Genesis 8.1 / Victoria 8.1

Timotheus

ChangelingChick said:

Timotheus said:

kgrosser said:

Bummer, fell in that trap, too. With full body geoshells for G8 not working on G8.1 and vellus hair not included, how does one proceed to return the V8.1 purchase?

How exactly are the geoshells not working? What issues are you seeing?

Tim

Head and Body areas are showing up white. You can fix them manually, but it's not automatic. Geoshells don't have a preferred base because they apply to everything and just take on the mat zones of whatever they apply to so the magic used to make G8.1 take the G8 mats and apply to the new mat zones properly won't work the same with the same magic they did. Daz is aware of this and it looking into it though.

Right. So ... geoshells are working exactly as expected? I thought maybe people were seeing some major issues, but it's just the new surfaces causing some confusion. Got it.

Tim

Mark_e593e0a5

ChangelingChick said:

Faeryl Womyn said:

Do I have to upgrade to Daz 4.15 in order to use the new G8.1...I currently have 4.12 installed and not exactly looking forware to upgradign with so many bugs still in it.

I'm not sure what bugs you're talking about. I've been using it with no issue, but yes, the new shader requires 4.15 as does some of the automatic ports of stuff from G8 to 8.1. 

the Iray renderer in 4.15 do seem to treat opacity differently, see thread: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/417501/thephilosopher-s-new-mountains-of-altair#latest, especially with volumetric props. It als shows up in close-ups with e.g. in transmapped hair.

Given that DAZ Studio is for renders, I would consider that a major issue...

airlegacy22

ChangelingChick said:

airlegacy22 said:

Hey all!
So I've been looking around here in the forums to see if I someone has mentioned the answer to this specific question, but I couldn't really find it, or just missed it, so here it goes.

Question 1: Once you update to the newest build, and get G8.1 and the rest of all the good stuff, what I've gathered from others, is that you'll retain G8 just as it was before, and get G8.1 as its own entity. Is that correct?

 

Yes.

 

 

Question2: (And this is what I'm really curious about.) If I have let's say a G8F custom character, with modified shapes, morphs, textures, everything. Can I still utilize the new shaders, facial expression system and all that for that G8F character, without altering or having something altered (morphs, texturemaps, etc)?  So essentially retaining the EXACT same character, but still access the new features?

Thanks a lot in advance!

If you want to use the new shader, it's setup a bit differently from Iray Uber so you'll need to insert the maps to the new shader manually probably. It's more in line with industry standard PBR shaders as I recall. Your custom G8 character, textures, will still work on G8.1. The shader can even be applied to G8 if you want. Basically what you make for G8 will load on G8.1 out of the box (assuming your DS is up to date). So basically a character made for G8 is a character that is for G8 and G8.1 if that makes sense. It's weird but the devs did some really cool magic to get G8.1 to pull in all the G8 stuff so there wouldn't be a conversion process.

So in order to use the shader, I don't need to convert the character into a G8.1 one? Because the thing is, when I say custom character, I mean I have a lot of body and head shape dials from different vendors being used  to create it. And I don't know if after "converting" the character to G8.1 all of those would still be functional. So I can't just dial the character in for G8.1 is my point.

Thanks for all the reply by the way!

ChangelingChick

Haruchai said:

ChangelingChick said:

Haruchai said:

ChangelingChick said:

Haruchai said:

RobotHeadArt said:

What about LIE (tattoos and makeup) and geoshells? The UVs are different so do textures laid out for G8 (and G3 which has the same UVs as G8) work on a G8.1?

My experience so far is only with Geoshells.  If I load a Geoshell directly onto Genesis 8.1 Female and try to use an existing 8 preset it will not work. This doesn't change even if I change the UV from Base 8.1 Female to Base Female on the Geoshell.

If I load a preset Geoshell made for 8 in one of the existing packages on to 8.1 it will load with the body white. If you are looking to add makeup to the face you can turn off the rest and it will work. If you want to add nails or arms/legs it will work if you turn off the body also. Anything that appears on the body or crosses a boundary with the body will not work.

I suspect you would get similar error with LIE but it might work IF you change the UV to Base Female first but then you couldn't use the new skins.

If anyone else could confirm/refute the above I would be interested :)

G8 LIE does work on G8.1. I did a few tests of this after the geoshell was noticed. The Geoshell thing is being looked at.

Based on this good news I went to try LIE. This is literally the first one I tried. Aisling Torso Tattoo. Take a look at the neck. Are you getting diferent results?

I am actually. The only thing the torso--- oh, I see. Are you using the G8 skin? Or Aisling's? 

Just a plain Genesis 8.1 loaded and the LIE added. I'll try to replicate something like SenzaMisura did above and get a short term fix.

The issue is the UV, not the LIE application. G8.1 uses a different UV than the one Aisling was designed for. G8.1 has different UV on the Head, Face, Eyes, Mouth and Teeth mat zones. So LIE will work on the UV it was designed for without extra steps.

Mistara

@Richard Haseltine

@DVoid

thank you.  the 8.1 d/l is mysterious.

Matt_Castle

jaxprog said:

Microsoft now makes one operating system, windows 10, and improves the same operating system with all the new features via updates, without having to buy windows all over again. This is the way Genesis 8 should be.

Have you actually tried to use Windows 10 with software that's not being actively developed? New updates break compatibility with things all the time, and a lot of software/hardware/driver developers are constantly running around like demented loons trying to pick up the pieces to keep everything working with modern programs, and then that breaks old programs. I've seen many older games end up broken for months (if not forever) unless you roll back to specific driver versions, which crash *other* games because they're not up-to-date enough, etc, etc.

Constant live updates to G8 would be an absolutely horrible idea, breaking old products and scenes left right and centre. There are fundamental limitations to 3D models that mean that you cannot keep everything 100% compatible while also progressing. We've seen a few of the things that G8.1 has issues with - scripts and geoshells I expect to see fixed relatively soon (that's more of an oversight than an actual problem), but stuff like the facial controls is a much more fundamental problem.

This is why G8.1 has NOT outright overwritten G8, in order not to break existing features for existing users.

As is, Genesis 8.1 is the absolute best compromise at the moment. *Most* of your G8 stuff will work with it. The other stuff may be convertable with time. But, and this is the important thing: Daz have not done even one tiny teensy weensy itty-bitty microscopic thing that could have broken anything with G8.

G8 will continue to work as well as it ever did, and G8.1 has not taken anything away from that.

MelissaGT

ChangelingChick said:

melissastjames said:

rayglendenning said:

melissastjames said:

artistb3 said:

To those new to DS with Genesis 8 and waking up to find that those G8 characters you bought are no longer compatible with new content, welcome to the Obsolescence Club.  I have to tell you, however, you likely have it easy.  Imagine waking up to find that your G1 and G2 (even worse) were suddenly obsolete.  All the money and time invested, much of it down the drain.

Oh yes, there are always a number of people scurring around, excited like it's Christmas morning, "Oh boy, a new version of Genesis!".  The end-users who are already heavily invested are thinking, "Here we go again..."

Enjoy!

What exactly is obsolete about G8? Clothing, hair, and poses for G8.1 will still work on G8. All of your G8 characters can be loaded onto the G8.1 base. No complex tool or clunky manual workarounds needed. From what everybody is saying, G8.1 is still the exact same mesh...only with a new UV map and updated facial rig. This is not moving from G2 to G3 or G3 to G8. 

So why the high price?

Your guess is as good as mine, but folks are acting like the sky is falling when it comes to their G8 figures when they're losing exactly nothing. All of my G8 morphs show up on G8.1, so the only difference I'm seeing are improved expressions and a new UV map and skin shader.  

Victoria 8.1 is an entirely new character much like Victoria 8, Bethany 8, Charlotte 8, etc are.  Just like those characters had a bundle, so does Victoria 8.1. You can buy her alone, with her bundle (the university bundle) or just use the base Genesis 8.1. There are also improved teeth/mouth realism, a new tear geometry and a new lash geometry. I know the splash page only has the front teeth showing, but they did an amazing job updating the shape on the teeth as a whole and the tongue. 

 

Except the vellus hair is only included with the Victoria 8.1 University Bundle. That's the one that that tripped my annoyance trolley...especially because I started out only buying Victoria 8.1 and her HD add-on. The vellus hair is listed as a feature on Vicky 8.1's product page, yet isn't included unless you buy the (way) more expensive bundle. 

johnjohn808

Matt_Castle said:

Hylas said:

What about Geografts?

All the geografts I've tried so far still work, including those from *ahem* other stores.

Thank goodness! LOL

XpiderMan

Will the issue with G8 poses and some expressions not being compatible with G8.1 be addressed in the near future (hopefully as a free upgrade)? It doesn't make sense to me to call it 8.1 when it is not compatible in most aspects. Why not instead label it as G9 and being backward compatible with G8, just like G8 is with G3? Thanks.

ChangelingChick

XpiderMan said:

Will the issue with G8 poses and some expressions not being compatible with G8.1 be addressed in the near future (hopefully as a free upgrade)? It doesn't make sense to me to call it 8.1 when it is not compatible in most aspects. Why not instead label it as G9 and being backward compatible with G8, just like G8 is with G3? Thanks.

Poses still work fine. It's just the expressions that don't. 

RCTSpanky

If 8.1 is "just" an update, why did we need to pay again for her the full price, when we own Victoria 8 or one of her bundles?

Matt_Castle

RCTSpanky said:

If 8.1 is "just" an update, why did we need to pay again for her the full price, when we own Victoria 8 or one of her bundles?

Because Genesis 8.1 is just an update. Victoria 8.1 is an entirely new morph/texture set, not entirely dissimilar to the difference between Victoria 8 and Olympia 8.

Richard Haseltine

RCTSpanky said:

If 8.1 is "just" an update, why did we need to pay again for her the full price, when we own Victoria 8 or one of her bundles?

Genesis 8.1 Female is free. Victoria 8.1 is a new character that uses Genesis 8.1 Female, it isn't an update of Victoria 8 (anymore than Victoria 8 was an update of Victoria 7). Each named character is a new entity, even if it is in the style of a previous character of the same name.

WendyLuvsCatz

since the vellus hair is not actually mentioned in that bundle I find this odd

not that I care, I actually have a different vellus hair product I have never used 

rayglendenning

melissastjames said:

ChangelingChick said:

melissastjames said:

rayglendenning said:

melissastjames said:

artistb3 said:

To those new to DS with Genesis 8 and waking up to find that those G8 characters you bought are no longer compatible with new content, welcome to the Obsolescence Club.  I have to tell you, however, you likely have it easy.  Imagine waking up to find that your G1 and G2 (even worse) were suddenly obsolete.  All the money and time invested, much of it down the drain.

Oh yes, there are always a number of people scurring around, excited like it's Christmas morning, "Oh boy, a new version of Genesis!".  The end-users who are already heavily invested are thinking, "Here we go again..."

Enjoy!

What exactly is obsolete about G8? Clothing, hair, and poses for G8.1 will still work on G8. All of your G8 characters can be loaded onto the G8.1 base. No complex tool or clunky manual workarounds needed. From what everybody is saying, G8.1 is still the exact same mesh...only with a new UV map and updated facial rig. This is not moving from G2 to G3 or G3 to G8. 

So why the high price?

Your guess is as good as mine, but folks are acting like the sky is falling when it comes to their G8 figures when they're losing exactly nothing. All of my G8 morphs show up on G8.1, so the only difference I'm seeing are improved expressions and a new UV map and skin shader.  

Victoria 8.1 is an entirely new character much like Victoria 8, Bethany 8, Charlotte 8, etc are.  Just like those characters had a bundle, so does Victoria 8.1. You can buy her alone, with her bundle (the university bundle) or just use the base Genesis 8.1. There are also improved teeth/mouth realism, a new tear geometry and a new lash geometry. I know the splash page only has the front teeth showing, but they did an amazing job updating the shape on the teeth as a whole and the tongue. 

 

Except the vellus hair is only included with the Victoria 8.1 University Bundle. That's the one that that tripped my annoyance trolley...especially because I started out only buying Victoria 8.1 and her HD add-on. The vellus hair is listed as a feature on Vicky 8.1's product page, yet isn't included unless you buy the (way) more expensive bundle. 

Even worse, Vellus hair is listed as a genesis 8.1 feature here https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1 and I almost made the same mistake!

Eboshijaana

Did a test on Demon Dog.

Normal shaders;


PBR Skin Shader;

rayglendenning

Matt_Castle said:

RCTSpanky said:

If 8.1 is "just" an update, why did we need to pay again for her the full price, when we own Victoria 8 or one of her bundles?

Because Genesis 8.1 is just an update. Victoria 8.1 is an entirely new morph/texture set, not entirely dissimilar to the difference between Victoria 8 and Olympia 8.

So why paywall a genesis 8.1 feature listed here https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1 behind victoria 8.1 pro bundle paywall if genesis 8.1 is free?

"Other Improvements Summary

• Fine, short, vellus hairs have been added for the female face and body, bringing added realism for close-up shots. For example, fine, short, and natural hairs can be seen on the arms and face.
• Body hair has been added for the male face and body.
• Male anatomical elements will now work on females. Conversely, female anatomical elements will work on males.
• Enhanced Power Pose Panel for Face.
• Enhanced Facial Control Rig."

Matt_Castle

rayglendenning said:

So why paywall a genesis 8.1 feature listed here https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1 behind victoria 8.1 pro bundle paywall if genesis 8.1 is free?

That is a strawman, as that is not the question I was answering in the first place.

There has clearly been some confusion behind the marketing, but the question I was answering was that Victoria 8.1 is a new character, not just Victoria 8 transferred to Genesis 8.1.

 

lilweep

Eboshijaana said:

Did a test on Demon Dog.

Normal shaders;


PBR Skin Shader;

wow, almost as if the shader was made for skin and not an inside-out dog  

marble

ChangelingChick said:

marble said:

Timotheus said:

kgrosser said:

Bummer, fell in that trap, too. With full body geoshells for G8 not working on G8.1 and vellus hair not included, how does one proceed to return the V8.1 purchase?

How exactly are the geoshells not working? What issues are you seeing?

Tim

I haven't scanned through the previous 300+ messages in this thread so I don't know whether this has been addressed yet but I've just tried two Meipe products (GP and Headlights) which rely on copying materials to geoshells and neither work - complaining at the MAT copy stage that there is no G8F in the scene.

What version of DS are you using? The auto-mat transfers need 4.15. As for the geoshell issues, that's being looked at but you can manually adjust them for now.

 Yes I am using 4.15 but the MAT copy doesn't work because the products are looking for a Genesis 8 Female in the scene and it doesn't recognise 8.1 ... but there are workarounds desribed elsewhere (here and on the R'otica forum). Others will probably have to wait for updates for those products to get around the 8 vs 8.1 issue and the different UV mapping. I will probably wait too because I don't see an immediate need to transfer my G8F characters to the 8.1 base.

By the way, am I right in assuming that to transfer a much-morphed character I just save a Character preset and load that to the new 8.1 base or is there an easier way?

KetsyCola

The Daz team actually gave Genesis 8.1 more believable eyes! I know it's such a small thing, but it's the little things that go a long way. I almost shed a tear when I saw it. Thank you, Daz3D!!! 

Edit: I checked for changes between the base models, and the only things I found were tear trans mesh, iris normals, slightly different UVs, and eyelash mesh placement adjust. I won't lie, I was expecting more, according to what was advertized. But that's my bad, I guess. With the changes being slightly insignificant, I can see why they only called it Genesis 8.1 and not Genesis 9.

Mr Bowen

Ugh...can it be that so many people don't read anything or just can't comprehend? V 8.1 is a new character. Buy her or don't. Either way, enjoy the free tech updates they gave us. If there are bugs in the free stuff, wait for it to be fixed. Read things. Get over it. Thank you for the new options and improvements, Daz.

Eboshijaana

lilweep said:

Eboshijaana said:

Did a test on Demon Dog.

Normal shaders;


PBR Skin Shader;

wow, almost as if the shader was made for skin and not an inside-out dog  

I'd say the shader looks AMAZING on the inside-out dog. There is more colour variation (I did NOT use different maps), the skin looks like...well... skin. And in general, it looks a heck of a lot better than the base shader did.

Hylas

I compared the face maps of G8F and G8.1F - the eyes and brows are exactly the same but the lips are not.

So one can use eye makeup and blush - be it LIE or Diffuse Overlay - but not lipstick with the G8.1 UV skins.

Mr Bowen

I will comment about the new hair. I read it as it came with it, too. That is disappointing to find it is not included.

takezo_3001

Aside from the exclusion of the advertised vellus hair, (My sole issue) G/V8.1 works magnificently, as both figures are usable with GOZ, V8.1's shaders look alright as well, though it's effects are muted with the specular rendering mode, but so is the default shaders for G/V8... Even Zev0 himself is working to update the characters the future's looking bright!

Hopefully, K.H.Image studio's Ultimate body morphs series for anatomically accurate body bends will be released for V8.1, so all and all G/V8.1 has not been as much as a disrupted change!

ChangelingChick

marble said:

ChangelingChick said:

marble said:

Timotheus said:

kgrosser said:

Bummer, fell in that trap, too. With full body geoshells for G8 not working on G8.1 and vellus hair not included, how does one proceed to return the V8.1 purchase?

How exactly are the geoshells not working? What issues are you seeing?

Tim

I haven't scanned through the previous 300+ messages in this thread so I don't know whether this has been addressed yet but I've just tried two Meipe products (GP and Headlights) which rely on copying materials to geoshells and neither work - complaining at the MAT copy stage that there is no G8F in the scene.

What version of DS are you using? The auto-mat transfers need 4.15. As for the geoshell issues, that's being looked at but you can manually adjust them for now.

 Yes I am using 4.15 but the MAT copy doesn't work because the products are looking for a Genesis 8 Female in the scene and it doesn't recognise 8.1 ... but there are workarounds desribed elsewhere (here and on the R'otica forum). Others will probably have to wait for updates for those products to get around the 8 vs 8.1 issue and the different UV mapping. I will probably wait too because I don't see an immediate need to transfer my G8F characters to the 8.1 base.

By the way, am I right in assuming that to transfer a much-morphed character I just save a Character preset and load that to the new 8.1 base or is there an easier way?

Ohhh is that a script and not a mat preset? I could see why errors could occur with a 3rd party script if it was designed specifically to look for G8F.

To the second part, your shaping presets will work already. No extra work involved. There's no transferring involved.

ALLIEKATBLUE

Hellboy said:

mmkdaz said:

Whoa! Thank you thank you! Cant wait to try out some new shaders, and the new eyes! love those eyes!

The new teeth are also great. Victoria 8.1 eyes and the new skin shader are some of my favorite stuff right now.

What is the new skin shader?  Is this only with Victoria 8.1 or does Genesis 8.1 have new skin

Hylas

Used one of Cayman's Legacy UV products on a G8.1 - the scripts don't work ("Prepare Genesis 8") but you can still make the product work with some manual fiddling. Slightly more laborous but not really difficult.

ChangelingChick

takezo_3001 said:

Aside from the exclusion of the advertised vellus hair, (My sole issue) G/V8.1 works magnificently, as both figures are usable with GOZ, V8.1's shaders look alright as well, though it's effects are muted with the specular rendering mode, but so is the default shaders for G/V8... Even Zev0 himself is working to update the characters the future's looking bright!

Hopefully, K.H.Image studio's Ultimate body morphs series for anatomically accurate body bends will be released for V8.1, so all and all G/V8.1 has not been as much as a disrupted change!

I don't have any of those, but have you loaded G8.1 to check them out? They should work on her already if you're in DS 4.15.