A dumb English rant

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  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,310

    Come to think of it, a little closer to home, I find it annoying that people feel they have have to point out that "Daz" is the name of the company that owns the store and develops and publishes the software, while the software is called "Daz Studio".

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited August 2020
    Sevrin said:

    Come to think of it, a little closer to home, I find it annoying that people feel they have have to point out that "Daz" is the name of the company that owns the store and develops and publishes the software, while the software is called "Daz Studio".

    Daz also have  Bryce, Carrara and Hexagon in their stable of programs,  Studio is not alone on the software front..

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • I remember a few years back contraversy on the forums here when a product had "Daz sucks!" as graffiti on the wall... it was attacking Daz, how dare they, kill the infidel,  etc etc etc (ok ok. not so much the infidel part.... well. with some users....)

     

    except the artist came from the UK, where Daz is mainly 2 things. Soap powder and the shortened form of Darren... Daz  / Daz Studio is hardly known outside of CG circles here... they were still forced to change it. I mention it since you have to think about word usage for a product thats international.... 

     

     

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,310
    Chohole said:
    Sevrin said:

    Come to think of it, a little closer to home, I find it annoying that people feel they have have to point out that "Daz" is the name of the company that owns the store and develops and publishes the software, while the software is called "Daz Studio".

    Daz also have  Bryce, Carrara and Hexagon in their stable of programs,  Studio is not alone on the software front..

    But they're not Daz Bryce, Daz Carrara or Daz Hexagon.  If they were to say "my studio crashed", there would be some ambiguity, but everyone knows what is meant when someone writes "my Daz crashed".  

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,618

    it could mean DAZ Dillinger totaled his ride cheeky

  • GreybroGreybro Posts: 2,505

    Render can be a noun or a verb.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 11,681
    Sevrin said:
    Chohole said:
    Sevrin said:

    Come to think of it, a little closer to home, I find it annoying that people feel they have have to point out that "Daz" is the name of the company that owns the store and develops and publishes the software, while the software is called "Daz Studio".

    Daz also have  Bryce, Carrara and Hexagon in their stable of programs,  Studio is not alone on the software front..

    But they're not Daz Bryce, Daz Carrara or Daz Hexagon.  If they were to say "my studio crashed", there would be some ambiguity, but everyone knows what is meant when someone writes "my Daz crashed".  

    Which begs the question why not change the name from "DAZ Studio" to something singular and unique like "Carrara" or "Hexagon" where there is no misinterpretation or clarity needed by adding the manufacturer's name?  How about um..., well ..., hmmm..., nope can't think of one.   OK, so this is a job for marketing.enlightened

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,618
    Sevrin said:
    Chohole said:
    Sevrin said:

    Come to think of it, a little closer to home, I find it annoying that people feel they have have to point out that "Daz" is the name of the company that owns the store and develops and publishes the software, while the software is called "Daz Studio".

    Daz also have  Bryce, Carrara and Hexagon in their stable of programs,  Studio is not alone on the software front..

    But they're not Daz Bryce, Daz Carrara or Daz Hexagon.  If they were to say "my studio crashed", there would be some ambiguity, but everyone knows what is meant when someone writes "my Daz crashed".  

    Which begs the question why not change the name from "DAZ Studio" to something singular and unique like "Carrara" or "Hexagon" where there is no misinterpretation or clarity needed by adding the manufacturer's name?  How about um..., well ..., hmmm..., nope can't think of one.   OK, so this is a job for marketing.enlightened

    they bought Carrara and Hexagon

    I first used Carrara 5 which was on a Magazine disc before I had even heard of DAZ and it was owned by Evocia

     

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    Sevrin said:
    Chohole said:
    Sevrin said:

    Come to think of it, a little closer to home, I find it annoying that people feel they have have to point out that "Daz" is the name of the company that owns the store and develops and publishes the software, while the software is called "Daz Studio".

    Daz also have  Bryce, Carrara and Hexagon in their stable of programs,  Studio is not alone on the software front..

    But they're not Daz Bryce, Daz Carrara or Daz Hexagon.  If they were to say "my studio crashed", there would be some ambiguity, but everyone knows what is meant when someone writes "my Daz crashed".  

    I disagree with you there.   It even confuses some of the newer CS staff when they are trying to decypher a help ticket.   And what everyone does understand,  or should understand is that Daz Srudio has always been referred to as DS  or D|S  since it's inception.   and DS is actually one key press less than Daz if people want a quick version.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited August 2020

    they bought Carrara and Hexagon

    I first used Carrara 5 which was on a Magazine disc before I had even heard of DAZ and it was owned by Evocia

     

    And Bryce, I have versions of Bryce from Metacreations and Corel before Daz bought it

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • HoroHoro Posts: 10,841

    And I have Studio from 0.8 or 0.9 on, Carrara from 3.0, Bryce from 4.0 and Hexagon from 2. Carrara, Bryce and Hexagon were there before there was a Studio.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,618
    Greybro said:

    Render can be a noun or a verb.

    it also can be congealed pig fat or larddevil

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 1,385

    Wow, six pages of rant and english grammar, I came late to the party, maybe I need to stop trying to make G8 working on "no more of 99,000 polys in blender viewport"...

    my conclusion is, SnowSultan is right, foreigners can be confused when learning english using nouns like verbs, and for those who are native english, think about japanese kanji, not haragana or hiragana, and try to pronounce a simple kanji that has more than 10 different hiragana pronunciations and maybe you have my POV IMHO (yep, acronyms for foreigners are a PITA too)

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,990

    ... and maybe you have my POV IMHO (yep, acronyms for foreigners are a PITA too)

    Yet sometimes they can be lots of fun for us foreigners, when something that is just an abbreviation/acronym for an english speking person turns out to be a real word in a different language.

    Or they don't really have a proper meaning, kinda look as if they had one, due to different pronounciations. POOSSLQ (*) is one of those. In german we'd say Posselkuh, which isn't a real word, but sounds quite funny (probably because it has "kuh" (= cow) at the end...)

     

    (*) POOSSLQ = Person of opposite sex sharing living quarters

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,618

    acronyms this song haz them plenty

     

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    Sevrin said:

    Come to think of it, a little closer to home, I find it annoying that people feel they have have to point out that "Daz" is the name of the company that owns the store and develops and publishes the software, while the software is called "Daz Studio".

    Yes, this does get very annoying. I really doubt that there is any confusion when the context is considered yet there is always someone, fingers poised, watching for that ultimate sin of omission. 

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,648

    Because the program is called DAZ Studio. It's abbreviated D|S. It's like the example I gave earlier of calling every product in the Creative Cloud line "Adobe". I'm one of those who happens to find it annoying when someone says "here's how to pose a figure in DAZ". DAZ and Studio should be used together because "DAZ" is the company/store, and "Studio" is too generic for many people to instantly know what program you're talking about. Bryce and Hexagon were established before DAZ bought them and have unique names, so we don't need to say "DAZ Bryce" for example. 

    None of that is really important of course...I should clarify that before someone comes in to tell me that there are more pressing things in the world to worry about (no kidding).

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,979
    edited August 2020

     

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

    What is a non-preset shader?  Do you mean textures?  I was confused about the difference between shaders and textures in the beginning.  And then there is maps.

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    Because the program is called DAZ Studio. It's abbreviated D|S. It's like the example I gave earlier of calling every product in the Creative Cloud line "Adobe". I'm one of those who happens to find it annoying when someone says "here's how to pose a figure in DAZ". DAZ and Studio should be used together because "DAZ" is the company/store, and "Studio" is too generic for many people to instantly know what program you're talking about. Bryce and Hexagon were established before DAZ bought them and have unique names, so we don't need to say "DAZ Bryce" for example. 

    None of that is really important of course...I should clarify that before someone comes in to tell me that there are more pressing things in the world to worry about (no kidding).

    I always do use the full "DAZ Studio" here but I know that when others just write DAZ and they are describing something pertaining to DAZ Studio, they mean DAZ Studio. I don't get this obession for correcting a simple omission. Your thread is about dumbing down the English language and I agree that it is happening and it is an unwelcome development but any forum user will soon learn that correcting bad English or spelling is just not done. As I said earlier, it is nice to have a single thread in which to rant and get it said, but I wouldn't want the pedants jumping in at every opportunity.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Taoz said:

     

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

    What is a non-preset shader?  Do you mean textures?  I was confused about the differenced between shaders and textures in the beginning.  And then there is maps. 

    Examples of shaders: IRayUber, DS default, AoA SSS, OmniUberSurface, aweSurface. And a number of custom shaders. Maps (textures) are used in shader presets to tell the shader how to calculate the output.

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,648

    Oh I wouldn't suggest that people jump into threads to correct people, like you pointed out, this was just a rant and open discussion. These things may bug me and might affect my opinions of some people, but I don't post comments on Youtube videos saying "it's DAZ STUDIO!" or anything.  ;)

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,979
    Taoz said:

     

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

    What is a non-preset shader?  Do you mean textures?  I was confused about the differenced between shaders and textures in the beginning.  And then there is maps. 

    Examples of shaders: IRayUber, DS default, AoA SSS, OmniUberSurface, aweSurface.

    OK, the base shader framework so to speak. 

     

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:

     

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

    What is a non-preset shader?  Do you mean textures?  I was confused about the differenced between shaders and textures in the beginning.  And then there is maps. 

    Examples of shaders: IRayUber, DS default, AoA SSS, OmniUberSurface, aweSurface.

    OK, the base shader framework so to speak. 

     

    One could argue that selling a product that "ships with 15 IRay shaders" is false advertising. I need to know what I get since I have to convert to awe, and customshaders typically won't convert without a lot of work, if at all.

    Oh I wouldn't suggest that people jump into threads to correct people, like you pointed out, this was just a rant and open discussion. These things may bug me and might affect my opinions of some people, but I don't post comments on Youtube videos saying "it's DAZ STUDIO!" or anything.  ;)

    It has been very entertaining indeed:))

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,979
    edited August 2020
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:

     

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

    What is a non-preset shader?  Do you mean textures?  I was confused about the differenced between shaders and textures in the beginning.  And then there is maps. 

    Examples of shaders: IRayUber, DS default, AoA SSS, OmniUberSurface, aweSurface.

    OK, the base shader framework so to speak. 

     

    One could argue that selling a product that "ships with 15 IRay shaders" is false advertising. I need to know what I get since I have to convert to awe, and customshaders typically won't convert without a lot of work, if at all.

    But is it possible to create your own Iray shader (framework)? Isn't that something NVidia controls, so that all you can do is create presets based on their framework?

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:

     

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

    What is a non-preset shader?  Do you mean textures?  I was confused about the differenced between shaders and textures in the beginning.  And then there is maps. 

    Examples of shaders: IRayUber, DS default, AoA SSS, OmniUberSurface, aweSurface.

    OK, the base shader framework so to speak. 

     

    One could argue that selling a product that "ships with 15 IRay shaders" is false advertising. I need to know what I get since I have to convert to awe, and customshaders typically won't convert without a lot of work, if at all.

    But is it possible to create your own Iray shader (framework)? Isn't that something NVidia controls, so that all you can do is create presets based on their framework?

    No, MDL code or Shader Mixer bricks can be used to create a new shader, with different inputs and different behaviours from other shaders. A preset sets the values of the properties. It's the same as the difference between a figure like Genesis 8 Female and a pose or character preset.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:

     

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

    What is a non-preset shader?  Do you mean textures?  I was confused about the differenced between shaders and textures in the beginning.  And then there is maps. 

    Examples of shaders: IRayUber, DS default, AoA SSS, OmniUberSurface, aweSurface.

    OK, the base shader framework so to speak. 

     

    One could argue that selling a product that "ships with 15 IRay shaders" is false advertising. I need to know what I get since I have to convert to awe, and customshaders typically won't convert without a lot of work, if at all.

    But is it possible to create your own Iray shader (framework)? Isn't that something NVidia controls, so that all you can do is create presets based on their framework?

    Yes of course! You can make your own custom shaders for IRay as long as you stick to MDL code. Just import the base shader to shadowmixer and customize it. Even code your own MDL bricks? There are lots of PAs (Oso3D and others) that know how to do it. You should probably ask them, I'm just a user, although I've made a number of simple custom 3DL shaders in SM. Haven't had the courage to look into Shader Builder yet, life's too damn short:)

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,979
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:

     

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

    What is a non-preset shader?  Do you mean textures?  I was confused about the differenced between shaders and textures in the beginning.  And then there is maps. 

    Examples of shaders: IRayUber, DS default, AoA SSS, OmniUberSurface, aweSurface.

    OK, the base shader framework so to speak. 

     

    One could argue that selling a product that "ships with 15 IRay shaders" is false advertising. I need to know what I get since I have to convert to awe, and customshaders typically won't convert without a lot of work, if at all.

    But is it possible to create your own Iray shader (framework)? Isn't that something NVidia controls, so that all you can do is create presets based on their framework?

    No, MDL code or Shader Mixer bricks can be used to create a new shader, with different inputs and different behaviours from other shaders. A preset sets the values of the properties. It's the same as the difference between a figure like Genesis 8 Female and a pose or character preset.

    But MDL is an NVidia framework as far as I can read here:

    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/technologies/material-definition-language/

    So IrayUber is just a certain type of shader, based on that framework?  But since "Iray" is an NVidia registered trademark, you can't really call an MDL custom shader you make for an Iray shader, can you?

     

  • Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:

     

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

    What is a non-preset shader?  Do you mean textures?  I was confused about the differenced between shaders and textures in the beginning.  And then there is maps. 

    Examples of shaders: IRayUber, DS default, AoA SSS, OmniUberSurface, aweSurface.

    OK, the base shader framework so to speak. 

     

    One could argue that selling a product that "ships with 15 IRay shaders" is false advertising. I need to know what I get since I have to convert to awe, and customshaders typically won't convert without a lot of work, if at all.

    But is it possible to create your own Iray shader (framework)? Isn't that something NVidia controls, so that all you can do is create presets based on their framework?

    No, MDL code or Shader Mixer bricks can be used to create a new shader, with different inputs and different behaviours from other shaders. A preset sets the values of the properties. It's the same as the difference between a figure like Genesis 8 Female and a pose or character preset.

    But MDL is an NVidia framework as far as I can read here:

    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/technologies/material-definition-language/

    So IrayUber is just a certain type of shader, based on that framework?  But since "Iray" is an NVidia registered trademark, you can't really call an MDL custom shader you make for an Iray shader, can you?

    MDL is a coding language (Material Definition Language), like RSL (Renderman Shader Language) used by 3Delight. The languages are used to write the shadrs we have and can be used to write others (look at the MDL samples that come with DS - geenrally special-purpose sahders with a limited set of proeprties comapared to the Iray Uber Base).

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,979
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:

     

    One thing that actually causes confusion among users...and yes I find it very annoying...is when shader PRESETS are referred to as shadersangry. Even PAs do it..."15 IRay shaders included" etc.

    What is a non-preset shader?  Do you mean textures?  I was confused about the differenced between shaders and textures in the beginning.  And then there is maps. 

    Examples of shaders: IRayUber, DS default, AoA SSS, OmniUberSurface, aweSurface.

    OK, the base shader framework so to speak. 

     

    One could argue that selling a product that "ships with 15 IRay shaders" is false advertising. I need to know what I get since I have to convert to awe, and customshaders typically won't convert without a lot of work, if at all.

    But is it possible to create your own Iray shader (framework)? Isn't that something NVidia controls, so that all you can do is create presets based on their framework?

    No, MDL code or Shader Mixer bricks can be used to create a new shader, with different inputs and different behaviours from other shaders. A preset sets the values of the properties. It's the same as the difference between a figure like Genesis 8 Female and a pose or character preset.

    But MDL is an NVidia framework as far as I can read here:

    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/technologies/material-definition-language/

    So IrayUber is just a certain type of shader, based on that framework?  But since "Iray" is an NVidia registered trademark, you can't really call an MDL custom shader you make for an Iray shader, can you?

    MDL is a coding language (Material Definition Language), like RSL (Renderman Shader Language) used by 3Delight. The languages are used to write the shadrs we have and can be used to write others (look at the MDL samples that come with DS - geenrally special-purpose sahders with a limited set of proeprties comapared to the Iray Uber Base).

    OK, thanks.  Guess I'll have to do some reading to figure all this out.

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