Announcing The Platinum Club Plus [Beta] Program
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I, as many others, love to save $$$
But as an artist and a new media nut, I also love to have the newest gimmicks and the same goes for 3D content.
As soon as a new generation or technique comes out, I love exploring it and feel at where we at right now in technologies.
The PC club enables me to jump right in with a nice discount.
On some items I wait because I have a budget limit, but in the way I work I feel that keeping up with technology is part of what I need to keep going.
That's why I love being part of beta and testing groups so I can stand with both feet in what is happening and to be able to be part of that process.
I love the HD step that DAZ made, it's innovating and I dig that.
Again, I feel that the PC club makes me be part of what is happening in the DAZ kitchens, may it be with early previews or getting a discount on new stuff.
A couple of points of information:
The content bundles were introduced a few anniversaries in, they were not present from the outset (and a lot of the items were old DAZ, or even Zygote, freebies and produced the same objections as we are hearing now from established users feeling the perks were for newcomers only).
It isn't necessary to buy the Victoria 4 for G2F/Michael 4 fro G2M sets to use older content with Genesis 2, just AutoFit to Genesis, save as an asset, AutoFit that asset to G2. The V/M4 for G2F/M set cuts out a step but it isn't vital. Similarly if you have V5 for Genesis you can use the map Transfer tool to convert textures with no additional outlay.
Not going to argue about the bundles, I was just pointing out that those were the first thing to go. As for the rest, in reverse order:
1 – V5 isn’t a free item. Her list price is $39.95 and she’s $27.96 with the PC discount unless there’s a stacking sale. If you're just joining now it's in the same price range to buy the PA produced add-ons.
2 – The double-step conversion from Gen 4 to Genesis to the G2s is hardly a cure all. It works well for some articles of clothing, but frequently results in wonky shapes and noticeably distorted buttons and other fine details on others… and needless to say the shoes are almost always complete write offs, dresses hit or miss and it adds a considerable level of complexity to the entire workflow. Remember, for many of DAZ's customers, these are basically digital Barbies, so KISS is usually the best option whenever possible.
3 – Moreover, that still doesn’t take into account the fact that that still leaves most of the Gen 3 and older product out of the picture without buying yet more add-ons to use, (assuming that they even exist yet or ever will.) And I refrained previously from pointing out the increasing archaic-ness of many of the non-clothing items in the PC.
No matter how you look at it, the increasing obsolescence of the older DAZ figures limits the usability of a large amount of product that’s in the PC unless the customer has invested in an additional support products. One can “yes, but…” and quibble on the details all one wants, but it doesn’t change the basic truth of the statement. Michael Jordon was once the greatest basketball player on Earth and while one can argue as to whether LeBron James is a better player within an historical context, that doesn’t change which one an NBA team would choose to hire as a player given the choice of the two of them as they are today. Thus it goes with Gen4... wonderful and marvelous in it's time, but looking a little slower and creakier next to the new whiz kids.
And finally, just to put things in perspective:
4 – I think what a lot of the people here, especially the old dinosaurs who came in around the same time that I did, keep missing is something that DAZ marketing clearly does understand, which is that the lifeblood of this business is dependent on enticing NEW customers to join and buy. After all, once DAZ has sold a particular product to a customer, there’s no need for him/her to ever buy that particular product again, and if someone has been a PC member for six years and STILL hasn’t bought a given older item, the statistical odds of that occurring aren’t going to get any better unless the price is dropped even further. And a NEW customer, coming in, is going to be far more likely to buy whatever’s newest and flashy, so they’re going to be less inclined to have an interest in the older product as well. Of course, that doesn’t just apply to PC product, which is why a huge chunk of the V4/M4 product has been at fire-sale prices for the last month and a half. And since the value of a significant portion of the current PC library is going to keep dropping as time goes on, that leaves DAZ with two alternatives: 1 – increase the number of newer products available to those in the PC or 2 – adjust the price of PC membership to reflect the new perceived value of the existing library. We’ve already seen #2, and the PC+ seems to be an attempt to do the former by leveraging the strength of the PAs. And, to be clear, I don’t have a problem with the basic concept. Rather, my opinion is that the actual design and implementation of the PC+ beta has been extremely ham-fisted due to DAZ’s usual problems with poor communication and a store that’s clearly not up to the task of doing everything that they keep asking of it. A more rational roll out plan would have been to beta each aspect of the proposed PC+ separately for a shorter period before combining them into one "you're stuck for six weeks" take it or leave it option. As it is, the data that's been collected is going to be tainted, thereby reducing the odds that any decision made based off it is actually going to be the best possible solution going forward.
A bit of an exaggeration. The original Dragon cost me $75.00 but that was back in Zygote days, in the '90's. I seriously don't remember prices being that high since DAZ because DAZ widened the market and thus brought them down.
As to your general comment, of course new members shouldn't have to pay what old members paid ages ago, after all we've had use of the products for all that time. But the time period within which the price falls due to sales or free offers for which we old ones had paid for the privilege of getting something free shouldn't be as short as a few weeks. That's a slap in the face.
I'm willing to pay a bit more for stuff at DAZ vs elsewhere for something of similar interest or quality because I fully support DAZ Studio and know my willingness to shop here helps maintain and develop my favorite app in the universe. But I also understand DAZ has to keep all customers happy but that does include the loyal ones as well.
The declining value of the catalogue seems an odd argument to me - arguably, some of the older content may well be of little interest to new users but there's more newer content now than there was when the PC began (even though a tranche of back-catalogue by the founders was added to the PC at launch). The range of the "current" items, by exacting criteria that discount items for previous generations unless they can be freely converted to the current, may fluctuate as figure generations come in and get replaced in due course but it certainly isn't presently at its lowest ebb.
It's all getting a bit off topic.. but one thing I'm confused about..
We now have a topic of discussion here about "the actual value of the content in the PC has dropped significantly over the last several years due to the simple fact that the larger proportion of product is for Gen 4 and earlier." and a few posts that way (in the thread about orphan items) we have a conversation about how we shouldn't be vaulting any of the old content because it's part of the PC and as such ring-fenced from such things..
Edited to add - my point is that the usual response to any potential vaulting - or items being removed from the PC (regardless of the factors behind them) clearly show that people value the older content (and overall PC catalogue) just as much as the new.
I still use a LOT of generation 4 stuff, and buy it weekly. Saying it has less value isn't the way I feel about it, and no one speaks for me.
You are missing the key dimension to the problem. I think the "old timers" have been in the business of supplying content for 2d renders so long you forgot about the full potential. Consider your efforts like Gold Ore, and your business the mine: When a miner digs out ore, loose gold is separated and sold. However there is a lot more hidden gold in the ore than loose gold. So to mines will further process that ore, again and again if needed and left over product rock as railroad fill. The back catalog of DO's are unprocessed tailing. The new content are shiny nuggets.
By making small adjustments by incrementally broadening the usage rights and packaging at each release tier you can capture many more opportunist and continually develop the market as the product is adopted by more platforms. 3d real time publishing you cant deny its here.
I think a couple people sound like a broken record ... and for some part it is not even directly PC relevant but a completely different discussion.
First, when the PC first started there was far less product on the market period, and the average price was generally much higher. Would a company be successful marketing DVDS for $79 and up based on the argument that that was once the price that movies on VHS films originally were? No, of course not. It's all about the relative value compared to the rest of the market. And it's not just that I can go to multiple sites on any given weekend and buy complete V4/M4 character sets, props and sets for a few dollars, but also the fact that many of the newer items in the PC are re-dos of older items. So, unless you just like to be a completest, there's less reason to be interested in the older product if you've got the new version for the figures you use.. For example, there are exactly four clothing choices for G2M in the PC, of which all but one (the Viking outfit) are duplicates of Genesis product, which automatically invokes the rules of line extension... ie, duplication of a product or brand tends to sub-divide an existing market rather than create a new one. The best analogy would be in cars, where the introduction of this year's model makes last years automatically worth less, even if they are essentially the same car.
Yep, they seem to be contradictory positions. Welcome to the wonderful world of merchandizing. :) About the only elucidation I can volunteer on the issue is that the people who are most likely to be bothered by the deletion of an item are the ones who've thought about purchasing it in the past and haven't. And that's the fundamental issue I think most of these threads revolve around: there's the point of view of people who've been in the PC for XXX number of years, and then there's the point of view of someone who hasn't yet joined the PC. They're not the same and they're never going to be, but those who DO join the PC will most likely eventually drift towards the POV of the established base.
Same here! Love old stuff - I buy Generation 4 stuff all the time and given a choice between gen4 and gen6, I'll take 4 every time. I love Generation 3 stuff too, it's just taking me a long time to collect everything I want. I've been using DAZ studio for about 3 years now and I'm nowhere near done buying the old gen3 and gen4 items that I want. There are a lot of old items I want and I have a very small budget - that's why the $1.99 items are vital to my being a PC member.
So do I, in fact most of what I've bought in the last two months has been Gen 4, thanks to the crazy sales. However, given that the Gen 5 stuff was getting less of a markdown than the Gen 4 stuff, the most logical extrapolation is that someone in sales felt that the Gen 4 materials needed a bigger goose. Whether that's simply because Gen4's been better picked over by the older customers (ie: fewer products left to buy for the simple reason that everyone's bought most of what they want) or because newer customers are less interested, or a combination of both, is anyone's guess.
But they are doing great limiting their customer base to Studio/Genesis users. Sales of the new items supposedly have never been better, or atleast that is what is being said here. Which makes me wonder what all of this is about. The pc club is not making enough profit, maybe it isn't the club? Maybe there are other reasons, a look at the bigger picture might make things clearer.
Me too, I'm a Poser 7 user. The 4 seriers will be the last Daz people I ever get to use - I'm good with that though. There's terra-terra-gigs of stuff out there for them.
"But they are doing great limiting their customer base to Studio/Genesis users."
That's a good point, as an older Poser version user, much of the new stuff is of no use. Many vendors are building everything they make to require DSON or D/S and quite often the freebies are useless to me.
I wondered once before if they were trying to streamline their market to D/S - Genesis users only. If they are, they should just tell us. We'd be understanding.
Thanks so much for making me add things to my wishlist! LOL
I never saw those Deco Redux furniture before.
If you want a good laugh, type Deco Redux Chairs in the DAZ search engine. Glamour Girls was the only thing that came up on the page. SHEESH. Then if you do the same with Google, you get http://www.daz3d.com/deco-redux which is correct. I was checking to see if I had them (I do.)
If you want a good laugh, type Deco Redux Chairs in the DAZ search engine. Glamour Girls was the only thing that came up on the page. SHEESH. Then if you do the same with Google, you get http://www.daz3d.com/deco-redux which is correct. I was checking to see if I had them (I do.)
you have it - don't give it to me then .
did you see the Dr. ?
Me too, I'm a Poser 7 user. The 4 seriers will be the last Daz people I ever get to use - I'm good with that though. There's terra-terra-gigs of stuff out there for them.
JoePublic over at R'osity exported V6's mesh and put V4's rig into her; you could do that in Poser 7 by exporting the mesh from Studio. He had to tweak a few falloff zones a bit. However, transferring the morphs might be problematic, although now that I think of it, Morph Manager from a cr2 exported from Studio might work. Of course, any morph that used animated joint centers wouldn't work properly....
Thanks so much for making me add things to my wishlist! LOL
I never saw those Deco Redux furniture before.
Me too. Got it on my wishlist now so I can locate it when I'm ready to buy. I like to add $1.99 items to my low-cost orders.
JoePublic over at R'osity exported V6's mesh and put V4's rig into her; you could do that in Poser 7 by exporting the mesh from Studio. He had to tweak a few falloff zones a bit. However, transferring the morphs might be problematic, although now that I think of it, Morph Manager from a cr2 exported from Studio might work. Of course, any morph that used animated joint centers wouldn't work properly....
Is that V6 mesh-exporting allowed? I thought it was forbidden in the EULA...
Re Distributing it is against the EULA
And once again this whole discussion is drifting well away from the Topic of this thread.
I best not...(Poser dig removed)
Your suggestions are actually very pertinent however I wouldn't limit to either of those target apps that way the fate and of a content developers success not contingent on the health of a narrow market or single business entity.
Greetings,
Um. {glances at PC forum}Not sure how long you haven't been a Platinum Club member. This perk is still there. They've missed a few, but it's very definitely still there. One clue is that if you look at the new release threads when they first get moved to the Commons, you'll see a lot of people already talking about them.
-- Morgan
JoePublic over at R'osity exported V6's mesh and put V4's rig into her; you could do that in Poser 7 by exporting the mesh from Studio. He had to tweak a few falloff zones a bit. However, transferring the morphs might be problematic, although now that I think of it, Morph Manager from a cr2 exported from Studio might work. Of course, any morph that used animated joint centers wouldn't work properly....
Thank you for the kindly tip. I've been a poser user since poser 2, but try as I might, I've never been able to get D/S to run well on my machines or my brain to get a feel for it.
Thanks again for the thought.