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Comments
Really cool bundle. Unique character and textures. Glad I purchased.
I have to agree.
HEAVEN TO BETSY, looking at everyone's renders of, as @Serene_Night has so excellent termed them, "The Kwans"
...
Think I need a cigarette...
But on a related and somewhat more serious note, big clap to Daz for giving us 2 young Asian males in their core range (Leeand now Kwan) who are H.O.T and avoiding the ever present cultural stereotype (still very much propogated by Hollywood and television shows) that ALL Asian men are either a) physically small borderline sexless power nerds, or b) effeminate J/K-Pop stars *eye-roll*
Well, I like Kwan and kayo, though I don't care for her name. and the bundles have a lot of good things in them, (these new ones, not kayo's original bundle, I'm just not that into wrestling anymore)but just a bit out of my price range at the moment even after the banner giving 3 extra bundles. so sorry, but gonna pass for now.
Ha!
I posted this to the Kayo thread, but I'll add it here. Not my best work, but I just wanted to prove that it works.
(Now I need to figure out how to add the upside-down Omega (COURAGE AND HONOUR!!!! UPSIDE-DOWN OMEGA MEHREENS!!!), the Aquila, the Purity Seals, etc. There's also the clunky Backpack thing, but I think I can construct that out of bits...)
yup, this is the stuff my dreams are made of :D
now, how much harder on a system (a lame, old system) does this HD addon weight? i mean, how much longer does a render need compared to the standard figure? i never go over 2 sub on a NON-HD figure otherwise everything crashes/freezes... so while this looks excellent, i'm worried about buying an addon i'll never use (in fact, i have no HD addons at all yet)
Even at subD 2 the HD details will enhance the figure. By having the normal maps on, you can easily approximate the fine detail of a higher subD model.
so keeping the normal maps on will lag/freeze/crash my system less than using a higher subD or HD addon? because i often use scene optimizer, and there you can either/or/both delete or leave the normal maps, go up/down with subD etc - and i usually do both lower the subD level AND kill the normal maps. otherwise, crash & burn..
I don't know the answer to that, but generally normal maps are used to mimic HD without using the same amount of resources. They are used a lot in gaming for example.
I suggest you time a render comparing a subD2+ model without normal maps versus a subD1 with normal maps. And maybe also time for both subD and normals. That should give you a better idea of what will be optimal for your setup.
makes sense to test all 3 possibilities.. thanks for the advice, duly noted.
however, not sure how/when i can do that... i only render while i sleep - in the early moning hours - because i use my laptop all day when i'm awake (and absolutely no way i can use any other program, browser, movie viewer, game while it renders!). srsly, except for chores like tending to my companions or cook, which don't take that long, and certainly not as long as any render in the usual size (hours!), i live joined at the hip with my machine. it's my only source of recreation (no tv, game console, humans) and since covid, i don't even go out for shopping.
problem is, when i check my renders when they are finished when i wake up (or during a longer absence of hours, IF i actually were absent, same thing), THE RENDER PANEL HAS CLOSED, I CAN'T SEE HOW LONG IT TOOK... so i'd end up with 3 renders of the same scene/figure in 3 different qualities - and still wouldn't know how long they took. the only thing i'd notice is if one of the choices totally froze/crashed my system immediately - which is also a way to tick off choices i guess
Open the Log (Help > Troubleshooting > View Log File) and, assuming you've not done anything else since you did the render, near the bottom you will find something like this:
2020-07-23 14:43:54.773 Finished Rendering2020-07-23 14:43:54.805 Total Rendering Time: 27.56 seconds2020-07-23 14:43:54.819 Loaded image r.png2020-07-23 14:43:54.844 Saved image: C:\Users\vagab\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4\temp\RenderAlbumTmp\Render 1.jpg2020-07-23 14:44:00.518 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.0 IRAY rend info : Device statistics:2020-07-23 14:44:00.525 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.0 IRAY rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce GT 1030): 96 iterations, 6.894s init, 18.499s render2020-07-23 14:44:00.525 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.0 IRAY rend info : CPU: 100 iterations, 2.322s init, 23.764s renderOf course, your numbers will be a lot higher - the only thing in this was a single G8F - but as you can see, this rendered in about 28 seconds. Of that time, my graphics card spent 7 seconds on initialising and 18.5 seconds rendering, whilst my CPU spent 2.3 seconds initialising and 23.7 seconds rendering.
thanks a lot, @Vagabond Elf ! i didn't even think about the log. i hardly ever look at it, unless i have error msgs or sth. didn't realize rendering details were there too!
that's cool, now i can do my subD/normal maps tests and compare!
As Vagabond Elf pointed out, you can view the log to see how long the render took. "Go to Help" >> "Troubleshooting" >> Then hold Down Control and Click on "View Log File". (For some reason, it won't pull up the log unless you hold down Control while clicking on it. I think Richard explained to me once why it takes holding down Control to get it to open, but I can't recall exactly what he said.)
I did some quick render tests. Each render was saved as a scene first, then Daz Studio was closed and rebooted between each render to ensure no memory issues were effecting the render times. The render tests came up with some surprising results.
Kwan 8 NON-HD with his Default settings - Render time 2 Min 45 Sec:
Kwan 8 with his HD Dialed In with his Default SubD and Default bump and normal settings - Render time 2 Min 45 Sec (the same render time as the version without the HD dialled in):
Kwan 8 with his HD Dialed In with SubD increased to 3 and Default bump and normal settings - Render time 2 Min 50 Sec:
And this is where it was really interesting to me. The NON HD version of Kwan with just the Bump Map settings and Normal Map settings increased took longer to render than Kwan with his HD Dialed In and his SubD increased to 3. I didn't believe it at first so I ran the test twice. Both times it took over 3 minutes to render, while none of the other variations took that long.
Kwan 8 NON-HD with his Bump raised to 7 and his Normals raised to 2 - Render time 3 Min 12 Sec:
To me, the NON HD version with just the Bump Map and Normal Map settings increased look the best (to me at least) but it also took the longest to render. I'm going to do another test to see what SubD of 4 looks like - to see if I can match the same level of detail as just increasing the Bump and Normal settings, and see how long that level of SubD takes to render vs just increasing the map values/settings on the NON HD version.
Thanks very interesting @divamakeup thanks for running the tests. Out of interest, what subD level are the non-subd characters at in the scenes (subD 1?)
Kwan 8 (NON HD) loads in at SubD 1 w Render SubD 2 - so I increased the SubD to 2 (wich slides the Render SubD to 3 but I brought the Render SubD back down to 2 so that they were both matching). For the tests I made sure both SubD and Render SubD were at the same level for each test. The NON HD versions rendered at SubD 2 and Render SubD 2.
Thanks Diva. Wonder if subD 1 at render with normals speeds it up much. Thinking of slower systems with less vram and more complicated scenes.
Oh good thinking - I'll try and test that and do the Non HD version at SubD 1 and then bump up the Normal Map and compare to the other variations' render times.
thanks a lot @Divamakeup for running those tests! ofc my render times will be totally different, lol... but it shows proportionally all the same what seems to take longer, less, and how it looks. i think too that #4 looks more life-like (well.. not that i've ever seen such a muscle guy for real so near in my whole life, i live under a rock).
i have to run tests of my own too - because while i render when i sleep so render time per say isn't the most important, if the scene/fugure is too heavy, it's just gonna crash/freeze. and i think the maps there are more of an issue than the hd/subD definition, but i might be wrong
Ok, here's Kwan 8 with the HD Dialed in and SubD level 4 - Render Time: 3 Min 3 Sec
While this gets pretty close to the level of detail I'm seeing with just bumping up the Bump Map and Normal Map settings (and it did render a little faster), it's not quite there. I think a subD of 5 would put it at the same level of detail as increasing the Normal Map and Bump Map settings - HOWEVER (and this is a HUGE however) many computers CAN NOT handle subD 5 - including mine. I tried twice to render him at SubD 5 and the first time Daz Studio froze up for a few minutes and my computer got super laggy. So I closed down Daz Studio again. Waited a few minutes, and tried again. The second time my entire computer froze up and never got "unfroze" even after waiting for quite a while. So I had to do a hard reboot of my computer. I DO NOT recommend SubD 5 unless you have a new-ish computer and/or a fairly robust graphics card.
*fans your computer* yeah I doubt Kwan is even sculpted at subD 5. That's hard core lol
well.. according to the best computer, subD overkill also freezes the whole schtuff.... and i was always worried about the maps first. i'll test how this works on mine... later during my sleep, lol.
anyways, i didn't even know normals can go higher than 1, i thought this kind of map had like 1 standard value, unlike bump or disp... 10-12 years DS, and i still have no clue about anything, it's embarassing.
and yes, the "best" result is still the one done with the maps... at least under this light. maybe with a very different lighting, normal maps won't be seen very well, and the "real" 3D will come out more? like contrastful lighting...
Here's Kwan 8 NON HD with SubD 1 with his Bump raised to 7 and his Normals raised to 2 - Render Time: 3 Min 10 Sec (2 seconds faster than at SubD 2):
Here's something else surprising to me - just using the Normal Maps to get the details, and bring the Bump to 0 seems to yield the fastest render times of any of the variations.
Here's Kwan 8 NON HD with SubD 1 with his Bump maps lowered to 0 and his Normal map settings raised to 4 - Render Time: 2 Min 21 Sec:
(I had to manually place the Normal Maps back in as increasing the Parameters of the Normal maps past their default limit of 2 placed the "arms" normal map in all the skin slots, so I had to manually put the Face, Torso, and Legs Normal maps back into place).
These tests, to me, are pretty surprising. It seems an odd contradiction: While the HD renders, in general, faster on my machine then simply increasing the Bump Map and Normal Map settings, the HD also appears to be a lot more taxing on my system over-all. And using only the Normal Map on the NON HD figure to get the details and dialing out the Bump Map seems to render faster than any of the other variations. Though it doesn't look quite as good in close-ups without the Bump Maps, for mid to distance renders and for older machines, that seems like that could be the way to go if faster render times are your main aim.
Sorry for the Test Spam, everyone!
I think what I've learned from these tests* is: If your aim is faster render times and you have a newish machine or good graphics card, then rendering HD (at least for close-ups) is probably the way to go? If you have an oldish machine or not so great graphics card and your aim is faster render times then rendering at SubD 1 with the Normal Maps turned way up for the details and the bump maps turned down to 0 might render the fastest. For close-ups, you're probably going to want some of that bump dialed in though.
All in all, I really like that one seems to be able to get a decent level of detail with pretty fast render times with JUST bumping up the Normals settings and dialing the bump to 0. Seems like it might be a good option for mid-range to distance shots.
*Disclaimer: These are just tests on one person's computer which may be very different from your computer - so your mileage may vary.
Just because I was curious, his lower buttocks have the same problem. While he's standing, no problem. Bend his legs and he has some very pronounced, oddly shaped lines.
The cynic in me is presuming the skin wouldn't have made it through QA, if this was one of Vicki's gal pals.
Enjoy this free render of Kwan
Getting a lot of Jet Li vibe.
I think having reviewed the bundle, I really don't think a lot of this was designed to go together or that this is a complete pro bundle.
3 characters to me doesn't make a male pro bundle. One of the hairs isn't even his, it's Kayo's. The superhero and the toony space marine outfit, seem designed for different figures. The promos of the Crusher outfit show toony figures.
I like some of it, but I really have to wonder why the rush to push out something like this, when a few more characters, and related items, would've made Kwan 8 a bundle to remember. The content for Kwan that is designed for him looks good. But throwing kitchen sink items, and not stuff made for Kwan in the bundle seems a poor decision. kwan himself, and his figures are excellent but it just seems rushed and kind of cheap to reuse a hair and put stuff clearly not made for the figure in the pro bundle.
I don't have to hold down CTRL. I just experimented with it, and CTRL-Clicking opens the folder the log file is in. Just clicking "View Log File" simply launches Notepad and opens the log.txt file. I'm still on D|S4.11, for whatever that's worth.
Also, thanks for the series of tests - I rarely use HD myself, but given the morphs came with this one, perhaps I'll experiment a little.
Nope. Daisy 8 also has shadows or creases under her glutes baked into her texture; they look good if she's just standing, but have her touch her toes and they stretch super badly.