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I think there is a great opportunity is for new clothing textures for the existing men's items in the store. There are some nice items, but there aren't a lot of texture sets to mix things up.
I think men's clothing is also more difficult to make than women's, especially if you are making real world pieces. Men's clothing isn't normally as form fitting and has more tailoring involved.
I've found that you can do a lot with photoshop and opacity maps to change things up. For example, take jeans, load up the texture in PS, new layer black (or white, I can never remember the order) out the legs, save the layer and load it as an opacity map. Boom, jean shorts. Maybe mess with the bump map, shader and diffuse color to change the fabic type (the repair tools can smooth out the "jean" look in PS, too).
The only limit is imagination! mostly.
I agree too, everybody has a budget, and nobody wants to spend their limited dollars on content they don't need or of inferior quality, which luckily is not common here. I know that's not what I was suggesting, that anyone should be guilted into the need to buy. But the PAs decisions of what to work on, is affected by the return of investment of time, to create the product.
If a PA makes a piece of clothing that takes a week to make, regardless male or female, it takes that amount of time. and the female version sells 600 units, and the male sells 150-200 units. It is simple math all other things being equal. The only thing that can change that equations is more customers buying male clothing.
Understood. :)
But at these prices? Really??
How is demand suppose to pick up when the price gap between male and female offerings is so wide?
Understood. :)
But at these prices? Really??
How is demand suppose to pick up when the price gap between male and female offerings is so wide?
Men's clothing usually has more fabric! Fabric costs money, so male clothing is more expensive. Duh./s
The problem is that there is usually a preconceived idea as to what people who are using DS and Poser are interested in rendering, and that drives the products being made into a direction that makes the products produced only suitable for that direction. The Pro Bundles for Lee and Darius are perfect cases in point. Lee and Darius only got one "normal" outfit each while poor Gianni didn't even get that... he barely got by with one outfit with a shirt. What we have received a ton of are "skateboarder" type outfits with shorts and hoodies, things that rarely look appropriate on anything except teen-early twenties males, and almost never look right next to vast majority of outfits that are produced for the ladies.
Because, let's face it, most male clothing should be designed to work as a frame and complement to what the female half of a couple is wearing (or, in the case of the ever popular CMNF themes, not wearing), and while V6 and her gal-pals seem to have an endless supply of club wear, the male outfits that are appropriate for the same venues are practically non-existent. If all the males ever needed to wear was t-shirts and jeans, that market is pretty well covered. Decent suits and semi-formal wear for G2m? Not so much.
On the plus side, I'm really thrilled to see that IH Kang has joined the DAZ shop, as his store over at Rendo (Kang1hyun) has become one of my favorite go-0locations for realistic "normal" clothes.
While I simply view this topic as a long dead horse and usually resort to painting the bigger picture deriding social norms, I've personally solved the problem by not needing much in clothing for my men. T-shirts, torn jeans, jockstraps, loincloths, birthday suits and boots do quite well in my character's worlds. But they do have a large closet of hairpieces and body fur. Although I'm still looking for a Laddie Godiva hairpiece.
I feel just the opposite since i enjoy his store (and prices) over at Rendo also, but hope he doesn't go a different direction or change his style being a DAZ vendor now, guess we will see. The majority of my male wardrobe is his due to supported figure, quality and price.
Even though I am a huge proponent of female skimpwear, it suffers from some of the same pitfalls as male clothing, lack of designs to be specific. While there are more outfits on the market, it seems not many vendors are looking at online catalogs for ideas since there are many styles and designs that have never been touched, would love to see that change.
I totally agree.
I feel just the opposite since i enjoy his store (and prices) over at Rendo also, but hope he doesn't go a different direction or change his style being a DAZ vendor now, guess we will see. The majority of my male wardrobe is his due to supported figure, quality and price.
Even though I am a huge proponent of female skimpwear, it suffers from some of the same pitfalls as male clothing, lack of designs to be specific. While there are more outfits on the market, it seems not many vendors are looking at online catalogs for ideas since there are many styles and designs that have never been touched, would love to see that change.
I can understand your reservations, but my take on it is that there are probably a lot of people who have never even seen his work... or that of some of the other Rendo-only Genesis artists... who WILL see it now. If he sells more, then hopefully he'll make more. The prices... yeah, they're a bit higher, but not that much so, and given that he hardly ever goes on sale for more than 25% off at Rendo, it'll probably be a wash once his items start hitting the regular DAZ sale schedule and coupons apply. As for doing more "DAZ-zy" type stuff... I'm all for decently made, realistic women's outfits as well, but given that this an artist who's produced male outfits as eclectic as a Boy Scout uniform, I think they'll keep doing male as well since that's clearly a personal interest.
As a tangent to the above, there ARE some artists who're doing some great stuff with the G2s elsewhere, and I often wonder if most of the folk's who shop at DAZ even know about kang, let alone the fantastic work being done by Dariofish, Mar3d, Nvent3D, etc.
This has to be a joke. That line is hideous!
Have you guys seen the Kanye West collection??? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2951996/Kanye-s-clothes-just-fine-want-look-like-ve-forgotten-dressed.html) You could make some of that with Marvellous Designer in 2 minutes by simply not knowing how to use the program, and saving it out. Garbage -- and people pay a fortune for his stuff in REAL LIFE. You won't find that stuff on Daz3D thank god. The quality control here would forbid that.
Don't forget that many outfits made are taken from Games and other artwork and cannot be allowed to be duplicated due to copyright laws. Basic clothing can be remade, but someone made a good point -- men have very little in the real world to wear. That is reflected here in the Daz3D store as well as others. Art is fantasy, and people could create fantasyful outfits if they try hard enough. Just not copy DC and Marvel verbatim, StarGate, StarWars etc. That is illegal, so those outfits cannot be made here or sold here. However, pieces and parts could be made separately as long as not part of a collection. That might be an option.
I only render men, and over the years have realized that many new releases in the Daz store are only closely similar modified meshes that loo like they go back to M2. Just new texturing to work in the new renderers but nothing innovative. Some even have basic promo renders, that look like they were made in Poser 4 without ProPack. Sorry but there are PAs who make great stuff and really think out of the box, but for people who are HUNGRY for male stuff, there are others who KNOW that people will buy anything male because there just isn't anything else out there for them. Many of us just rework outfits in other programs like Hexagon and Blender to make them what we need, so that also kills content purchasing of new things. With AutoFit you can still reuse older outfits from M2-M3-M4 etc on Genesis 2 Male. And some of the older outfits are still today - awesome.
I think if an opinion about what people actually would wear -- well, some folks should wander out further than the boondocks in the deep south. There are nice outfits for guys, and they do wear them. If you walk the streets of Madrid, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Brussels, Lisbon and yes, even London -- you will see people taking a shot at wearing things that aren't just Lumberjack shirts, jeans and boots.
My 2cents.
Men's clothing usually has more fabric! Fabric costs money, so male clothing is more expensive. Duh./s
Actually that's true, in a sense. The more a set of clothing covers, and the looser it is, the harder it is to rig and morph up to work properly. When I started making skimpy outfits for the first time I was stunned at how much better the time input to sales ratio was (either sex; my male underwear have always been VERY profitable for me).
It took the Antfarm and me months to get the mech suits rigged and through testing, and I got sick part way through and there was a gap; and the bigger the project, the more likely that is to happen. We still made bank on it, but there's always a risk that you won't, and if we hadn't it would have been a disaster given the number of hours we had invested. And even with that - a set that was made male and then the female version added partly at DAZ's request - the female version outsold the male version 2 to 1. They were the same identical meshes.
I would guess that putting in time and effort in creating very good quality will pay off in the long run, because you are not just creating the same stuff like everyone else and people will remember that you are a vendor who creates quality products, thus even paying possible higher prices.
One would hope so, but at least one PA with a great history of previous products at other stores (and of fantastic freebies, prior to that) has sworn off doing any more male clothing due to poor sales. While there are those of us who follow individual vendors to a just short of stalker-ish degree, the DAZ store is all about NEW! and ON SALE! And there are a lot of individual vendors to keep track of. One of the things that I really like about the Rendo store is that it not only lets me track specific artists, but it will actually send me an e-mail whenever one of my favs has a new product.
The DAZ storefront went into a positive feedback loop during the late Gen3/early Gen4 era to focus on hookerware & impractical armor. It is what it is.
If you want a decent wardrobe, you will need to invest in the Michael 4 for Genesis 2 male plug-in (which is on sale today - up to 60% off). That will get you access to the Gen4 content. I would recommend all Daz Studio users try to sweet talk Slosh into making a Gen 3 for Genesis 2 plugin, to access all of the Gen 3 content (Utilize make a number of incredible outfits for M3 for sale here & the M3 Casablanca suit is still the best male suit that has been made.) Or get a copy of Poser 2014 & all of your clothing can go on any of your figures via the fitting room.
Checkout Wilmaps Digital Creations (google it), and OOT, Kang1hyun, and Lyrra over at 'Rosity.
You can also get access to Gen 3 items by using the Gen 3 clones for genesis and transfer those to Genesis 2. Paying $200 for the fitting rooms seems a bit excessive when the Gen3 clone does a far better job (since the feet positions of the gen3 figures are similar to genesis).
The DAZ storefront went into a positive feedback loop during the late Gen3/early Gen4 era to focus on hookerware & impractical armor. It is what it is.
If you want a decent wardrobe, you will need to invest in the Michael 4 for Genesis 2 male plug-in (which is on sale today - up to 60% off). That will get you access to the Gen4 content. I would recommend all Daz Studio users try to sweet talk Slosh into making a Gen 3 for Genesis 2 plugin, to access all of the Gen 3 content (Utilize make a number of incredible outfits for M3 for sale here & the M3 Casablanca suit is still the best male suit that has been made.) Or get a copy of Poser 2014 & all of your clothing can go on any of your figures via the fitting room.
Checkout Wilmaps Digital Creations (google it), and OOT, Kang1hyun, and Lyrra over at 'Rosity.
It's certainly ironic how the range of male clothing dropped even as the quality of the actual figures improved. I use a lot of M3 stuff, but unfortunately a good bit of it doesn't autofit even to Genesis well. (edit - due to seams issues, not actual fit.) Then again, the same is true of V3 to Genesis. Now, what I'd really like to see is for someone to come up with a Apollo Maximus shape for G2M. There was a lot of great stuff for Apollo back in the day and I'd think most of it would still hold up well.
M4 items in store: 773
V4 items in store: 2459
V4/M4 ratio: 3.18
G2M items: 517
G2F items: 1675
G2F/G2M ratio: 3.23
The ratio is actually about the same (3 to 1) - a difference of .05 isn't statistically significant. Data was not available on Gen 3, of course, so I'm willing to concede maybe there were more M3 clothing items.
Apollo Max clothes, though? No. They were good in their time, but they mostly don't have wrinkle sculpts or much visual detail. Like most Gen 3 items, they're going to look pretty bad next to new stuff.
Just to point this out - the numbers you list don't take into account the number of items in both lists that work on both figures (mostly hairs and product bundles.) If you take it down to just clothing and wearable, the numbers become: V4 - 808 and M4 203, G2F - 639 and G2M - 182. So that would actually seem to show an UP-tick in male clothing in Gen 6 versus Gen 4. Of course, Gen 5 still has them both beat, since Michael 5 could happily wear any of V5's outfits and, as my sig attests, apparently frequently did.
Just to point this out - the numbers you list don't take into account the number of items in both lists that work on both figures (mostly hairs and product bundles.) If you take it down to just clothing and wearable, the numbers become: V4 - 808 and M4 203, G2F - 639 and G2M - 182. So that would actually seem to show an UP-tick in male clothing in Gen 6 versus Gen 4. Of course, Gen 5 still has them both beat, since Michael 5 could happily wear any of V5's outfits and, as my sig attests, apparently frequently did.
And that's a good point, too - that's a change in ratio from 3.98 to 3.51.
I left out Gen 5 because there's no way to parse out the "male only" and "female only" outfits for it from the store.
Understood. :)
But at these prices? Really??
How is demand suppose to pick up when the price gap between male and female offerings is so wide?
I'm not sure what you mean - the Aave Nainen coveralls are the same as her G2F sets, and while the Waiter set is more expensive than the two items for G2F from the same vendor released today it is the same price as his G2F Waitress outfit.
Edited to make it clearer what I was replying to
And that's a good point, too - that's a change in ratio from 3.98 to 3.51.
I left out Gen 5 because there's no way to parse out the "male only" and "female only" outfits for it from the store.
Of course, what that doesn't take into account is product at the OTHER stores. From what I can see, G2F is starting to do pretty well at Rendo, but only a handful of vendors make products for G2M. Unfortunately, their category numbers are hopelessly off, so I can't see a point in even using those as a frame of reference.
I'm not sure what you mean - the Aave Nainen coveralls are the same as her G2F sets, and while the Waiter set is more expensive than the two items for G2F from the same vendor released today it is the same price as his G2F Waitress outfit.
You need to adjust your snark meter.....
I was referring to Nadino's post, sorry. I will edit to clarify.
I really wanted to grab the coveralls, but just couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger. I just can't see coveralls with no pockets and my skill-set isn't sufficient to fake them.
Men's clothing usually has more fabric! Fabric costs money, so male clothing is more expensive. Duh./s
I'm not sure what you mean - the Aave Nainen coveralls are the same as her G2F sets, and while the Waiter set is more expensive than the two items for G2F from the same vendor released today it is the same price as his G2F Waitress outfit.
I was responding in general like your original comment was :)
And I think Paradigm67 was being sarcastic?
I haven't bought the coveralls but I'm definitely seeing pockets in the product images, at least in the image with the white pair shown in the middle.
I haven't bought the coveralls but I'm definitely seeing pockets in the product images, at least in the image with the white pair shown in the middle.
By golly, you're right. I had to save the image and run it through PSP so I could blow it up, but they are there. Thanks! Gotta go juggle the cart now. :-)
Greetings,
I feel just the opposite since i enjoy his store (and prices) over at Rendo also, but hope he doesn't go a different direction or change his style being a DAZ vendor now, guess we will see. The majority of my male wardrobe is his due to supported figure, quality and price.I just hope he/she ups their promo game. I'm always hesitant to pick up their stuff on Rendo, because the promos look so godawful flat.They need one of the texture artists to 'adopt' them, and start producing texture packs for their products...not so much because they need new textures, but because some of the texture artists are a lot better at promo work. :)
I wishlist nearly all of their G2F/M stuff on Renderosity, but I don't end up buying it because I just can't tell if it's going to work well under scene-style lighting, different characters, what morphs it has, texture stretching issues, etc...
Now their DAZ store is already much better because it actually lists the objects included, and their morphs. Hey! The Waiter uniform has a button open morph! No way I would have known that on their 'rosity store at all. Just knowing those extra details makes me a lot more likely to 'pull the trigger' on an item.
Sure, they could have been putting that info in the 'rosity listing. But they didn't. Ever. Including the item they released today over there. DAZ makes sure it's in there, and that makes all the difference.
/vendor_rant
I'm totally going to get that Air Defender when I get paid! For that Jobsian turtleneck, if NOTHING else! :)
-- Morgan
I wish some more PA's would create more wrestling gear for G2M. I found some on DA but that guy is taking a hiatus.