor.

And that is exactly why most people are going to end up going with Iray. While there are minimal adjustments due to lighting (comparable to adding a little powder to cut down shine or adding a better lip gloss) in some cases the core settings will work in sunlight or photo studio just like our own skin does. A rock will be a rock will be a rock no matter where you render it because reality does not change around on a whim. Once we get a good foundation under us there will be so much less time fiddling with with things because we want a character who looks good day or night. A year from now new users will for once be able to load characters and not have to learn how to change half a dozen things for every render. They won't have to feel around for months to understand lights because to understand how light will look in Iray you turn on a light bulb and see what it does as far as light levels and fall off. There will still be a learning curve of course. Every new program has one. But it will be a much smoother and lower learning curve in the future simply because so many concepts are rooted in a world we actually live in.

Male-M3dia

MrPoser said:

- My guess is DAZ will keep 3Delight as the default Render engine to avoid mass confusion. The setting of Iray as default in the Beta could be to encourage experimentation.

No, when 4.8 goes live, Iray becomes the default so the setting is correct. DAZ stated in the first beta thread they extended the 3Delight engine for a few years as well.

Oso3D

I had my reservations about Iray, but being able to _easily_ set up glowing and translucent/transparent objects, to set up sensible lights without jumping through hoops, and with render times similar to comparable efforts in 3Delight (IE: mesh lights for 'accurate' lighting)...

I'm quite happy.

Oso3D

As for Ninive, she might be a good start for certain kinds of teens (the gawky awkward sort, for example). I actually had a girlfriend who looked a bit like her, weirdly.

I don't normally go for alternate models: I'd rather work with morphs and maybe get new skins). The hair looks nifty, though...

Dream Cutter

belovedalia said:

Dream Cutter said:

belovedalia said:

Khory said:

So far, i have only seen ONE!!!!! character add on and/or hair that specifically lists material settings for Iray, and ironically, it was NOT at the Daz Store.

That is because the PA's here had to wait for the Iray surface settings to be finalized before we submitted. And even then some of the ones we sent in in the first couple of days had to have edits to make repairs. Sometimes being first out the door means that there are errors included as part of the product and since they were not here they wouldn't have been tested for or corrected. Would you rather have it fast or have it right?

I think you're missing the point. i want the product to CLEARLY state if it has Iray settings. if it does, then show the promos with Iray. if it DOES NOT have Iray settings, and only has 3delight settings, then the promos should be in 3delight. Otherwise, the promos are inaccurately representing what you actually are getting.

I'm seeing all these promos that are rendered with Iray, but don't have iray settings. Misleading!
Even worse, when one of those products doesn't have a single 3Delight render to show what you're actually purchasing.

I'm sure Daz wants to get it right. I'm sure vendors want to include the best.

But promos need to actually portray the settings that the character/figure/prop whatever come with, not "if you happen to convert it such and such a way just like this person does." That's what people call "may work in Poser with tweaking" or "may work in DS with tweaking" or "may work in Iray with tweaking"

This is my frustration. Not specifically the lack of Iray settings, as i'm learning to use Iray myself, but rather what feels like false advertising.

Its a figure not a ready to render scene.If a render's look can be duplicated using the product that is sold, regardless of the render adjustments - what difference is it beyond any other artist adjustments? Light position(s) affect the look of the product render most and those positions are not offered in any figure products. Whats the difference to render engine and the material setting?

Wow... just...

Of course lights affect a surface differently, but material settings make a HUGE difference. There's people who won't buy a poser item if it doesn't have ds materials, because its a lot of work to set up the materials. And well, there's now three main material setups- old HSS or USS, the new AoA SSS, and now the Iray settings. They all render in different ways, need slightly different light settings an render settings, and they DO matter. Not just for the buyer, but for the vendor. If you're fairly new, heck even if you're not, and you see something "Iray ready" and you think, 'yay! i get to play in iray without wading through forums of settings first... cool!" but then you buy something that LOOKS "Iray ready" but isn't really, and find out you have a lot more setup than you realized... maybe a store return for misleading ad.

I mean, render engine here is a big difference. Just like Luxus and Reality was a big deal, Iray is a big deal. Settings do matter.

If its rendered in Iray, i'd hope for setup in Iray. If it's promos are all iray, but it doesn't have iray settings, i'd definitely feel cheated.

Maybe at other stores things are sold "okay for DS if its tweaked" but at least at daz, most things are ready with Daz materials.

And thanks Fred for the awesome guy! You're always ahead of the game :)

My cheeky in character response would be - "If yer not messing with the mats yer not having fun" . But think Khory did an outstanding job at explaining the perspective I was getting at. I think any vendor who ads value to their products with either extra content, quality, better merchandising with a great description and representative image detail will attract more sales.
If that's the point you are making then I think we all agree.

Dream Cutter

chohole said:

MrPoser said:

- My guess is DAZ will keep 3Delight as the default Render engine to avoid mass confusion. The setting of Iray as default in the Beta could be to encourage experimentation.

- To fix Ninive's big head one could just adjust her breast size up a notch.

Does that mean small breasted females have small heads? :coolsmirk:

I can assure you having a small head, has its advantages with the cleavage.:lol:

DisparateDreamer

Male-M3dia said:

belovedalia said:

And thanks Fred for the awesome guy! You're always ahead of the game :)

Yeah, I'm not fred ;)

Whoops.... shoot, i get the guys mixed up... the guys who make guys... uh... my apologies T_T In my defense it is 4 am for me.... zzzzz...
lame defense i know but thank you for correcting me :) Credit due where it is due! :)

WendyLuvsCatz

Dream Cutter said:

chohole said:

MrPoser said:

- My guess is DAZ will keep 3Delight as the default Render engine to avoid mass confusion. The setting of Iray as default in the Beta could be to encourage experimentation.

- To fix Ninive's big head one could just adjust her breast size up a notch.

Does that mean small breasted females have small heads? :coolsmirk:

I can assure you having a small head, has its advantages with the cleavage.:lol:
my head is smaller than average, I know this for a fact buying headgear such as bike helmets, hats and eyewear but I have doubleD bordering on E cup boobs, my shoulders also narrow but theres a damned big bum fat thighs and hips below, we are all shaped differently thats for certain, I have noticed actors tend to have big heads.

Ippotamus

As far as the Iray goes, I bought a couple of items that looked good in the Iray promo renders and am going to try them.
If they don't work/convert easily, I am going to return them and buy something that does.
It works out in the end. :)

Storypilot

Misty Whisky said:

Storypilot said:

Misty Whisky said:

dunno, has that overly white light look.

they need a 3DE badge. lol

It would be good if that new non-iray badge actually said 3Delight, that would stop the ambiguity. But I think it's safe to say that is not iray in those promos. Those are not iray shadows. Also, having gone through the process of converting AprilYSH's hair materials to iray several times myself, I found it to be one of the more tricky conversions - so that would be a good reason for DAZ to render her hair promos in 3Delight while almost everything else in the bundles is iray. I've actually been waiting for the opposite thing - an AprilYSH promo that IS rendered in iray. :)

Editing to add: in case I sound totally pro-iray promos, i'm not, I think the products should all ideally have at least one promo from each engine.

that would mean we're seeing Ninive skin in 3de?

I think so, yes.

Maybe an even better example, though, is here:
http://www.daz3d.com/alethya-outfit-textures

Where the paler character is almost certainly Ninive (I'm using that birthmark on her left side as confirmation that it's the same skin.)
:)

ScarletX1969

I'm still on the fence about that head though. But what hair set is used in the FWSA character promo? The one braid hair piece?

JOdel

I'm definitely getting the base. I'm waffling on the bundle.

And I'm wondering about the HD add-on when it shows up. I would think that this base would be a good one to produce that wiry sort of physique that you find in certain types of athletes -- and fantasy thieves and rogues. Oh, yes, and dancers.

AprilYSH

Eustace Scrubb said:

RAMWolff said:

While I don't buy this sort of stuff I have to say April, I looked at your new hair style... HONEY, you outdid yourself. Front, side and back looks really really good. Sometimes artists get lazy at the back of the hair and looks like a single sheet polys transmapped... this is full on gorgeous! Might have to get this one.

I like the Lorelei Mertail and the Arthurian Outfit too... both sets with allot of detail paid to the modeling and textures.

I'm with Richard: this is one of THE BEST character-theme released hairdos yet.

Thank you so much :)

I did the Nimue Hair promos and they were definitely 3Delight renders with all 3delight mats on the hair and the skin as I didn't have a good grasp of Iray yet at the time. As Nadino and Storypilot mentioned, it would be nice if we had a 3Delight render stamp but we don't... so for now the lack of Iray stamp = 3Delight. Unless it's poser and I stuck a couple of unofficial poser stamps in there lol!

In other products others rendered with nimue hair in Iray likely with Iray mats... I don't know if the nimue 3Delight mats look like that rendered in Iray, I have yet to try. One trick I do know is if you apply the iray uber to the hair you have to raise the cutout opacity over 1 (you will have to remove the limits to do this, or a better solution is to go to image editor and set image value over 1 hence leaving the cutout slider alone, see image below) so the wispy transmaps don't look too see through.

Below is a quickie render of just the skin with my basic 3 light setup, Ninive6 is so pretty! :)

My next item will have both iray and 3delight mats and renders, eta June or July. I love Iray now :)

ironcheese

I hope this is not off topic, since the thread title seems to imply this is about Ninive 6 (in general):
this time when Ninive 6 has been released, and contrary to the other latest releases, DAZ has not provided any "metrics" statistics...

Can anybody kindly help me in understanding what size / proportions Ninive fits into?
What I mean is: is she tall and slender (broomstick elf) like Giselle or more a slim but short girl?

Thank you!

JOdel

The Measure Metrics are stated right on the info page for the base (toward the bottom). She's on the shorter end of the scale for a DAZ figure. 5'7". But she's *really* thin; 29.8"/22.3"/33.2". Don't know how this compares to Gisselle, since they didn't include the Measure Metrics when she was released. Gisselle looks about the same degree of thin, but I think she's taller.

Dkgoose

She is pretty, add red hair and I think she might kinda look like Felicia Day

Llola Lane

Here's Ninive as a normal girl next door... I love her look!

The Blurst of Times

JOdel said:

The Measure Metrics are stated right on the info page for the base (toward the bottom). She's on the shorter end of the scale for a DAZ figure. 5'7". But she's *really* thin; 29.8"/22.3"/33.2". Don't know how this compares to Gisselle, since they didn't include the Measure Metrics when she was released. Gisselle looks about the same degree of thin, but I think she's taller.

Ok. I fired up Giselle & Measure Metrics...
Height 5 ft 7 inches (1.70 m)

Bust 29.2 inches (0.74 m)
Waist 20.5 inches (0.52 m)
Low Hip 30.48 inches (0.77 m)