New DS Filament Render Engine

oppai-man

I played around a bit and I think it's a fantastic replacement for the Texture shaded viewport, that starts to get very slow if as your project gets more complex.

 

nonesuch00

Eustace Scrubb said:

nonesuch00 said:

Eustace Scrubb said:

Filament's actually better than Iray, IMO, for certain stylizing:  the following images were done of the same scene (2× G8 Male, in Sixus1's Retrospace Scanner outfit, in a TerraDome 3 landscape).  The redder one is Iray, the streaky one is Filament.  But for my purposes-- a SF cover that needed simplicity and a Pulp feel, I went with the Filament one, hands down.

In fact, the Filament look was an easy winner, and it took some wrangling with both the HDRI and the scene to get an Iray version of the look I wanted and had already achieved in Filament.

(That's not to say Filament's perfect:  it's a really good preview engine, but it doesn't do cast shadows at all (including interior shadows when your scene lighting is through a window) and absolutely hates transmapping.)
 

Wow! Love that style. Care to share the scene so I needn't guess? Thanks in either case.

I can share a link to the book if you want....   But sorry, the scene-file isn't available.

Really, the appearance was a happy accident:  I was setting up for an Iray render (and resigning myself to not using the render laptop until the next Tuesday or so) and the Filament scene basically just rolled an eleven for me.

That's OK, the new 4.14 Filament release I see has already happily superceded the Filament material problems I was having with the products used in my particular scenes.

nonesuch00

3Diva said:

Is it just me or did the new update improve the look of Filament by quite a bit? I got some really nice results this time, so either I'm getting much better at setting up lighting and skin settings for Filament or they really improved the results from Filament rendering. 

Here are a couple of filament renders I just did with the new Daz Studio 4.14.

 

 

I also watched this video which probably helped quite a bit (Thank You, Kindred Arts for the walkthrough and great tips!).

It definitely has for my scenes & your scene looks much improved in Filament.

nonesuch00

psfilipe said:

Why not optimize Iray further?
Shouldn't they focus on getting their main render engine up to par in terms of speed? Octane comes to mind...

Iray is great. It just needs to be faster. That's all. Just faster.
Fast enough so people like me, who don't want to wait for animations, can finally start... animating.
Fast enough so we can produce more stories and less one-shot images.

That said: I really, really hope people can use Filament. I'm sure they'll make great content with it.
For me... Just doesn't seem like something I'll use. But, of course, the fact that it's not for me doesn't mean it isn't valuable!

ps: Please, Nvidia / Daz, please optmize Iray further.
All Daz3D lovers need a faster Photoreal render engine. Just that. Same, but faster.

 

They ARE optimizing iRay further judging from the faster and in my opinion, improved results of my scenes' iRay renders, those that I've done.

nonesuch00

psfilipe said:

deepswing said:

+1, same on my end, thanks for sharing my view. :)

 

It's one of those things, isn't it?
I mean we finally get some pretty photorealistic results in Daz.
We learn how to use it, optimize our workflows to maximize our renders, and what do they do for the next step? Shift their attention to... Better previews?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an ungrateful asshole who doesn't appreciate that there's people out there that can/will do wonderful things with Filament.
I'm just saying I really hoped we could have some trimmed render time in Iray. That's all.

Not even complaining that much.
For instance, this (see attach) took me 01h30m at 6750x6750px (post in Photoshop).
Wouldn't it be great to make the same thing but in like... 20 minutes?

 

Well I can see you must have an 20X0 or 30X0 RTX GPU already to render a scene with that resolution and that much refraction, reflection, and opacity in an hour & a half.

You might try reducing the render resolution to FHD or 2K and then using DLSS to upscale to your desired final resolution.

What DAZ 3D could help with that is add a configurable automatic post-processing step to scale our render(s) (renders as it might be an animation) from the rendered resolution to the scaled resolution using DLSS if the GPU supports it. Now that should be comparitively easy for DAZ 3D to implement.

darth_giles8167653

Does Filament work on Macs? I just installed the update, and I didn't see the option to set the viewport to Filament. I'm reinstalling now in case something bugged out on me during the update, but I'd like to double- check just to make sure.

Edit: Reinstalled and it's still not there. I can add the three nodes, but the menu item just isn't there.

Edit again: Looks like the buried it in the chagelog. Not Mac release yet, and they did say "yet."

Aiijuin Graphics

I just saw the news on Filament this morning. It looks AMAZING!  I can't render in Iray, or rather, I can hardly render in Iray.  I have a Dell T3500, fitted up with a GTX 970.  It's the most that I can afford on a school custodian's paycheck.  (Hobbyist here, not a pro). Iray is just too much for my system despite having 4GB of VRAM, and 24 GB of RAM.  When I try to render in Iray, and sometimes certain 3Delight lights - DAZ just crashes due to the fact that my system overloads or the render can take over 24 hours.  I have all these wonderful Iray shaders and lights and I simply cannot use them, which is a shame since some are so innovative and beautiful.

THIS!  This is a most welcome addition.  I animate too, so it's a virtual godsend.

As such, I have several questions after watching the tutorial here and I'm not sure anyone can answer yet:

1) Can multiple shaders be combined in one scene now?  Ex:  I want to use pWtoon shaders with an HDR background and an Iray metallic shaded sword, can it be done with Filament rendering?  (Iray and 3Delight shaders get cranky together once lighting is added to a scene, often crashing the program or showing as all black or all white forms)

2) Can Iray geoshells be placed over 3Delight shaders?  There are some makeup overlays that I love, but the caveat is that I must use an Iray skin the NVidia Iray Render mode to make them work.  Again, my PC cannot render in Iray, no matter how much I beg, plead, and chant a mantra around it.  It just won't.

 

3) The tutorial/intro video says that Filament works with older systems.  Please say this is going to compact with Windows 7 pro!  I not interested in the chaos that is known as Windows 8 or 10.  I refuse to have to upgrade to those O/S until I'm absolutely forced to by the powers that be.

 

Thank you!

 

Aiijuin Graphics

Aiijuin Graphics said:

I just saw the news on Filament this morning. It looks AMAZING!  I can't render in Iray, or rather, I can hardly render in Iray.  I have a Dell T3500, fitted up with a GTX 970.  It's the most that I can afford on a school custodian's paycheck.  (Hobbyist here, not a pro). Iray is just too much for my system despite having 4GB of VRAM, and 24 GB of RAM.  When I try to render in Iray, and sometimes certain 3Delight lights - DAZ just crashes due to the fact that my system overloads or the render can take over 24 hours.  I have all these wonderful Iray shaders and lights and I simply cannot use them, which is a shame since some are so innovative and beautiful.

THIS!  This is a most welcome addition.  I animate too, so it's a virtual godsend.

As such, I have several questions after watching the tutorial here and I'm not sure anyone can answer yet:

1) Can multiple shaders be combined in one scene now?  Ex:  I want to use pWtoon shaders with an HDR background and an Iray metallic shaded sword, can it be done with Filament rendering?  (Iray and 3Delight shaders get cranky together once lighting is added to a scene, often crashing the program or showing as all black or all white forms)

2) Can Iray geoshells be placed over 3Delight shaders?  There are some makeup overlays that I love, but the caveat is that I must use an Iray skin the NVidia Iray Render mode to make them work.  Again, my PC cannot render in Iray, no matter how much I beg, plead, and chant a mantra around it.  It just won't.

 

3) The tutorial/intro video says that Filament works with older systems.  Please say this is going to compact with Windows 7 pro!  I not interested in the chaos that is known as Windows 8 or 10.  I refuse to have to upgrade to those O/S until I'm absolutely forced to by the powers that be.

 

Thank you!

 

I meant, *be compatible- not "compact" autocorrect strikes again.

Rod Wise Driggo

Also was looking forward to filament - until I found out that Mac folks are not invited to the party. And this although I still have slow Intel silicone in by box. Well time will tell. At least no need to shop for additional filament stuff at the moment.

Nath

3DL textures play better with Filament than Iray ones - this scene is sort of hybrid. Benita's skin is Iray, but the light, the hair and eye textures and the background are all 3DL.

 

Richard Haseltine

Aiijuin Graphics said:

I just saw the news on Filament this morning. It looks AMAZING!  I can't render in Iray, or rather, I can hardly render in Iray.  I have a Dell T3500, fitted up with a GTX 970.  It's the most that I can afford on a school custodian's paycheck.  (Hobbyist here, not a pro). Iray is just too much for my system despite having 4GB of VRAM, and 24 GB of RAM.  When I try to render in Iray, and sometimes certain 3Delight lights - DAZ just crashes due to the fact that my system overloads or the render can take over 24 hours.  I have all these wonderful Iray shaders and lights and I simply cannot use them, which is a shame since some are so innovative and beautiful.

THIS!  This is a most welcome addition.  I animate too, so it's a virtual godsend.

As such, I have several questions after watching the tutorial here and I'm not sure anyone can answer yet:

1) Can multiple shaders be combined in one scene now?  Ex:  I want to use pWtoon shaders with an HDR background and an Iray metallic shaded sword, can it be done with Filament rendering?  (Iray and 3Delight shaders get cranky together once lighting is added to a scene, often crashing the program or showing as all black or all white forms)

Filament doesn't use Iray or 3delight shaders as such, though I think Daz has doen work - as they did with Iray - to try to make sensible conversions of the standard shader(s)

Aiijuin Graphics said:

2) Can Iray geoshells be placed over 3Delight shaders?  There are some makeup overlays that I love, but the caveat is that I must use an Iray skin the NVidia Iray Render mode to make them work.  Again, my PC cannot render in Iray, no matter how much I beg, plead, and chant a mantra around it.  It just won't.

You can mix, yes, but as in Iray itself there will be conversion rather than a diect implementation of the different shaders.

Aiijuin Graphics said:

3) The tutorial/intro video says that Filament works with older systems.  Please say this is going to compact with Windows 7 pro!  I not interested in the chaos that is known as Windows 8 or 10.  I refuse to have to upgrade to those O/S until I'm absolutely forced to by the powers that be.

 

Thank you!

 

 

Korvar

I'm finding Filament *super* bright, compared to Iray.  Here's an example, both Iray and Filament, of the same scene, changing nothing but the DrawStyle of the viewport.

Does anyone know why this might be, and how I might fix it?

Aiijuin Graphics

Richard Haseltine said:

Aiijuin Graphics said:

I just saw the news on Filament this morning. It looks AMAZING!  I can't render in Iray, or rather, I can hardly render in Iray.  I have a Dell T3500, fitted up with a GTX 970.  It's the most that I can afford on a school custodian's paycheck.  (Hobbyist here, not a pro). Iray is just too much for my system despite having 4GB of VRAM, and 24 GB of RAM.  When I try to render in Iray, and sometimes certain 3Delight lights - DAZ just crashes due to the fact that my system overloads or the render can take over 24 hours.  I have all these wonderful Iray shaders and lights and I simply cannot use them, which is a shame since some are so innovative and beautiful.

THIS!  This is a most welcome addition.  I animate too, so it's a virtual godsend.

As such, I have several questions after watching the tutorial here and I'm not sure anyone can answer yet:

1) Can multiple shaders be combined in one scene now?  Ex:  I want to use pWtoon shaders with an HDR background and an Iray metallic shaded sword, can it be done with Filament rendering?  (Iray and 3Delight shaders get cranky together once lighting is added to a scene, often crashing the program or showing as all black or all white forms)

Filament doesn't use Iray or 3delight shaders as such, though I think Daz has doen work - as they did with Iray - to try to make sensible conversions of the standard shader(s)

Aiijuin Graphics said:

2) Can Iray geoshells be placed over 3Delight shaders?  There are some makeup overlays that I love, but the caveat is that I must use an Iray skin the NVidia Iray Render mode to make them work.  Again, my PC cannot render in Iray, no matter how much I beg, plead, and chant a mantra around it.  It just won't.

You can mix, yes, but as in Iray itself there will be conversion rather than a diect implementation of the different shaders.

Aiijuin Graphics said:

3) The tutorial/intro video says that Filament works with older systems.  Please say this is going to compact with Windows 7 pro!  I not interested in the chaos that is known as Windows 8 or 10.  I refuse to have to upgrade to those O/S until I'm absolutely forced to by the powers that be.

 

Thank you!

 

 

Thank you, Richard!  I know it will be a conversation process for lights and such, or the eventual integration into the new Filament renderer.  It really is a wonderful thing.  I suspect as more time and more development from the tech gurus moves forward, we will see incredible updates, additions, and add-ones to make the workflow process of rendering so much faster and easier.  
 

Thank you again! 

Aiijuin Graphics

Nath said:

3DL textures play better with Filament than Iray ones - this scene is sort of hybrid. Benita's skin is Iray, but the light, the hair and eye textures and the background are all 3DL.

 

That's also great news.  I mean for me personally since as aforementioned by me, my PC just won't render Iray.  I would love to 3DL and Iray shaders be compatible with each other once a lighting node is added into the scene.  Some shaders are ones I cannot live without, like pWtoon.  Others, I would love to try, like OsoToon shaders for Iray.  

Eustace Scrubb

Hey, y'all.  Stop whinging about it as though it was the new Main Render Engine.  Right now, it's confined to the viewport, and while it lacks some things that even 3Delight offers, like, y'know, shadows, it's still far better as a Preview Engine than either OpenGL raw windows or waiting on the perpetually-refreshing-itself Iray preview option.  If you don't want to use it for a render engine, don't.

Richard John S

I think it looks good, and I definitely love the render speed! The only thing is the hair and transparency. You can see through the hair.

icprncss

Eustace Scrubb said:

Hey, y'all.  Stop whinging about it as though it was the new Main Render Engine.  Right now, it's confined to the viewport, and while it lacks some things that even 3Delight offers, like, y'know, shadows, it's still far better as a Preview Engine than either OpenGL raw windows or waiting on the perpetually-refreshing-itself Iray preview option.  If you don't want to use it for a render engine, don't.

I'm not whining, I'm trying to understand what it is where it may or may not sit in our pipeline. As always, the bean counters will want to know about any costs such as new plugins and add ons and whether there are any benefits outweighing the risks. Budget time approacheth.

The Blurst of Times

Well... if it can work as an instant "This is where I Am" with an HDRI, that would be pretty interesting in itself.

I could see a lot of use out of this to composite scenes, and burn the most Iray time on the things I actually want in super detail.

Nath

Richard John S said:

I think it looks good, and I definitely love the render speed! The only thing is the hair and transparency. You can see through the hair.

Try also what hair looks like if you use its 3DL mat on it in Filament - it seems to look less thin/transparent

diogenese19348

You need to add in the three nodes the video mentions to get them in the scene tab. Bottom three options on the CREATE tab.  And of course I was replying to something on page one that has probably been answered 42 times already...

Korvar

diogenese19348 said:

You need to add in the three nodes the video mentions to get them in the scene tab. Bottom three options on the CREATE tab.  And of course I was replying to something on page one that has probably been answered 42 times already...

Ah, that helps me actually.  I have to change the Environment Intensity Scale quite a bit to get things to loko about right, which is interesting.

Leonides02

3Diva said:

Filament looks like crap. I honestly don't understand why DAZ put time / resources into implementing this "solution" for real-time rendering. Unreal Engine is real-time and looks far, far better. 

I don't know, I think this one turned out pretty cool. It's not Iray, of course but I really don't think it's "crap". And it took less than five seconds to render. That's amazing. :)

Maybe we have different expectations. That looks like a Playstation game from 1995. I just don't understand why you'd want to put so much time and effort into setting up a great scene, only to have the render look so antiquated. 

 

 

 

Leonides02

Eustace Scrubb said:

Hey, y'all.  Stop whinging about it as though it was the new Main Render Engine.  Right now, it's confined to the viewport, and while it lacks some things that even 3Delight offers, like, y'know, shadows, it's still far better as a Preview Engine than either OpenGL raw windows or waiting on the perpetually-refreshing-itself Iray preview option.  If you don't want to use it for a render engine, don't.

Personally, I'm "whinging" about it because I know resources at Daz are limited. I wish they'd put their efforts elsewhere. 

WendyLuvsCatz

some of the poorer users among us

(puts up hand)

who don't own Nvidia RTX graphics card actually find this very good

evilcho_

I wonder if we will ever see Cycles being implemented as a render engine in Daz Studio? From the little I've used it in Blender I really enjoyed it.

RAMWolff

Not sure if I did this right.  BUT messing with the Tonemapper options gave me this result!  Not bad.  I have it set to iRAY render engine but perhaps with the three added nodes it switches over somehow to the Filament engine?  Not sure, still confused about all this!  

 

 

rrward

I can kinda see the point, but it's not for me. I've been doing setup in texture shaded since Poser 6 and my brain just knows how things are going to turn out in the final render now. Yes, I do have to use Iray to adjust the lights (and no, I do not like the quality of Iray preview mode at all).

vonHobo

Wow! Really loving this Filament PBR Viewport preview. It's lighting fast!

Nice job DAZ!

 

Peter Wade

Leonides02 said:

3Diva said:

Leonides02 said:

Filament looks like crap. I honestly don't understand why DAZ put time / resources into implementing this "solution" for real-time rendering. Unreal Engine is real-time and looks far, far better. 

I don't know, I think this one turned out pretty cool. It's not Iray, of course but I really don't think it's "crap". And it took less than five seconds to render. That's amazing. :)

Maybe we have different expectations. That looks like a Playstation game from 1995. I just don't understand why you'd want to put so much time and effort into setting up a great scene, only to have the render look so antiquated. 

 

 

 

Different people have different expectations, and sometimes the same people at different times. I like that render. It's not photo-realism, more artistic. Sometimes I want realism, sometimes I don't. And I don't think an antiquated look is a bad thing. It depends on what you are trying to achieve for each image.

P.S. there should be another level of quoting in this ending above the paragraph above. It was there when I was typing this but the forum seems to have lost it when I posted.

khorneV2

A 4.14 raw test with old marshian ALR for 3dl & MAttyManx Resource Saver Shaders Collection for Iray.

Nice but still rough shadows, no emissive lights and simple glass (i guess)

Results can be good