New DS Filament Render Engine

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Comments

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    von Hobo said:

    Wow! Really loving this Filament PBR Viewport preview. It's lighting fast!

    Nice job DAZ!

    It'd be useful if it actually matched the Iray lighting. 

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,169
    RAMWolff said:

    Not sure if I did this right.  BUT messing with the Tonemapper options gave me this result!  Not bad.  I have it set to iRAY render engine but perhaps with the three added nodes it switches over somehow to the Filament engine?  Not sure, still confused about all this!  

     

     

    You have to have it set to Filament on the viewport and then on the Render Settings tab, set it from Iray to "Viewport". Then when you hit render it's an instant Filament render.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,772
    Personally, I'm "whinging" about it because I know resources at Daz are limited. I wish they'd put their efforts elsewhere. 

     because only things that are usefull to you matter?

    Daz Studio's calling card is making near-photorealistic CG images attainable for those of hobbyist skill and above. I believe Filament actually cheapens the brand. When people start posting these and declare them "DAZ STUDIO RENDERS" nobody will be impressed, and it will turn people off to even trying Daz.

    Also, now PA's are going to need to figure out how to optimize materials for both Iray and Filament, probably making the quality suffer for both.

     

    I am already doing that with my YouTube channel of crap with 30K subscribers blush

    You go girl! yes

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited November 2020

    Is there a way to get strand based hair to render in Filament? I did a quick test and it works in preview but it disappears when rendered

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    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • Is there a way to get strand based hair to render in Filament? I did a quick test and it works in preview but it disappears when rendered

    line tessalation and make it really thick

    makes for a damned heavy scene though

  • 3Diva said:

    video

    transmapped foliage gives a lot of artifacts

     

    and how do I make Dforce strandhair thicker?

    can the not Dforce editable ones and they render

    Select the hair in the Scene Tab (the hair is usually parented to the cap for dForce hair so you'll have to open up under the cap to find the hair usually) then go to the surfaces tab and where it says "Line Start Width (mm)" increase that value to increase the line thickness. You might also increase the "Line End Width (mm)" as well if you increase the Line Start Width.

    3Diva had the answer BTW

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited November 2020

    Is there a way to get strand based hair to render in Filament? I did a quick test and it works in preview but it disappears when rendered

    line tessalation and make it really thick

    makes for a damned heavy scene though

    I tried increasing the line tessalation and it shows up in the Filament preview but still doesn't show up when the render.  Does it work for you?

    3Diva said:

    Select the hair in the Scene Tab (the hair is usually parented to the cap for dForce hair so you'll have to open up under the cap to find the hair usually) then go to the surfaces tab and where it says "Line Start Width (mm)" increase that value to increase the line thickness. You might also increase the "Line End Width (mm)" as well if you increase the Line Start Width.

    I tried this too and it still didn't show up in the final render

     

    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • Is there a way to get strand based hair to render in Filament? I did a quick test and it works in preview but it disappears when rendered

    line tessalation and make it really thick

    makes for a damned heavy scene though

    I tried that and it shows up um the Filament preview but still doesn't show up when the render.  Does it work for you?

     

    it did on the beta not installed the latest yet, about to

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,728

    Is there a way to get strand based hair to render in Filament? I did a quick test and it works in preview but it disappears when rendered

    line tessalation and make it really thick

    makes for a damned heavy scene though

    I tried increasing the line tessalation and it shows up in the Filament preview but still doesn't show up when the render.  Does it work for you?

    Make sure you have the universal tool selected as some tools (like Node Weight Map Brush and Geometry Editor), when selected, will make Strand-Based Hair not show up upon rendering.

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited November 2020

    Is there a way to get strand based hair to render in Filament? I did a quick test and it works in preview but it disappears when rendered

    line tessalation and make it really thick

    makes for a damned heavy scene though

    I tried that and it shows up um the Filament preview but still doesn't show up when the render.  Does it work for you?

     

    it did on the beta not installed the latest yet, about to

    Very cool results, thanks for sharing the info.  I just tried another test with my custom hamster SBH and it worked no problem. I just can't seem to get it to work with the dForce strand based hair. Maybe I just need to play with the setting 

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    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • khorneV2khorneV2 Posts: 147

    Is it possible to have "ambient surfaces" to fake emissive ?

  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,025
    edited November 2020
    Personally, I'm "whinging" about it because I know resources at Daz are limited. I wish they'd put their efforts elsewhere. 

     because only things that are usefull to you matter?

    Daz Studio's calling card is making near-photorealistic CG images attainable for those of hobbyist skill and above. I believe Filament actually cheapens the brand. When people start posting these and declare them "DAZ STUDIO RENDERS" nobody will be impressed, and it will turn people off to even trying Daz.

    Also, now PA's are going to need to figure out how to optimize materials for both Iray and Filament, probably making the quality suffer for both.

    I actively promote DS to everyone who follows me on Twitter because I think it's wild that it's not more well known, even as a tool for pose reference. Two main things stop people from trying it, in my experience:

    • It looks super advanced and they don't think they can do it.
    • Their computers aren't in good shape for rendering.

    The first one I can address by being transparent about my workflow. The second usually involves $400 USD or more they don't have. 

    The Filament renders I've seen so far are a great start. Most of them have been more artistically compelling than many of the Iray renders I've seen floating around online. The problem with the idea of cheapening the Daz brand is that a well-executed render isn't obviously done in DS; it could have been created in any 3D program, as far as people who aren't familiar with the assets and tools are concerned. But low-quality DS renders have a very specific look that's associated with amateur adult games and the like. 

    DS becoming more accessible is a good thing. More people will pick it up and get hooked on posing characters and designing scenes, it may encourage them to make it a full hobby and invest in it, and their work won't be any worse than the first render I made in Iray and posted online, which was very bad (and I was so excited because I couldn't believe I had the power to make the character do the thing).

    Post edited by plasma_ring on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,524
    edited November 2020
    khorneV2 said:

    Is it possible to have "ambient surfaces" to fake emissive ?

    I have been trying to give my flames glow,

    not as much as I would like

    I am guessing Kindred Arts fire product has the elusive settings but cannot buy anymore stuff this year

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,522

    I'm not that impressed with Filament. It sounds like there's a lot to do in order to set up scenes for render. If I want to lose hours doing that, I'll get Reality 4 out.

  • cain-xcain-x Posts: 196

    I may have missed this in the thread - was anyone able to get softer shadows to work on DAZ Filament? I hope to get home ASAP to test the new 4.14 release - I've been playing only on the beta.

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    edited November 2020
    The Filament renders I've seen so far are a great start. Most of them have been more artistically compelling than many of the Iray renders I've seen floating around online.

    Maybe I play too many video games, but I simply don't agree. Look at this real-time screen shot from Assassin's Creed: Valhalla:

     

    Now, something like this would be wort some excitement. And this isn't even Unreal Engine, it's "Anvilnext 2.0."

    To implement a real-time render engine, Daz should have gone with an established engine. Nobody knows Filament. I'm sure they decided to use it because it is cheap and / or free. 

    But you get what you pay for. 

    The problem with the idea of cheapening the Daz brand is that a well-executed render isn't obviously done in DS; it could have been created in any 3D program, as far as people who aren't familiar with the assets and tools are concerned.

    True. Which is why we should tell people we created it in Daz, and be proud!

    Post edited by Leonides02 on
  • Filament cat again, I added a light for shadows this time

  • Twilight76Twilight76 Posts: 318
    edited November 2020

    My first try with Filament.

    Ok, Hairs are a little tricky but so far nice fast rendering

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    Post edited by Twilight76 on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,524
    edited November 2020

    meh when you put someone on ignore you cannot look at the pictures they embed, they are whited

    videogames bake in shadows etc anyway

    BTW you don't have to like something

    you also don't have to deny others something

    but

    when you start telling other's their renders look like crap you better start sharing some of your superior renders as examples not video game images

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    edited November 2020

    meh when you put someone on ignore you cannot look at the pictures they embed, they are whited

    videogames bake in shadows etc anyway

    BTW you don't have to like something

    you also don't have to deny others something

    but

    when you start telling other's their renders look like crap you better start sharing some of your superior renders as examples not video game images

    My intention isn't to make it personal, Wendy. They don't look like crap because of anything you've done wrong. Filament is what I have issue with, not your effort. 

    Again: The problem, as I see it, is Daz apparently spent time / energy on a new feature that is just, well, bad. They don't have unlimited resources so that undoubtedly denied us advancements in other areas. Like, for instance, hair, which is what is really holding us back from producing photoreal renders. 

     

    Post edited by Leonides02 on
  • khorneV2khorneV2 Posts: 147

     

     

    Point Light OVER surface ?

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  • StorypilotStorypilot Posts: 1,675

    I'm not seeing anywhere where it's clearly stated - Does Filament not work on Macs? I just downloaded the update and watched the tutorial, but I don't see an option to switch to PBR mode in the viewport dropdown? 

    I was just about to buy the Filament-specific products... so i'm trying to get up to speed on if there are requirements here. 

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited November 2020

    This is strange, I get the reverse effect with DAZ Cat, I don't see it in the preview but it renders fine.  The fur has the same settings for both the cat and the dog.

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    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • Again: The problem, as I see it, is Daz apparently spent time / energy on a new feature that is just, well, bad. They don't have unlimited resources so that undoubtedly denied us advancements in other areas. Like, for instance, hair, which is what is really holding us back from producing photoreal renders

    Photoreal Renders?, Zbrush is your league then, not Daz!

    if not, well there is the all mighty big render engines awaiting for you: Vray, Arnold, Maxwell, Keyshot, Lumion, Octane.

    hair, easy cake! even Blender does great hair (and I am not a Blender user!) , and Daz have a bridge for that, what is your claim?

    remember, all software is a simple tool for your creation, sticking on one is mere...simply not the way!

  • PaintboxPaintbox Posts: 1,633

    I love to see Vulkan support myself, although if they implement the full Filament spec, that's not bad either. The only thing is that Filament is made by Google, and they have a tendency to drop support for their products unexpectedly and when not performing.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,728
    edited November 2020

    Is there a way to get strand based hair to render in Filament? I did a quick test and it works in preview but it disappears when rendered

    line tessalation and make it really thick

    makes for a damned heavy scene though

    I tried that and it shows up um the Filament preview but still doesn't show up when the render.  Does it work for you?

     

    it did on the beta not installed the latest yet, about to

    Very cool results, thanks for sharing the info.  I just tried another test with my custom hamster SBH and it worked no problem. I just can't seem to get it to work with the dForce strand based hair. Maybe I just need to play with the setting 

    It might be the hair shader that's being used, some shaders or surface settings don't seem to be "readable" by Filament. I haven't narrowed it down to what the issue is.

    khorneV2 said:

    Is it possible to have "ambient surfaces" to fake emissive ?

    I have been trying to give my flames glow,

    not as much as I would like

    I am guessing Kindred Arts fire product has the elusive settings but cannot buy anymore stuff this year

    As @khorneV2 pointed out, a point light works. I used that method for the magic that she's holding in the render I did above. Though in hindsight I probably should have increased the Lumen of the point light.

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • 3Diva said:

    Is there a way to get strand based hair to render in Filament? I did a quick test and it works in preview but it disappears when rendered

    line tessalation and make it really thick

    makes for a damned heavy scene though

    I tried that and it shows up um the Filament preview but still doesn't show up when the render.  Does it work for you?

     

    it did on the beta not installed the latest yet, about to

    Very cool results, thanks for sharing the info.  I just tried another test with my custom hamster SBH and it worked no problem. I just can't seem to get it to work with the dForce strand based hair. Maybe I just need to play with the setting 

    It might be the hair shader that's being used, some shaders or surface settings don't seem to be "readable" by Filament. I haven't narrowed it down to what the issue is.

    khorneV2 said:

    Is it possible to have "ambient surfaces" to fake emissive ?

    I have been trying to give my flames glow,

    not as much as I would like

    I am guessing Kindred Arts fire product has the elusive settings but cannot buy anymore stuff this year

    As @khorneV2 pointed out, a point light works. I used that method for the magic that she's holding in the render I did above. Though in hindsight I probably should have increased the Lumen of the point light.

    yes I use a point light but that hot glow I see in KindredArt's promo eludes me

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,728

    My first try with Filament.

    Ok, Hairs are a little tricky but so far nice fast rendering

    That looks pretty good! I would probably increase the bump and/or decrease the gloss, but dang that's not bad at all. And definitely not bad for pretty much instant rendering. lol While Filament isn't meant to compete with Iray I do think as a draw style it's pretty good and can handle MASSIVE scenes WAY better than most other draw styles I've experimented with. And for animations, I definitely think Filament can be a great help to people who want to do animations but don't want to wait countless hours or even days for the animation to render.

  • Sevrin said:

    I don't see many PAs spending time on Filament, unless they're making dedicated shaders.  For one thing, Filament is still a work in progress and trying to make hair is still a waste of time, and for another, there more people still using 3DL than will get serious about Filament in the state it's in.

    Other than that, I think it looks fine.  It doesn't have to be photorealistic; it just has to look right.  You could easily illustrate a comic or visual novel with Filament, even in its current state, as long as you figure out how to handle hair.

    So, dunno about the other 3DL users? But I'd like to be able to use iRay mats without having to fiddle around with conversion. Filament at least looks like it'll be more compatible with iRay's PBR mats than 3DL is. That, and there's also issues with how few artists are bundling 3DL mats anymore. Most of the shaders I'm using are many years old.

    And I like how Filament is an open source project? So it can actively work to improve the code. iRay is what the FOSS community calls a "binary blob," and it also suffers from vendor lock- in problems that Filament can help solve.

  • NylonGirlNylonGirl Posts: 1,918

    Now if this Filament is only being used for preview mode then why are they selling materials and converters for it? And if it's meant for final renders then why isn't there a Filament option in the list of render engines?

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