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omg pleeeeease. Maybe every now and then? I love the current, if only few, male items you sell.
Well I wont say that Ill never do another male set. Dark Apocalypse has males in it, for example. But its going to be something really few and far between... and something that comes when I have time/money to burn.
I've always been a fan of uzilite's men's clothing. Funny thing, he started out making mostly Vicki clothing and then with M3 switched to mostly male clothing with the occasional sci-fi outfit for Vicki whereas Mike's clothing was more everyday and formal. I'm pretty sure sales were good too as I bought several of these outfits (although I hardly use the male figures) and I'm sure many others did too mainly because of the quality and the presentation. Of course the detail is great and he even fixed or hid problem areas with Mike 3 (shoulders) by providing morphs as well.
But like someone said, if a Vicki bikini came along and made thousands for the vendor in a couple of weeks then that would explain why we don't see uzilite clothing for the males anymore.
Luthbel is another vendor that comes to mind with awesome male clothing in a more fantasy/historical vein. Again, I'd like to believe sales are good for this vendor too since he continues to make male stuff. Like uzilite, Luthbel's clothing has great detail and is presented in an attractive fashion.
So, maybe male clothing needs more work in order to entice buyers to look away from the latest bikini or mini dress but I think people do notice quality work eventually. And sure, most of the vendors do this exclusively and need to live off what they make but there are a handful that only bring out a few items a year so it's mainly a hobby for them and that means their work is more likely to be dictated by their interests rather than simply market numbers so there is some hope :)
And finally one last point I take issue with. It really annoys me when people say " you want so and so, learn to make it". First of all, the majority of Poser/DS users are hobbyists that make pretty pictures and are happy to buy what they need to do just that. Most importantly though, if we all learned to make whatever we wanted for our hobby there would be a much smaller market as the easiest thing to learn to make is skimpy bikinis rather than realistic everyday/historical/fantasy male clothing ;)
I will also point out that earlier I in no way implied vendors were at fault.
What I said was that I wish the market felt differently/more like me.
lol I honestly don't think so. Clothing (esp detailed clothing) isnt as easy to make as folks think. In fact, its so laborious, even if u are a hobbyist, ur mental state will quickly become "I need to make some money off this" I just couldnt see idly tinkering with something that involved, and not to the end of making money. I know I wouldn't. But I think that's the point folks are trying to make here... its a job at the end of the day... we have to make what sells. We have to recuperate our time spent (though, to be fair, this expectation will be completely different at entry level, versus a professional who has done this for years... and everything in between)
I will additionally add that I put the same effort into male clothing as I do anything else (tho its been a few yrs since I did anything male) Im not sure its really fair to say the male clothing needs more work... as if we are half-hearting the attempt. Anyone who is doing this seriously, doesn't half-heart anything.... but everyone's capabilities randomly fluctuate depending on their experience level at the time its done.
On your other points, everyone's experiences are different. Everyone's innate talents are different. Some folks make more of one thing over another, coz its what they feel most comfortable with (for example, you dont see much fluff and stuff in my store, coz Im not comfortable doing it) Or maybe they are okay with losing a few dollars, because they really want to do this item versus another. Though, Im not saying their sales arent good... maybe they do better than most (there are a few vendors that seem to be an exception to the status quo of everyone else, where they do better at something that does pretty awfully for everyone else) Success is, also, a completely relative term... what I deem as success may be different for another. At any rate, we all can only go by our own personal experience. And looking at other ppl doing it, is illusionary.... without their sales data, we can only guess as to how their success is.
Well, I'm absolutely certain good male clothes will be selling. A lot of people have pointed out the lack of certain outfits or genres of outfits, like SciFi, Steampunk, Hardcore, Era-genres, Military etc, so they sure'll do their shopping when the goodies start coming their way. I pulled my credit card like a gun slinger when the navy uniform and the aviator outfits came the other month, and now I cannot wait for additional textures.
Said that, I'll also point out that there are several genres of women clothing missing too. For instance everything arctic or sub-arctic. One typical example is a Title I've been keeping my eyes open for now for a while - the "Winter Warrior". I was hoping for something like below:
instead there was some dissapointing rags which were anything but a winter outfit. For someone like yours truly who lives in the arctic and knows what winter really is about, sorry, but their idea of a Winter Warrior wouldn't last a minute in the snow. Even without being shot in the belly.
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Greetings,
While clothing is one side of the coin, I want to point out that today's I13 Daring appears to be a pretty nice pose set for the guys, and very...nice promos to look at. :)
I just had a very stern talking to over my $500/mo. 3D habit, vis-à-vis our children's desperate need for new shoes, or I'd be buying those and the shaders and the floating rocks right now... ;-)
-- Morgan
lol I honestly don't think so. Clothing (esp detailed clothing) isnt as easy to make as folks think. In fact, its so laborious, even if u are a hobbyist, ur mental state will quickly become "I need to make some money off this" I just couldnt see idly tinkering with something that involved, and not to the end of making money. I know I wouldn't. But I think that's the point folks are trying to make here... its a job at the end of the day... we have to make what sells. We have to recuperate our time spent (though, to be fair, this expectation will be completely different at entry level, versus a professional who has done this for years... and everything in between)
I will additionally add that I put the same effort into male clothing as I do anything else (tho its been a few yrs since I did anything male) Im not sure its really fair to say the male clothing needs more work... as if we are half-hearting the attempt. Anyone who is doing this seriously, doesn't half-heart anything.... but everyone's capabilities randomly fluctuate depending on their experience level at the time its done.
On your other points, everyone's experiences are different. Everyone's innate talents are different. Some folks make more of one thing over another, coz its what they feel most comfortable with (for example, you dont see much fluff and stuff in my store, coz Im not comfortable doing it) Or maybe they are okay with losing a few dollars, because they really want to do this item versus another. Though, Im not saying their sales arent good... maybe they do better than most (there are a few vendors that seem to be an exception to the status quo of everyone else, where they do better at something that does pretty awfully for everyone else) Success is, also, a completely relative term... what I deem as success may be different for another. At any rate, we all can only go by our own personal experience. And looking at other ppl doing it, is illusionary.... without their sales data, we can only guess as to how their success is.
Oh I never said men's clothing was easy to make. On the contrary I think it needs more work. And by needing more work I didn't mean just the modeling but to market it in a way that entices the buyer. Take for example uzilite's male model and the way he's posing, straight out of a fashion magazine and a slew of other male clothes posed in that awful pose that came with m3 - the contraposto, not sure of the name but the one almost everyone used. Since it's been established that mostly men use these programs and therefore shape the demands of the market an item for a male must stand out to make people want to buy it even though they may not have an immediate need for it whereas it's easy to sell 50 pairs of panties to guys who are making pinups :) But even that reaches a point of saturation and sooner or later people will want to render something different so I believe there is room for diversity even in this market. Hopefully someone will fill in where uzilite left off and we'll see more fashionably dressed guys!
Oh I never said men's clothing was easy to make. On the contrary I think it needs more work. And by needing more work I didn't mean just the modeling but to market it in a way that entices the buyer. Take for example uzilite's male model and the way he's posing, straight out of a fashion magazine and a slew of other male clothes posed in that awful pose that came with m3 - the contraposto, not sure of the name but the one almost everyone used. Since it's been established that mostly men use these programs and therefore shape the demands of the market an item for a male must stand out to make people want to buy it even though they may not have an immediate need for it whereas it's easy to sell 50 pairs of panties to guys who are making pinups :) But even that reaches a point of saturation and sooner or later people will want to render something different so I believe there is room for diversity even in this market. Hopefully someone will fill in where uzilite left off and we'll see more fashionably dressed guys!
Ah well, marketing ... thats a diff beast. Its really hard to market something thats made for one market, to a diff market entirely. Like for instance, I sell a lot of armor, sexy stuff, mystical stuff, etc... so my promos often reflect those themes. It would be impossible for me to sell that to someone who is shopping for something GQ out of a magazine. Actually, Id prolly have a hard time, even if I made a suit LOL (itd be a dood fighting off some weirdo creatures in a suit and tie looool) And I think I can unequivocally say... while I may do male clothing again, its never going to be a suit lol But I do agree the market can sustain diversity... to what degree tho, IDK. I cant begin to wax on how well suits do, coz I never sold one (if I wanted to take a wild guess, Id possibly erroneously say not very well... but thats coz theyre not my taste as far as art goes, and its not really fair to judge them based on that)
And selling one themed thing to different genres... that gets pretty tricky too. Sometimes, Ive lucked out, and its viably fit elsewhere... but some things are a stretch at best lol
Making a business suit with multiple layered pieces is the hardest thing I have ever done, clothing-wise, and I include the Furisode with the super-rigged sleeves (although that was third behind the tentacle beasties). Was it worth it? Well, it has always sold fairly well; but getting it through testing was such a nightmare that it contributed to a significant overall burnout with making clothes in general. Lately I'm only willing to go through all that for character sets, or for Antfarm (because he does the great meshes and textures). Maybe I'll get burnt out on character sets and critters and go back to serious large clothing sets at some point. Time to go get Marvelous Designer when that happens. Security! and Police! had lame initial sales but have been an extremely good long-term catalog performer.
I am curious about more gender neutral sets. That is one thing about genesis was that there was more clothing flexibility. For certain types of outfits especially those that are not skimpwear, revealing tailored clothing may not be the priority? Is this possible with gen 2?
I've tried doing that. Security actually has a bonus morph for chest bridging for autofit. Lately, though, whenever I try to do a set with Cross-Figure they ask me/us to split it into male and female products, and that adds a lot of work and a lot of promos to do (it is often worth it, but still, it adds weeks that I cannot spend doing something else).
I think the challenge with tailored clothing is the auto-fit/follow. With the older models, like M4 and V4, the body shape morphs were fairly set and standard. Vendors made the clothing and could tailor it to look good with most of the body morphs. Genesis and G2 seems to have a lot more shaping available, so planning for the morphs to look good is more challenging. The auto-fit works for clothes that are fairly snug to the body, and most fashions like that are female. The most that needs to be built in is skirt morphs.
Now that is something that isn't often looked at...and isn't often the case. Yes, 99% of the time, the initial sales will show what the trend will be for the life of the product. Those will be few and far between. But, in the case of clothing, there are some things that will probably be more like that...and they'll be basic, very versatile items. (It's those monthly totals that make a couple of consistent long term performers nice to have in one's catalog...)
I have yet to make something for sale, but out of my freebies, one of the best items, in terms of downloads, has done so over time and was one that I thought would be a flash in the pan, but it is still getting consistent downloads.
As to the freebies...there's a lot out there. And they vary in quality, some of which will rival anything in the store. Many of which are usable in any setting (commercial usage allowed), like a store product. We freebie makers are doing it for two reasons...practicing to get good enough to start selling or just because we want something that we can't find for sale (I do a bit of both). The thing is, we don't have to be concerned about 'market forces'...we aren't getting paid for it, so it doesn't matter if it sells or not. So we can afford to be able to make things that may be low volume/one offs.
A side note...all of the freebies I make (unless they are specifically 'fan art') will always be usable commercially. Just because I choose not to make a buck off of them, doesn't mean I don't want someone else to (although if you do use it in a major movie...tickets please :cheese: ).
I've tried doing that. Security actually has a bonus morph for chest bridging for autofit. Lately, though, whenever I try to do a set with Cross-Figure they ask me/us to split it into male and female products, and that adds a lot of work and a lot of promos to do (it is often worth it, but still, it adds weeks that I cannot spend doing something else).
That's too bad. The outfits you have made are excellent, and illustrate something I wish we could have- more flexibility in a single product.
Being forced to buy two copies of the same hair, the same outfit, the same stuff. Is quite an expensive endeavor. In situations like that, I probably do the opposite of what most people do. I buy the male version.
That's too bad. The outfits you have made are excellent, and illustrate something I wish we could have- more flexibility in a single product.
Being forced to buy two copies of the same hair, the same outfit, the same stuff. Is quite an expensive endeavor. In situations like that, I probably do the opposite of what most people do. I buy the male version.
Actually most people buy the bundle, believe it or not. The female version usually does better by about 2 to 1 on the separate sales even on a non-"sexy" product like the mech suits.
Just funny thing. when I do buy clothes (which I don't much anymore because of having items from years ago). I never really look if its male or female. I know not many can look at it the same way I do but everything is unisex clothing and everything fits Genesis. including Posers bases. if it has an OBJ file I mod it to fit. lol Once and a while I will throw a guy in a render and say to myself shoot, I need to make the clothes work. Clothes in general just has to stick out for me to buy it.
Now I will say this kinda off subject. there was a suit called s001 or something that I wanted to buy at ...another site. and it wasn't for sale anymore and about a couple of months later ElorOnceDark made XTech for Genesis 2. This is where I really started to notice I didn't need to switch my base mesh (Genesis). It looked better then the other suit I wanted and if I really wanted to A fleet of male characters could wear it. What makes this on subject is with Genesis I don't think about male female, I buy guy clothes if its something I want for my girls.
Another thing to keep in mind is this. most woman have more clothes then men to in the real world (ask my wife).
Well, interestingly enough, 3 JoeQuick Male outfits just hit the FastGrab Bin
Cutting loose: http://www.daz3d.com/cutting-loose-for-lee-6
Vandals : http://www.daz3d.com/vandals-for-genesis-2-male-s
Jaunty: http://www.daz3d.com/jaunty-for-genesis-2-male-s
I can already pretty much put together Cutting loose from stuff I have, But Vandals has some pieces I'm missing. I'm still up in the air about Jaunty, but I'm not sure if that's because of the promo pics, or the fact the people I've met who would wear that outfit are not usually the kind of people I get along with....
Have you read through the licensing gobbledygook? I can't figure out if a stand alone license gives me the power to sell stuff or do I need to dish out thousands to use their product like that?
Have you read through the licensing gobbledygook? I can't figure out if a stand alone license gives me the power to sell stuff or do I need to dish out thousands to use their product like that?
Yes, you can with the $500 version, because if not a bunch of my fellow artists are in big trouble. ;) If you've bought a skirt in the last year from this store, there's at least an even chance its workflow involved MD. (And I'm not giving away what artists have told me, they haven't; you can tell if you've looked at the program and at the products.) It's become an unofficial standard because it is so good at what it does.
The other thing, though, is if you read them, the "enterprise" license is intended for multi-computer corporate setups.
Need some wrestling gear for G2M.
MEC4D has one:
http://www.daz3d.com/mec4d-wrestler-suit-for-genesis-2-male-s
you can get gloves in
http://www.daz3d.com/mma-shorts-and-gloves-for-genesis-2-male-s
or
http://www.daz3d.com/fm-fight-club-clothing
I have commented on the dire mens clothing situation many times before....BUT....somebody did comment that more textures for existing clothing would be great help towards more variety.
Back a couple of weeks ago I was hunting everywhere for some male mesh top clothing and....NOW....we have these mesh shaders from the PA Denki Gaka http://www.daz3d.com/super-shaders-mesh-magic which I have just purchased.
They are totally amazing. Select your characters item of clothing, and then you are instructed to first choose and apply the type of mesh you want, then the scale of the mesh, then the colour, and finally the type of finish, for example Bump, Specular, Glossiness, etc
This product is one of 5 available, and I see that another one is specifically for armour and fabric. I can certainly say that the Mesh Magic shaders totally transform the clothing and work extremely well in Iray.
:-)
Ooo, nice, Musicplayer. I had wondered how well they'd work in Iray...
I've noticed a lot of 3Delight shaders convert rather nicely, but I was reluctant to buy shader packs until I heard more.
Well, I can only comment on 'Mesh Magic' as this was the one I purchased, but I am sure the others work just as well seeing they are from the same PA. With so many different meshes, and the various scale sizes of the mesh, and colours to choose from, the PA has certainly put a lot of thought and work into this product, and I am delighted with my purchase.
:-)