Genesis 8.1 / Victoria 8.1

outrider42

Charlie Judge said:

davidtriune said:

the only benefits of g8.1 seem to be:

-better teeth (can extract to g8)

-eye tear line (can be fitted to g8), and

-FACS (can buy for g8).

g8 already has thick eyelids (with eye rim refine HD morph) and eye sockets (with morphs)  the SSS doesnt seem to have changed, just dialed down in amount. The micro tiling doesn't seem that big of a deal since you can get similar results with a single 8k texture. 

 

good work towards realism but they can push further. what I'd like to see in a big genesis update are photogrammatry-based 8k HDR textures, and more realistic expressions (like the ones in Auto Face Enhancer) and body JCMs

How are you exracting the teeth to G8 and  fitting the eye tearline to G8?

There is no extracting the teeth. The better teeth Daz talk about are for Victoria 8.1, just like the vellus hair they touted, and this was done with better textures and sculpting, not new teeth. The geometry of Genesis 8 and 8.1 is exactly the same.

The new tear attachment can simply be autofitted to any Genesis 8 character, or any Genesis for that matter. I imagine a G8.1 clone for autofit might help, but since they have the same geometry as 8 it probably isn't an issue. I have already fit the tear to several G8 models. It worked for me. Just keep it at none and none for the two options in the autofit menu.

I know you didn't ask, but autofitting the new lashes is bit more finnicky, and might be just slightly off on a character. Maybe fitting them to the default G8 first would help. I didn't dig into that.

daveso

Oso3D said:

I'm just... adoring how much better the eyes look.

And being able to use all the aging/youthing/etc shapes; those are usually my biggest obstacle to wanting to move generations.

(victoria 8.1 skin with a few minor tweaks)

real nice. Does this use V8.1 HD as well?  

plasma_ring

Oso3D said:

I'm just... adoring how much better the eyes look.

And being able to use all the aging/youthing/etc shapes; those are usually my biggest obstacle to wanting to move generations.

(victoria 8.1 skin with a few minor tweaks)

Wow, that's stunning! I love what you did with the skin and it's nice to see that it's pretty flexible. 

I had fun transferring one of my figures over, but actually ended up completely redoing her with Victoria 8.1 as a base because it fixed a bunch of stuff that was bugging me about her old shape. She's using RY Alison's skin plus the PBR shader, and I can already tell I'm going to enjoy trying to make it do unrealistic things for postwork setup purposes, muahahaha.

 

Calliope23

It's a bit off topic, but I just wanted to thank DAZ and all the PA's invovled for the hearing aid and sign language products in the Victoria 8.1 University Bundle. It's nice to see some inclusivity. I have hearing impaired friends, and they thought this was awesome when I told them about it.

https://www.daz3d.com/hearing-aid-poses-and-expressions-for-genesis-8-and-81

https://www.daz3d.com/z-sign-language-alphabet-for-genesis-81-female-and-victoria-81

sunstonepictures

ChangelingChick said:

 

Characters made moving forward on the new base UV sets will have improved texel density. Also the tear geometry and eyelash geometry are much improved. The FACS facial rig for expression is also pretty darn spiffy if you ask me. It's much easier to get a natural expression in the new setup. 

Where is the FACS facial rig located?  I have looked all over and can't find it!  Does it have to be purchased or is it included in the Genesis 8.1 update?  Thanks in advance. 

Wicked Whomp

sunstonepictures said:

ChangelingChick said:

 

Characters made moving forward on the new base UV sets will have improved texel density. Also the tear geometry and eyelash geometry are much improved. The FACS facial rig for expression is also pretty darn spiffy if you ask me. It's much easier to get a natural expression in the new setup. 

Where is the FACS facial rig located?  I have looked all over and can't find it!  Does it have to be purchased or is it included in the Genesis 8.1 update?  Thanks in advance. 

Look under Anatomy. It would have been better placed under Utilities IMO.

darko66

sunstonepictures said:

Where is the FACS facial rig located?  I have looked all over and can't find it!  Does it have to be purchased or is it included in the Genesis 8.1 update?  Thanks in advance. 

First you need to update Genesis 8 Female Starter Essentials. Aftet that tool is located in

People ->Genesis 8 Female -> Developer Kit

When is loaded you can use dials or mouse with Universal tool (Alt-Shift-U).

More about saving you will find in author threed about tool:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/466666/genesis-8-1-face-controls

Wicked Whomp

darko66 said:

sunstonepictures said:

Where is the FACS facial rig located?  I have looked all over and can't find it!  Does it have to be purchased or is it included in the Genesis 8.1 update?  Thanks in advance. 

First you need to update Genesis 8 Female Starter Essentials. Aftet that tool is located in

People ->Genesis 8 Female -> Developer Kit

When is loaded you can use dials or mouse with Universal tool (Alt-Shift-U).

More about saving you will find in author threed about tool:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/466666/genesis-8-1-face-controls

It's under Anatomy when using the smart content filter though, Daz making things more confusing than it needs to be as always.

Wonderland

I don’t understand why new clothes and pose products are no longer compatible with G8. If that’s true, my shopping is pretty much done here. I have zillions of expressions for G8 that I combine and create my own. I have a product that adds a geoshell to add even more expressions. I can’t imagine having more expressions than what I already have, especially when combined with visemes which I heard are MISSING from G8.1 

I’ll try out G8.1 maybe buy a PA character or two but I have no intention of switching to G8.1 as my main character if I can’t use all my old expressions. So this means I won’t be able to purchase any clothes, poses or hair going foreward? Is someone going to at least create a clone? This makes no sense to me... This may be a good thing. I already have enough content to last a lifetime, this is probably a good time to stop buying.

necroscension

DAZ_Ty said:

Nosiferret said:

You know. *drags out a small soap box*  Each figure they roll out there is a strong emphasis on some kind of realism. Way back in V3 days, the eyes were always weird and I don't think were addressed until V4. Then there was a head pounding time trying to get the skin to look as real as possible, to make that 2d skin appear 3d-real. Merchants worked hard with each new model. Took a while for the eyes to catch up but we're about there, some merchants got it, others need help. So with the release of 8.1, tweeking the need to make Vic smile look more like a smile as one reason for rolling out 8.1. So why after all these years, hasn't there been an improvement on tats? Today it seems there is a huge need for female figures to be covered in tattoos, then slap a $25 price tag on the model and put it in the market . If you're doing to do that, can you please take the time to make the tattoo appear real instead of it looking like some childs temp tats they got out of a cracker jack box. All the tats I see on these models are super low 2d, there is no life or vibrance in them. We take the time to make the skin appear real and then destroy that effort with an ultra flat tattoo over 3/4 of the body. Please research how real tattoos look on real skin, the shading, how dimensional they look, a 3d image on a 3d figure. 

Hey Nosiferret,

Thanks for your feedback! Digital realism is the standard we are striving to hit daily! Tattoos, in particular, are actually really near and dear to my heart – I have two full tattoo sleeves. For Victoria's 8.1 tattoos we collaborated with an incredibly talented Canadian tattoo artist named Birdie. She created these custom tattoos for Victoria specifically, and worked with us to determine placement, coloring, and ultimately how to apply it to the skin shader to get just the right amount of skin detail!  The feedback on Victoria 8.1, and the tattoos has been extremely positive, and we hope you enjoy creating with her!

If you want to check out Birdie’s work, you can see it here: https://www.instagram.com/birdietattoos/

I haven't had a chance to play around with V8.1, but the promos with the tattoos are horrible... They look like body paint or decals, not tattoos. "Certainly not," was my first impression. I'm not downing Birdie's work, just the promos.

On another note, I've felt my renders have gotten darn close to the almost real mark, and was getting ready to check into adding microskin textures. I do have to give thanks for that addition, and for the change with the eyes/lashes. The previous lashes tend to get lost in renders, especially with males.

wizard1200

I think that it would be great to get HD moprhs of every new 8.1 character.

The RED Crown

Wonderland said:

I don’t understand why new clothes and pose products are no longer compatible with G8. If that’s true, my shopping is pretty much done here. I have zillions of expressions for G8 that I combine and create my own. I have a product that adds a geoshell to add even more expressions. I can’t imagine having more expressions than what I already have, especially when combined with visemes which I heard are MISSING from G8.1 

I’ll try out G8.1 maybe buy a PA character or two but I have no intention of switching to G8.1 as my main character if I can’t use all my old expressions. So this means I won’t be able to purchase any clothes, poses or hair going foreward? Is someone going to at least create a clone? This makes no sense to me... This may be a good thing. I already have enough content to last a lifetime, this is probably a good time to stop buying.

That is why i don't use G8F more , until i get sure it be the last update .
 ( when G9 release )
i don't trust DAZ . they don't have clear road map .

Paintbox

Wonderland said:

I don’t understand why new clothes and pose products are no longer compatible with G8. If that’s true, my shopping is pretty much done here. I have zillions of expressions for G8 that I combine and create my own. I have a product that adds a geoshell to add even more expressions. I can’t imagine having more expressions than what I already have, especially when combined with visemes which I heard are MISSING from G8.1 

I’ll try out G8.1 maybe buy a PA character or two but I have no intention of switching to G8.1 as my main character if I can’t use all my old expressions. So this means I won’t be able to purchase any clothes, poses or hair going foreward? Is someone going to at least create a clone? This makes no sense to me... This may be a good thing. I already have enough content to last a lifetime, this is probably a good time to stop buying.

 I believe and from my testing poses, clothes and morphs still work. Only products that rely on expressions (as in facial expressions) and scripts might need an upgrade.

shadem980

An experiment taking Victoria 8.1 (with the help of many collected morphs over time) to come to a male version end result with slight tweaking of the shader. This has been quite fun to test out the new visuals.

 

Wonderland

SPaintbox said:

Wonderland said:

I don’t understand why new clothes and pose products are no longer compatible with G8. If that’s true, my shopping is pretty much done here. I have zillions of expressions for G8 that I combine and create my own. I have a product that adds a geoshell to add even more expressions. I can’t imagine having more expressions than what I already have, especially when combined with visemes which I heard are MISSING from G8.1 

I’ll try out G8.1 maybe buy a PA character or two but I have no intention of switching to G8.1 as my main character if I can’t use all my old expressions. So this means I won’t be able to purchase any clothes, poses or hair going foreward? Is someone going to at least create a clone? This makes no sense to me... This may be a good thing. I already have enough content to last a lifetime, this is probably a good time to stop buying.

 I believe and from my testing poses, clothes and morphs still work. Only products that rely on expressions (as in facial expressions) and scripts might need an upgrade.

The new products that just say they’re compatible with 8.1? I read somewhere that all new products won’t be compatible with G8. 

Wicked Whomp

Wonderland said:

I don’t understand why new clothes and pose products are no longer compatible with G8. If that’s true, my shopping is pretty much done here. I have zillions of expressions for G8 that I combine and create my own. I have a product that adds a geoshell to add even more expressions. I can’t imagine having more expressions than what I already have, especially when combined with visemes which I heard are MISSING from G8.1 

I’ll try out G8.1 maybe buy a PA character or two but I have no intention of switching to G8.1 as my main character if I can’t use all my old expressions. So this means I won’t be able to purchase any clothes, poses or hair going foreward? Is someone going to at least create a clone? This makes no sense to me... This may be a good thing. I already have enough content to last a lifetime, this is probably a good time to stop buying.

I don't see why they even removed the visemes morphs. The previous Face Control that is a separate product worked fine alongside them. If this is a case of "well they look bad if users combine them", then that should have been left to us to choose whether or not we want to use them, just like every other expression pack.

Honestly, I chose not to buy the V8.1 bundle for this very reason. I have too many morphs that rely on other morphs that no longer exist to bother. Without being able to use my other morphs, while the skin updates look nice they're not nice enough.

I'll continue to play around with the 8.1 face controls to better get familiar with it in case they bring said morphs back, though until then I'm sticking with 8.

nemesis10

Wonderland wrote: The new products that just say they’re compatible with 8.1? I read somewhere that all new products won’t be compatible with G8. 

That is incorrect.  There are some expressions that don't work because of new facial bones, some small extra steps to deal with geoshells and L.I.E.'s due to changes in UV's, some scripts that may not work initially though all the usual suspects say they are updating them, but that is about it in terms of incompatibity.  Everything else including some pose based expressions work including all clothes (excluding tinkering with clothes that require geoshells), all poses with the exception of those pesky facial bones, all props etc... Almost everything you buy in terms of clothes, hair, body poses, etc will work on either figure. Morphs also work on both figures though you need the current version of Daz Studio for them to populate G8.1 automatically.

The RED Crown

there is update Genesis 8 Female Expressions .

Carola O

[quote] Richard Haseltine said:

Not sure if anyone else has announced this yet, but since it's been a hot topic: we have been told that the Velus etc. hair will be added to the Victoria 8.1 Base for new and existing purchasers sometime today. It will also be included with future 8.1 base characters. [/endquote]

I am, wondering what happened to this, it was said that the vellus hair would be added to Victoria 8.1 yesterday. It's still not there now that I checked.

alanthompson9187

I don't like the way they have advertised this version as better for rendring realisam, then add an extra paid version of hd for details, think thas a rip off, 

necroscension

alanthompson9187 said:

I don't like the way they have advertised this version as better for rendring realisam, then add an extra paid version of hd for details, think thas a rip off, 

What's a ripoff is repurposing older content into newer bundles, or using the same content in mutliple bundles. Yeah, you usually get a discount for already owned content, but sometimes that is a joke, and I feel like I'm getting robbed if I'm buying two bundles where two-four items are the same... Case in point the current V8.1 bundles (and A LOT of the recent bundles). Yes, there is a discount, but even then it's a joke. 

Mark_e593e0a5

The RED Crown said:

Wonderland said:

I don’t understand why new clothes and pose products are no longer compatible with G8. If that’s true, my shopping is pretty much done here. I have zillions of expressions for G8 that I combine and create my own. I have a product that adds a geoshell to add even more expressions. I can’t imagine having more expressions than what I already have, especially when combined with visemes which I heard are MISSING from G8.1 

I’ll try out G8.1 maybe buy a PA character or two but I have no intention of switching to G8.1 as my main character if I can’t use all my old expressions. So this means I won’t be able to purchase any clothes, poses or hair going foreward? Is someone going to at least create a clone? This makes no sense to me... This may be a good thing. I already have enough content to last a lifetime, this is probably a good time to stop buying.

That is why i don't G8F more , until i get sure it be the last update .
 ( when G9 release )
i don't trust DAZ . they don't have clear road map .

I am pretty sure they do have a clear roadmap. Given the number of G8.1F products available on release day, the PA's did know way in advance what is coming up. You could not do that without a roadmap. But I would appreciate if they would let us participate, at least a bit. Some DAZ official(!) statements with regard to e.g. compatibility of items would be very much appreciated. Don't get me wrong, the information from forum moderators and PA's is very valuable, but it is not, as such, official.

ibearwoof_2eab6f8df6

Why not just use Hexigon to rebuild the obj backwards to fit genesis 8?

lilweep

Oso3D said:

I'm just... adoring how much better the eyes look.

And being able to use all the aging/youthing/etc shapes; those are usually my biggest obstacle to wanting to move generations.

(victoria 8.1 skin with a few minor tweaks)

eyes were always one of the worst things about Daz figures.  the new tear geometry and other updates works wonders! 

Asari

outrider42 said:

apocalypse_cow said:

That really only leaves the face rigging as the only new true feature, and that is why G8.1 cannot use them while it can use everything else.

And thus why this is only a 0.1 revision, as the face rig is all that changed. Everything else here can be done on past models. Of course I appreciate the improvements, it is just weird how they are being handled as if they are new features of Genesis. The shader is a new Daz Studio feature

The UVs were also redone. And they changed some of the facial morphs i think - the new FACS style controls also only work with 8.1

Something like new UVs + new facial rig + some (backwards compatible) add-ons is pretty much exactly what I would expect from a .1 release - iterative upgrade, not a complete do-over.

I would argue that UV changes are design choices, not genuine upgrades, and certainly not a feature (as I was talking about the new features Daz is touting, not just basic changes). All the UV does is change how you make the textures, that is all. You could already largely work around the lower pixel density in the neck by simply using a higher resolution torso map. Several G8 characters already do that. Plus, because the seam for the UV was behind the ear and where the chin and neck meet, this was typically not visible in most renders even with regular 4K textures. Now that the seem is located right on the collar bone, this could actually create a whole new problem. Because now if you are not very careful you could end up with a seam along the collarbone, and that area is much more visible in renders unless you have a turtleneck.

They basically split the torso in two. The other skin UVs are exactly the same. The eyes are the other UV that got changed. This one is also a weird move. On one hand it is better than the extremely foolish way that G8.0 had the pupil in a totally different location than the iris, and the iris in trun was separate from the sclera. I believe this is was pretty dumb, so placing the iris with the sclera and pupil is certainly better. But the way they did it is not ideal. Go take a look at your G8.1 textures and compare to the old 8.0. You will notice that the iris now takes up way less realistate on the texture map compared to the iris on G8.0. What??? This is literally the issue we had with the neck area on the torso, and Daz actually repeated this mistake for the eyes!

If also look, you will find that default Genesis 8.1 does NOT have round irises. Nope, she has actual straight sides on her iris, and this is clearly visible in renders of her. How that got through QA is...well it isn't surprising anymore to me.

Anyway, this is what the eye UV needs to do. It appears that Daz wants the UV maps to be square. OK. Then split the left and right eye into separate UVs. Then make the entire eyeball texture together as one single piece, so that the sclera, iris, and pupil can all seamlessly blend together, even if the texture the user makes happens to cross UV lines between them. This will actually help people make better eyes because you will not have to fight the UV map in order to make the eye texture. 8.1 kind of does this, but I think the result is too small. The iris takes up so much less space now. This means that if PAs want more detail they will need to use much larger eye texture maps to get even close to same detail level they could with every past version of Genesis. Genesis 1.0 characters have larger iris textures than Genesis 8.1. Let that sink in.

So the UV map alterations are not what I would consider upgrades, and why I did not include that detail in the new features. The face rigging I mentioned. The face morphs have not changed, otherwise that would have broke the back compatibility. Even tiny change in the shape of G8.1 would break a lot of morphs. So no, there are no structural changes in any way to G8.1. The upgrades are all in the rigging, and only the face rigging at that. 

There is indeed a face rig for G8.0, and it functions the same way. But the face bones in G8 are different from G8.1. But yeah, even G8.0 has a similar face controls product, so 8.0 users can enjoy much of the benefit of that product as well if they pick it up.

I haven't played with G8.1 yet ... after I found out we only have G8.1F and no Male base figure now. Well I am not interested in the female at all, lady time I've rendered a female was over half a year ago. Not gonna play around with the female figure for now ... I'm waiting until daz releases G8.1M and hope it doesn't take 3 months, that would be hilarious.

But outrider what you said here is very interesting. I thought the way how the eye UV was laid out was pretty impractical and also uncommon. It annoyed me so much that I went to a 3D app and changed the UV into one UV shell with sclera, iris and pupils. But I used a separate tile for each eye and had eye left and eye right ... I understand your point that this makes UV space for the iris way smaller which I find unfortunate, especially in extreme close-ups, and give the sclera so much more UV space but I couldn't think of any better solution. Also, if I have a look at how other artists build eyes, this seems to be the common approach.

But to both eyes on one UV tile? I don't think I'm gonna like it. I will experiment with these once the male figure arrives. Currently from what I know I would use the new geometry and my own UV set.

Frinkky

outrider42 said:

I know you didn't ask, but autofitting the new lashes is bit more finnicky, and might be just slightly off on a character. Maybe fitting them to the default G8 first would help. I didn't dig into that.

Or keep the old G8 lashes, just apply an 'invisible' material to the EyeMoisture surface (basically all specular and cutout opacity to zero).

Anim

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

CHWT

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

The iris is kind of... polygonal, just not round. Any fix for this?

Thyranq

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

Yeah I noticed that too - quite a bit jagged... 

Thyranq

CHWT said:

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

The iris is kind of... polygonal, just not round. Any fix for this?

I tried increasing subdivision, I can tell you that that doesn't help