A dumb English rant

PerttiA

fred9803 said:

richardandtracy said:

 ...compliance with norms of grammar and useage improve speed & precision of communications.

That's the problem for me. When sentences (or phrases) aren't grammatically correct, I need to re-read them several times to get what is actually being said.

With "You design. We tech" I'm thinking did they mean "teach" and leave out the "a"? That would make more sense. Bad spelling or bad grammar? Not an efficient use of language.

There are also a lot of people to whom english is not their native language, they can understand as long as the message is somewhat following the "rules", but have hard time understanding if the rules are abused.

Ps. Should of...

Gordig

Someone should of learned them to English good.

Serene Night

I like it. To me it is catchy.

I tend to not obsess about people using grammar specifically. I guess I deal with a lot of non English speakers so I'm less rigid that sort of thing.

Sevrin

droidy001 said:

Oh and while we're on rants. Putting "So" at the beginning of every sentence. And one I think may be quite particular to the north of England. Adding "me" to the end of a sentence. This is mostly used in verbal communication. I hate that me.

That's Franglais, or at least a Gallicism.  Adding personal pronouns to the end of a sentence for emphasis is common in French as in "J'aime ça, moi!" or "T'es fou, toi?"  Alors, that's where that comes from.  Blame the Normans.

Ostadan

Slogans are not prose.

Diomede

I love a good rant.  I love rants independent of agreeing or disagreeing with them.  Well done, @SnowSultan

Here is the great Stephen Fry giving a rant on the same subject.  He disagrees with the OP, but I am offering it for its rantfulness (see what I did there?), not for its content.

Please continue to give voice to your discontent!  And remember, listening to a good rant requires neither agreement nor suffering in silence.

https://www.facebook.com/bbctwo/videos/stephen-fry-on-the-power-of-language-what-makes-us-human/457597215017351/

LeatherGryphon

Ostadan said:

Slogans are not prose.

But if that's the majority of your exposure, then that's what you learn, oblivious to the subtlety, the distinction between noun, verb, and their corresponding modifiers.  Leaving you kicking up silt as you swim in the shallows.  Clarity is obscured.

It's all very well and good that people who are experienced with language can recognize the simplification and extract a possible meaning, but without the experience it's like a baby human raised by wolves.  Functional but uncivilized.

To add another example;  I've learned to adapt to the missing 'ly' ending to adverbs.  Example:  "She was behaving smart."  Instead of "smartly".  But the hairs on my spine rise a little when I hear it and especially when I catch myself doing it.  

Byrdie

"You design. We tech." :headscratch: "You Tarzan. Me Jane?" 

Ron Knights

It's just another case of bad English. For many years I've gritted my teeth when hearing someone say "I'm like," rather than "I said", etc. Then there are people who use DAZ, rather than DAZ Studio. The list goes on.

WendyLuvsCatz

the fact so many cannot spell ridiculous annoys me, see lots of cases on this forum.

It comes from ridicule, do they spell that redekle, redicle or any of the other strange versions I see?

scorpio

LeatherGryphon said:

Ostadan said:

Slogans are not prose.

But if that's the majority of your exposure, then that's what you learn, oblivious to the subtlety, the distinction between noun, verb, and their corresponding modifiers.  Leaving you kicking up silt as you swim in the shallows.  Clarity is obscured.

It's all very well and good that people who are experienced with language can recognize the simplification and extract a possible meaning, but without the experience it's like a baby human raised by wolves.  Functional but uncivilized.

To add another example;  I've learned to adapt to the missing 'ly' ending to adverbs.  Example:  "She was behaving smart."  Instead of "smartly".  But the hairs on my spine rise a little when I hear it and especially when I catch myself doing it.  

It would be interesting to hear what Chaucer has to say on the way the English language is used today compared to his day.

markgoode77

scorpio said:

LeatherGryphon said:

Ostadan said:

Slogans are not prose.

But if that's the majority of your exposure, then that's what you learn, oblivious to the subtlety, the distinction between noun, verb, and their corresponding modifiers.  Leaving you kicking up silt as you swim in the shallows.  Clarity is obscured.

It's all very well and good that people who are experienced with language can recognize the simplification and extract a possible meaning, but without the experience it's like a baby human raised by wolves.  Functional but uncivilized.

To add another example;  I've learned to adapt to the missing 'ly' ending to adverbs.  Example:  "She was behaving smart."  Instead of "smartly".  But the hairs on my spine rise a little when I hear it and especially when I catch myself doing it.  

It would be interesting to hear what Chaucer has to say on the way the English language is used today compared to his day.

Yebbut his day was before they invented grammar and spelling innit?

maclean

One of the major points George Orwell made in 1984 was that the use of language and certain words isn't just about communicating. It also defines your attitude.

How can one man write 2 books (1984 & Animal Farm) and be right about so many things?

maikdecker

Well for me everybody can use a language in any way he/she/it wants to. Of course I see it as my own right though, to give that much respect to this person, that I deem proper for his use of language.

Hylas

Do not understand the hateration in this dancery...

Langauge is a living thing and it changes constantly. None of us talk like the average person would have 100 or even just 50 years ago. It's fine.

Principles aside, I personally don't love the slogan, but mostly because it's kinda inaccurate - we're not really designing in DAZ, are we? And admittedly there's something a little obnoxious about companies using slang, there's a whiff of that here. But I don't think verbing a noun per se is a problem.

Drip

Hylas said:

Do not understand the hateration in this dancery...

Langauge is a living thing and it changes constantly. None of us talk like the average person would have 100 or even just 50 years ago. It's fine.

Principles aside, I personally don't love the slogan, but mostly because it's kinda inaccurate - we're not really designing in DAZ, are we? And admittedly there's something a little obnoxious about companies using slang, there's a whiff of that here. But I don't think verbing a noun per se is a problem.

At least they still refrained from calling Daz Studio an app..

Sevrin

Drip said:

Hylas said:

Do not understand the hateration in this dancery...

Langauge is a living thing and it changes constantly. None of us talk like the average person would have 100 or even just 50 years ago. It's fine.

Principles aside, I personally don't love the slogan, but mostly because it's kinda inaccurate - we're not really designing in DAZ, are we? And admittedly there's something a little obnoxious about companies using slang, there's a whiff of that here. But I don't think verbing a noun per se is a problem.

At least they still refrained from calling Daz Studio an app..

Or male users Daz Studs.

hjake

SnowSultan said:

"You design. We tech"

That's the new slogan on the front page of DAZ? Jeez, when are we going to stop using nouns as verbs? The first one in recent memory that I noticed was Red Robin's "Let's Burger". Then came "Vitamin better" and "Brain better". Man..."brain better" makes mine hurt. There's a ton more that I can't recall at the moment, but this sort of thing just makes me think we're all getting dumber and that in thirty years, we'll be communicating entirely either in grunts or emojis.

Of course this won't affect my shopping here or my opinion of DAZ, I guess it's just something we could discuss rather than finding endless things to complain about whatever bundle we got this week.   ;)

arggg ... humph .... u reed dis' ....  The Sense of Style by Steven Pinker  - itt mayck ewe feal bettur.

The Blurst of Times

DON'T CALL ME STUPID.

/best English rant

hjake

Sevrin said:

Drip said:

Hylas said:

Do not understand the hateration in this dancery...

Langauge is a living thing and it changes constantly. None of us talk like the average person would have 100 or even just 50 years ago. It's fine.

Principles aside, I personally don't love the slogan, but mostly because it's kinda inaccurate - we're not really designing in DAZ, are we? And admittedly there's something a little obnoxious about companies using slang, there's a whiff of that here. But I don't think verbing a noun per se is a problem.

At least they still refrained from calling Daz Studio an app..

Or male users Daz Studs.

I think that's DAZ Spuds

WendyLuvsCatz

DAZtards

davidwski_16294691f0

I would say that rants like this are a little bit self-righteous. While I secretly pride myself with my usage of language and grammar, I've worked in manufacturing management for a long time, around people from 30-40 different countries over the years.

When someone calls in late and says "It's Traffic", or that they "cooked it good" when reporting a successful furnace batch, I get the point.

Something to consider; there's always been a first time for every word or concept ever expressed in any language.

You ain't gunna right it. Why complain?

DisparateDreamer

1gecko said:

Well, I must weigh in on the "It is *wrong*" side of the argument!

It is not (by definition - look it up) communication. The people using it are not using a 'shared method of conveying thoughts, ideas, queries, or commands' (or however you want to phrase it), even though using words of the same language which *have* definitions. Can people *guess* what you mean - maybe, but they do not *know* what you mean. This, as well as improper usage of a type of word, makes it NOT language, and a sign of ignorance (however popular, ignorance does not make 'wrong' into 'right' or 'false' into 'true' - and is half the reason you cannot believe anything you read in social media; trolls being the other half).

Some of you may be old enough to remember "fo shizzle" - a term which Snoop Dogg used back in the '80s (I think) that was enthusiastically adopted by most of the public - and if so you probably also remember how a person was ridiculed for NOT accepting someone else's using it!  For those who don't remember (and be so thankful of your ignorance in this matter), it was basically something he said when he was too stoned to respond to an interviewer's question and could not remember the words he wanted to use/say.  It was used to mean whatever you wanted or implied it to mean - any noun, verb, adverb, adjective; anything.  It was a bunch of adults(?) running around substituting the equivalent of "Smurfy" for words and thinking they were cool - and the same type of people were defending it as a 'legitmate' part of language.

The topic in question falls into the same set of problems and issues - it is not communication; it is assumption (even if you are not hung up on 'rules' - which are there for a reason).  And for those who would still defend it as 'harmless': I will always remember the day I was walking into the hospital (a friend had just given birth and I was going to visit/congratulate) and I passed a group of upset and angry people speaking extremely thick/broken 'street-lingo' - so thick it took me a moment to understand them.  As I waited to cross the street, I overheard what was wrong: their friend (and one of them's brother) had just *died* because they could not communicate with the doctor or nurses!  Yes, his problem was serious, but not THAT serious - but they didn't understand what was being asked of them and the staff couldn't understand their responses - and so, from what I could put together, the wrong medicine was administered and the guy died. I asked around a bit inside, and while no actual answers were given (for obvious reasons), that is what had happened. A man/boy *died* because 'good enough' actually wasn't and after a lifetime of speaking in that manner, the people couldn't understand.

If you are not communicating, it is not language - it is just 'grunting' and pointing to a rock (or equivalent).

Actually there has been legal studies done on the effects of language and race (and the justice inequalities because the witness could not be understood, and so on). But to the people who speak that lingo, they DO understand each other. It's way more than just 'street lingo' and legal stuff is being built around it.  Foreigners have had similar things happen when they didn't have a translator. 

Personally I adore language that gets creative and one of the beautiful things about American English in particular is that is a melting pot of linguistic expression and is ever evolving, lingo, grammar, spelling, vocabulary, pronunciation, vernacular, and more. It's not a static field and never will be!

I have always loved poetry, for example, that swapped verbs for nouns and nouns for verbs.

Just recently, I commented to a friend that with all this covid stuff and distancing, "I forgot how to human!" :) But the intent of the phrase was both to be silly, abuse grammar, and tongue in cheek share how mentally and emotionally we can be affected by distance- all by changing a noun to a verb. It wouldn't have been as fun to say "I forgot how to act human and speak very clearly as a person." ;)

and I have a favorite tshirt ... a deadpool one ... "I cannot brain today, I has the dumb" which makes me chuckle because its the way I feel when I don't get adequate coffee.  Language is just fun. 

hjake

 

davidwski_16294691f0 said:

When someone calls in late and says "It's Traffic", or that they "cooked it good" when reporting a successful furnace batch, I get the point.

Something to consider; there's always been a first time for every word or concept ever expressed in any language.

You ain't gunna right it. Why complain?

The introduction in Steven Pinker's books says something similar. For more than 200 hundred years each older generation bemoaned that the young generation was destroying the English language. It is a well written book and I recommend it.

NylonGirl

While I sight what they're speech, I don't understanding why it mattering so much. I mean it isn't the first clock they tragedied a site like redikule.

nicstt

Richard Haseltine said:

It may or may not work for you (I'm not a fan) but the decision to use a noun as a verb - especially in a slogan - is not inherently "dumb". By all means demur, and stick to the previously established norms, but don't simply assume that those who pursue another path are doing so because their command of English is lacking.

Actually Richard, it's more a case of wonder what marketing folks (not aimed at Daz but the demographic as a whole) think of their customers.

LeatherGryphon

nicstt said:

Richard Haseltine said:

It may or may not work for you (I'm not a fan) but the decision to use a noun as a verb - especially in a slogan - is not inherently "dumb". By all means demur, and stick to the previously established norms, but don't simply assume that those who pursue another path are doing so because their command of English is lacking.

Actually Richard, it's more a case of wonder what marketing folks (not aimed at Daz but the demographic as a whole) think of their customers.

It's only tit-for-tat for what we think about marketing folk.

SnowSultan

Wow, this blew up.  :)

Many made good points in this thread so far, but I'll explain why no one's changing my mind. I used to tutor conversational English to international college students, so I'm a bit of a stickler for at least *trying* to use complete sentences and not just bending the rules as I see fit. Of course I understand what DAZ, Red Robin, and the rest are saying, but like Byrdie said, I always get a bit of a "Me Tarzan" feeling when I see nouns used a verbs; as if the company is thinking that *we* are the dumb ones that need such simplification in order to understand them. I also spend a lot of time in political and gaming communities - two that are most definitely not known for their accurate spelling and proper grammar - and my Facebook feed is full of people saying things like "finna" and "wat u do". When you see almost nothing but poor English every day, you can probably understand why I'm fed up with every new instance.

 

Wendy: Oh yeah, I see "rediculous" more often than the correct way, and it's wrong and annoying every single time.

Ron: Haha, yeah seeing people refer to Studio as "DAZ" bugs me too. Maybe from now on, we should start saying "I need to export the images from Adobe to assemble in Adobe and then combine the video clips in Adobe".   

 

So yeah, debate the complexity of English all you want and consider me a grammar prude if you like, but every time I see that front page, I'm going to mumble to myself "tech ain't a verb".   

LeatherGryphon

davidwski_16294691f0 said:

I would say that rants like this are a little bit self-righteous. While I secretly pride myself with my usage of language and grammar, I've worked in manufacturing management for a long time, around people from 30-40 different countries over the years.

When someone calls in late and says "It's Traffic", or that they "cooked it good" when reporting a successful furnace batch, I get the point.

Something to consider; there's always been a first time for every word or concept ever expressed in any language.

You ain't gunna right it. Why complain?

Of course languages change, but I see no need to grease the downward slide.  This era has the dubious distinction of glorifying ignorance and promoting it globally at at the speed of light.  Talk about greasing the slide! 

Worlds_Edge

I don't mind it in slogans, catch phrases, or when trying to be funny or edgy.  I find it slightly irritating when overused or if in the business context (well, at least until language changes and what was once wrong now becomes right).