Announcing The Platinum Club Plus [Beta] Program
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But I have to say the points don't work very well for me. Obviously you are going to spend more points than you get and one day, when my points are all spent (I use them rarely, it will take some time), I will not buy there anymore.
The other site's point system isn't perfect but isn't that always the case? It's almost a foregone conclusion that no matter what is offered there will be someone who doesn't like something about it. What works for some does not work for others. Some middle ground has to be reached.
I was simply pointing out that there are other incentives that don't involve guess work and confusion.
I don't know what issues you have with the other site but there are perks. The points are cumulative, they don't expire, and you don't lose the balance if you don't use them all at once.
If I am doing a project that requires a model, I will purchase a model that I need if the cost is under $50. Otherwise, I purchase because the sales, or presentation are FUN. That's how I ended up with so much skimp wear that I will never use. The sales at DAZ have been mega-fun for years. Lately though, they are "meh". It is just not worth my time to firgue out all the scenarios and the actual cost of an item. Maybe, I will just wait until I need something for a project and pay full price.
The main reason, I started buying so much stuff as it is released, 8122 according to DIM, was to support the talented artists.
This morning I have been brainstorming ways to help DAZ and the artists stay profitable and keep the fun factor up. Here are some ideas, but I am sure that the community can come up with more:
Find out what people are planning on rendering (flash polls in store, thread in forum) to develop products that coincide with major trends
Let a few people pay $100-300 to get their idea made. Or put it up for auction. (exciting!) Then everyone else could purchase the model.
Create sales that offer less of a discount, but more fun
Give PC members "clout" in addition to modest discounts.
Let them purchase new releases 1 day before everyone else at the same price as everyone else - extends the release day to 48 hours
Post content of engaging interest in the PC only forum. Maybe a DAZ tip of the month similar to Deke's Techniques at Lynda.com.
I want DAZ to be profitable and in incentivize the artists with consistently high quality content. I am more likely to do that without head-crunchingly complicated sales. I just get bored and wander away from the website when that happens. Time is money after all: If it takes me an hour to figure out how I can save $5, I might not have saved $5.
Wow what a refreshing and nice perspective. I like your ideas and motivations. We are blessed to have members like you.
This should be taken into serious consideration.
This should be taken into serious consideration.
+1
The person who ponies up the beans and commissions the project, gets 3d publishing license (game) version!
I'm not following- why would I pay $100- $300 to have a model made and then let everyone else have it too,unless the money they are paying goes back into MY pocket to reimburse me? Why would I want to pay for something to be made that isn't just mine?
One of the other sites has the make-a-model deal for $100 up and its yours- just yours.
EDIT- And many of us don't care about games, so not an incentive in that respect either.
I think the concept was the benifit of commisioning was that the artist profits while commisioner gets to select subject and name of product, but artist gets creative credit. Price to commisioner is for nonexclusive use because it would be also sold at discount to PC Its not uncommon for exclusive price for a rigged figure can be in the thousands.
There is way more use than 3d publishing than for games. Ref my media links...
Tommorows 3d Studio software may have the ability to publish 3d pospostcards and virtual story book apps to allow you to show off your scenes in 3d. I can do it today with products like SIMLAB comPOSER.
Dont you want your 3d library investment to be lasting and more useful in the future?
I think the concept was the benifit of commisioning was that the artist profits while commisioner gets to select subject and name of product, but artist gets creative credit. Price to commisioner is for nonexclusive use because it would be also sold at discount to PC Its not uncommon for exclusive price for a rigged figure can be in the thousands.
There is way more use than 3d publishing than for games. Ref my media links...
Tommorows 3d Studio software may have the ability to publish 3d pospostcards and virtual story book apps to allow you to show off your scenes in 3d. I can do it today with products like SIMLAB comPOSER.
Dont you want your 3d library investment to be lasting and more useful in the future?
Who gets the copyright? Ideally, it should go the person who commissioned the work and paid the higher price for it. But this isn't an ideal world. I doubt DAZ is going to get into the legal minefield this could create.
Polls are like forums. Only a small percentage respond to them or use them. It's like the continual demand for children, ethnic morphs and textures and more male items. It's been going on since the early days of the forums and little has changed. Look at the G2 line. There are how many female morphs to male morphs?
Ask some of the vendors flat out about making items for children, males and even ethnic forms. Most of them will tell you that sales of these items were poor. All DAZ can go on is it's sales data. If skimpwear product a sells 100 units while male normal clothing b released at the same time sold only 25, what does that tell them?
I have fond memories of the "voting" sales from previous years. I think the campaigns and alliances helped pull people together, and generate a sense of community, and we saw some really creative renders and pitches from the participants.
I'd like to see something like that combined with the new product development idea ParisGranville suggested. Put up a list of theme or product ideas, let people campaign and vote for several days or a week, pick the winner, commission production, and make that the next month's freebie to PC members, and for sale as a DAZ Original to everyone else.
To sweeten the deal, make the PC items for that week also relate to the winning theme, and PC members will have extra incentive to pick those up, as well. :)
Forum participants aren't a very large fraction of the customer base, so this wouldn't necessarily be a good predictor for "best-selling" items, but it would be a fun group participation activity and might be a big draw for the PC.
Another fun benefit might be a series of tutorials resulting in freebie hosting for and by PC members, based on PC products and using DAZ tools. Members who participate in the tutorial and submit a result to the tutorial leader get their result hosted by DAZ, available only as a freebie for other PC members. The resulting freebie that gets downloaded by the most PC members could be granted a small coupon prize, even.
I don't know if DAZ would want to take on these kinds of initiatives, as they would need an investment of time on their part-- I just think these might be fun for customers and would help generate a sense of community.
Edited to add: the themes or content items up for votes could be some of the often-requested items that we've heard don't sell well -- items for males, kids, etc. If they win on a vote, they get made, even though they might not be best-sellers. The vote would be a recognition that some fairly large number of PC members do want the item, and even though they'd get it as the freebie, they wouldn't get some other freebie instead, and they might also pay for related items as PC items.
DAZ like any other company isn't interested in a fraction of it's customer base voting on some theme. They're interested in dollars. How many do we spend and how much do we get back.
PA's aren't DAZ employees. It's not like they can be ordered to work on a certain theme. Most of the PA's when questioned have simply stated that they work on whatever the feel like or suits them. Probably why in the PC there was a set of SF boxes in the midst of the Norse theme.
If the $1.99 PC items are ended then I see no point in remaining a PC member. Viewing the front page today there are two sales on PA shops open to all customers with up to 60% off and one with 50% off. Every couple of days at least 3 new PA stores go on sale - often with up to 60% off. Now I'm all for everyone getting a good deal but what is the point of being a PC member if non-members get regular discounts like this? It's not like PC members get a special deal where we get the 60% off without having to buy new releases as well. We are constrained by the same restrictions as ordinary members in these cases. Except if you're a PC+ member then you get an extra 10% off - big deal!
If DAZ changes PC then I'm done. I'm not interested in pleas that PA's need to get paid more than $1.99 for their products when they regularly participate in these 60% off sales. DAZ get your priorities right and then we'll be talking.
Edit: updated this post to change 'PA' to 'PC' in first sentence.
Just to reiterate, the PAs DON'T get $1.99 for PC products. PAs sell their some items to DAZ as DAZ Originals for a flat buy-out fee. That number is set by DAZ and the PC and we're not privy to it, but the key fact is that the PA IS paid a sum that the PA thinks is a reasonable deal. DAZ then chooses to sell some DOs as PC items, so DAZ has a more than reasonable level of control over both how much the item cost them AND the decision to sell it for $1.99. If they feel items are too expensive for the $$$ returned on each investment, then there are far more cost-effective ways of managing that issue. The only place where the PAs re-enter the picture is when one starts talking about adding discounts of XX% on top of the PA's normal store price for PC customers. Under those conditions, the PC+ is clearly less beneficial to the PAs than the original PC UNLESS sales of PA product are significantly increased in volume by virtue of being involved in the PC+. That's the area where the math doesn't seem to work out to me, as there are already plenty of sales where PA product is discounted more substantially than the PC+, while the original PC leaves the PAs with no liabilities whatsoever.
The PC is separate from the mainstream DAZ 3D store, and the PC buys it's own content, and does have to at least break even.
Buy any new release and get 60% off Magix 101 store except new releases. Sounds great but if you're a regular customer who's bought virtually all of Magix 101's products over the years except the new releases then it's not possible to participate. It seems like the more you own the less possible it is to take advantage of these sales. It makes no sense marketing wise that the more you buy the harder it is to take advantage of sales and discounts. How does that reward long term customers or encourage brand loyalty?
Ah... how does that English saying go?
"Eat your cake and keep it."
That's how this reading this thread feels. :-)
ROFL sorry... had a good laugh with this one... now back to my continual lurking :P
ROFL sorry... had a good laugh with this one... now back to my continual lurking :P
Wanting the sun shine on the threshing floor, while it rains on the turnip field.
That's not quite correct. DAZ seems quite willing to reward long term customers who don't buy very much. After seeing how fast DAZ dropped their drawers on the Gen 5 sets, I finally got smart with Gen 6 and have only purchased two Pro Bundles (Teen Josie and Aiko 6) on their release. For all the others I've simply opted out and waited for the prices to plummet below $30 for the Pro Bundles and $20 for the starters... which has worked pretty well for M6 Pro ($21.87), Horse 2 Pro ($28), Girl 6 Starter ($14) and Big cat 2 ($5.19) while V6 Pro and the Gia 6 Starter bundle would have been the priciest at $79.85 for the two combined... . if it hadn't been mostly paid with coupons, discounted GCs and store credit for a price protection that put the "real" price for the pair closer to about $40.
And as nice as Gianni, Giselle and now Lee may look, I'll just wait on similar deals for those as well. Too bad that means I won't be buying any of the dedicated characters, clothes and accessories for them until then either. Great marketing strategy DAZ! You've save me a bundle!
That's not quite correct. DAZ seems quite willing to reward long term customers who don't buy very much. After seeing how fast DAZ dropped their drawers on the Gen 5 sets, I finally got smart with Gen 6 and have only purchased two Pro Bundles (Teen Josie and Aiko 6) on their release. For all the others I've simply opted out and waited for the prices to plummet below $30 for the Pro Bundles and $20 for the starters... which has worked pretty well for M6 Pro ($21.87), Horse 2 Pro ($28), Girl 6 Starter ($14) and Big cat 2 ($5.19) while V6 Pro and the Gia 6 Starter bundle would have been the priciest at $79.85 for the two combined... . if it hadn't been mostly paid with coupons, discounted GCs and store credit for a price protection that put the "real" price for the pair closer to about $40.
And as nice as Gianni, Giselle and now Lee may look, I'll just wait on similar deals for those as well. Too bad that means I won't be buying any of the dedicated characters, clothes and accessories for them until then either. Great marketing strategy DAZ! You've save me a bundle!
I bought Gianni Pro bundle for $27 a few days ago but had to buy another product I didn't really want for $18 so it really cost $45. There are ways and means but it's a torturous business trying to work out the best discounts. The bargains seem fewer and farther between.
Yeah, if the other item is something I want it would be one thing, but the current plan of having to buy a waffle iron to get a deal on a pair of pants makes me wonder if the marketing people are even looking at the products when they make up the ads. As it is, while Gianni's a nice figure I can't get past the fact that there's only one shirt and two pairs of shoes in the entire Pro Bundle... there really ought to be a discount just for that. :long:
I bought Gianni Pro bundle for $27 a few days ago but had to buy another product I didn't really want for $18 so it really cost $45. There are ways and means but it's a torturous business trying to work out the best discounts. The bargains seem fewer and farther between.
I took advantage of that sale also. I also added my PC coupon to it. That was a big spending day for me. I had no problem finding items I wanted to put in my cart... in fact, I had to take items out. Not including the GC (10% discount), I spent about $49 that day, but picked up about $154 worth of stuff (again, not including the GC).
Then why is not the PC content exclusive and not offered as "freebies" in by one get one promotions like http://www.daz3d.com/sales-promotions#freebies ?
Then why is not the PC content exclusive and not offered as "freebies" in by one get one promotions like http://www.daz3d.com/sales-promotions#freebies ?
Yes, the PC is separate alright. I seem to remember that the last time PC and Value items were half off, PC members weren't allowed the same discount.
Over the past year or so, I've begun to wonder just exactly what I'm paying for. Members fork out $70 annually, $24 quarterly or $8 monthly.
When it began there was the 30% discount on DAZ Originals (excluding PC items, GC's, and resell items), a $5 voucher good for that month (again excluded PC items, could be used fully on any non-PC DO, half on any PA item, not sure about resell items and non-cumulative), a Welcome Pack, and full access to the PC catalog of which all items in said catalog were $1.99. If you were an annual member, you received the added bonus of a $25 voucher. Maybe I missed something. If I did, add it in.
The first to go was the annual voucher. It wasn't quite so noticeable as DAZ did offer $25 vouchers during the PC anniversary for annual renewals. It was somewhere in all the mess that DAZ boosted the voucher from $5 to $6. Not that it made much difference with the store change over. Once they went to the new store software, vouchers were a thing of the past. Everything is a coupon now. Single use and use it all or lose it.
So, I know what I began with and what I had somewhere in the middle. If I understand the Regular PC new members no longer have to pay the start up fee (why? if older members had to and those that chose to leave for an extended time had to why should not new members as well), you have to join for a minimum of 3 months, you get a $6 coupon (excludes PC items, the PA part still eludes me so I try to stick to non-PC DO's wherever possible, one use only and prices must exceed the coupon value), you still get the PC discount and what...oh, yes, a free item once a week and another free item once a month. Only if members wait a couple of months, these free items will end up free to everyone as part of one Promo or another.
I read the FAQ. As always, there are holes it it large enough to drive a Mack truck through.
Those who leave for more than 30 days don't have to pay the start-up fee. Remember that you used to be able to sign up on a monthly basis -- the start-up fee was to prevent people from signing up for just one month. Now new or expired members have to commit to 3 months; continuing members can go monthly.
As you well know, in the olden days you had to pay $70 or $100 for a model, and sometimes textures were extra as well. Should new members not be allowed to get lower prices than that because older members had to pay those prices?
Yes, the PC is separate alright. I seem to remember that the last time PC and Value items were half off, PC members weren't allowed the same discount.
Over the past year or so, I've begun to wonder just exactly what I'm paying for. Members fork out $70 annually, $24 quarterly or $8 monthly.
When it began there was the 30% discount on DAZ Originals (excluding PC items, GC's, and resell items), a $5 voucher good for that month (again excluded PC items, could be used fully on any non-PC DO, half on any PA item, not sure about resell items and non-cumulative), a Welcome Pack, and full access to the PC catalog of which all items in said catalog were $1.99. If you were an annual member, you received the added bonus of a $25 voucher. Maybe I missed something. If I did, add it in.
The first to go was the annual voucher. It wasn't quite so noticeable as DAZ did offer $25 vouchers during the PC anniversary for annual renewals. It was somewhere in all the mess that DAZ boosted the voucher from $5 to $6. Not that it made much difference with the store change over. Once they went to the new store software, vouchers were a thing of the past. Everything is a coupon now. Single use and use it all or lose it.
So, I know what I began with and what I had somewhere in the middle. If I understand the Regular PC new members no longer have to pay the start up fee (why? if older members had to and those that chose to leave for an extended time had to why should not new members as well), you have to join for a minimum of 3 months, you get a $6 coupon (excludes PC items, the PA part still eludes me so I try to stick to non-PC DO's wherever possible, one use only and prices must exceed the coupon value), you still get the PC discount and what...oh, yes, a free item once a week and another free item once a month. Only if members wait a couple of months, these free items will end up free to everyone as part of one Promo or another.
I read the FAQ. As always, there are holes it it large enough to drive a Mack truck through.
I think the FIRST thing to go was the annual sign-up product bundles. Other than that I think you've got most of the key events right.
As for the drops in prices for the PC itself... well, as much as some might not like to admit it, the actual value of the content in the PC has dropped significantly over the last several years due to the simple fact that the larger proportion of product is for Gen 4 and earlier. At least during the Gen 5 period most Gen 4 clothing could be autofit to Genesis without having to purchase second party expansion products, but with Gen 6 one has to invest a significant chunk of change in order to even use V4 & M4 textures and clothes on G2F and G2M. The numbers speak for themselves: approximately one half of the 2671 items in the PC are clothing items, but there are only a little over 200 that work on the G2 figures without add-ons. By comparison, there are approximately 700 clothing items that currently work reasonably well, straight out of the box, on Genesis, and even when Gen5 first launched, there were still more products that worked on it than the current rate of production will produce for the G2s over the next several years. And that's assuming they don't bring out a Genesis 3 before 2016.
I liked those sales too. Then it actually felt like a club. One didn't always get the desired item, but it was always fun watching the charts and trying to get undecided to support your desired item.
Seems like a forever ago.
Not knowing how many PC members there are I have no way of of knowing what the PC brings in, but it's easy math 1k members = 8k monthly, 2k members, 16k$ monthly, etc. then multiply x12 for annual take. While Daz is trying to chop it's club, other places are trying to grow theirs. So they must either think they'll make money, know they will, or be delusional. If Daz can't, it's unfair of us as customers to ask them to continue the PC.
Might not be such a bad idea to just kill the current PC, let us save our membership fees, let Daz save it's freebie outlay and mull it's options - then come back after 3 - 6 months and either offer a new version of PC (without having to cut current members perks because there weren't any) to anyone interested or tell us they are happier without it.
Though I was pretty excited when I joined 6 - 7 years ago, I'd be good with whatever Daz decided at this point.
Not knowing how many PC members there are I have no way of of knowing what the PC brings in, but it's easy math 1k members = 8k monthly, 2k members, 16k$ monthly, etc. then multiply x12 for annual take. While Daz is trying to chop it's club, other places are trying to grow theirs. So they must either think they'll make money, know they will, or be delusional. If Daz can't, it's unfair of us as customers to ask them to continue the PC.
Might not be such a bad idea to just kill the current PC, let us save our membership fees, let Daz save it's freebie outlay and mull it's options - then come back after 3 - 6 months and either offer a new version of PC (without having to cut current members perks because there weren't any) to anyone interested or tell us they are happier without it.
Though I was pretty excited when I joined 6 - 7 years ago, I'd be good with whatever Daz decided at this point.
A lot of these discussions often exclude the biggest perk - that is, new, high quality content heavily discounted.
If the PC was shelved, so would the content.. I guess the question then becomes, would everyone be happier saving their monthly subs and just paying more for their content? Probably not, given the tone of this thread.
That's purely devils advocate stuff though - the PC will be in existence for a long while yet ;)
A lot of these discussions often exclude the biggest perk - that is, new, high quality content heavily discounted.
If the PC was shelved, so would the content.. I guess the question then becomes, would everyone be happier saving their monthly subs and just paying more for their content? Probably not, given the tone of this thread.
That's purely devils advocate stuff though - the PC will be in existence for a long while yet ;)
Yeah, but it keeps getting worse and worse over time. Two years ago, they weren't making enough money with the PC and something had to be done. Now, they're not making enough money with the PC and something has to be done. In two years, they won't be making enough money and something will have to be done. etc.
There's a rhythm here... and what needs to be done each time is just trimmin' the PC benies back a bit.
Rather than Daz giving the PC and it's membership the "death of a thousand cuts", perhaps it's just time to administer the coup de grace, putting the PC and the members out of Daz's misery.
Giving the PC club a rest would let both the members and the company ruminate on if the club was worth bothering with. If the members missed it enough, any offer Daz made to restart it would be enough for the then PC-deprived membership. If Daz found out it really did do better without the PC, it could just leave it shut down. If Daz missed the dues money, they could come back with a reasonable offer that'd make them happy, the members happy and not have to screw with us this way every couple of years.
Yeah, it'd be hard on everyone, but hey, we're Dazzies, we'd survive. And if the PC did, it might well feel like home again.