Genesis 8.1 / Victoria 8.1

CHWT

Thyranq said:

CHWT said:

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

The iris is kind of... polygonal, just not round. Any fix for this?

I tried increasing subdivision, I can tell you that that doesn't help

Will enlarging the iris on the texture map so that it fades into area which belongs to the sclera help?

TomCatOliver

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

Are you using DS 4.15?

That little black artifact in the corner of the eye below the lacrimal showed up for me when I loaded 8.1 base in DS 4.12 (I have both installed and forgot I was currently using the older version). You need to be using 4.15 to get G8.1 to load properly. The black bit is caused by the Tear not rendering correctly in pre 4.15 I think.

TomCatOliver

CHWT said:

Thyranq said:

CHWT said:

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

The iris is kind of... polygonal, just not round. Any fix for this?

I tried increasing subdivision, I can tell you that that doesn't help

Will enlarging the iris on the texture map so that it fades into area which belongs to the sclera help?

Yes, retexturing the map is what is needed. The polygonal iris isn't a geometry problem, it's just painted onto the texture map. Really needs a fix and update. It would take someone 5 minutes to sort it out.

CHWT

Odd_Platypus said:

CHWT said:

Thyranq said:

CHWT said:

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

The iris is kind of... polygonal, just not round. Any fix for this?

I tried increasing subdivision, I can tell you that that doesn't help

Will enlarging the iris on the texture map so that it fades into area which belongs to the sclera help?

Yes, retexturing the map is what is needed. The polygonal iris isn't a geometry problem, it's just painted onto the texture map. Really needs a fix and update. It would take someone 5 minutes to sort it out.

Yes, but looking at Anim's render it looks like the n-gon of G8F iris has more sides than that of G8.1F ???

TomCatOliver

CHWT said:

Odd_Platypus said:

CHWT said:

Thyranq said:

CHWT said:

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

The iris is kind of... polygonal, just not round. Any fix for this?

I tried increasing subdivision, I can tell you that that doesn't help

Will enlarging the iris on the texture map so that it fades into area which belongs to the sclera help?

Yes, retexturing the map is what is needed. The polygonal iris isn't a geometry problem, it's just painted onto the texture map. Really needs a fix and update. It would take someone 5 minutes to sort it out.

Yes, but looking at Anim's render it looks like the n-gon of G8F iris has more sides than that of G8.1F ???

Here's a quick render with another iris overlaid onto the default map, covering the edges of the original iris. Ignore the problem with the pupil, that's just because the pupil area on the iris texture I used isn't completely black. But as you can see, the iris edge is easy to fix. But DAZ should do it, not us.

 

CHWT

Odd_Platypus said:

CHWT said:

Odd_Platypus said:

CHWT said:

Thyranq said:

CHWT said:

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

The iris is kind of... polygonal, just not round. Any fix for this?

I tried increasing subdivision, I can tell you that that doesn't help

Will enlarging the iris on the texture map so that it fades into area which belongs to the sclera help?

Yes, retexturing the map is what is needed. The polygonal iris isn't a geometry problem, it's just painted onto the texture map. Really needs a fix and update. It would take someone 5 minutes to sort it out.

Yes, but looking at Anim's render it looks like the n-gon of G8F iris has more sides than that of G8.1F ???

Here's a quick render with another iris overlaid onto the default map, covering the edges of the original iris. Ignore the problem with the pupil, that's just because the pupil area on the iris texture I used isn't completely black. But as you can see, the iris edge is easy to fix. But DAZ should do it, not us.

 

Yes, especially not everyone has graphic software handy (gimp is free though and I use it all the time)

davidtriune

Frinkky said:

Charlie Judge said:

How are you exracting the teeth to G8 and  fitting the eye tearline to G8?

You can change the scene identification for the tear addon from G8.1 Female to G8 Female.

 

davidtriune said:

the only benefits of g8.1 seem to be:

-better teeth (can extract to g8)

-eye tear line (can be fitted to g8), and

-FACS (can buy for g8).

g8 already has thick eyelids (with eye rim refine HD morph) and eye sockets (with morphs)  the SSS doesnt seem to have changed, just dialed down in amount. The micro tiling doesn't seem that big of a deal since you can get similar results with a single 8k texture. 

 

good work towards realism but they can push further. what I'd like to see in a big genesis update are photogrammatry-based 8k HDR textures, and more realistic expressions (like the ones in Auto Face Enhancer) and body JCMs

8k textures are not a valid alernative for large scale scenes. Each map will take 4x the vram. I've had reasonable results by sloting a small, tiling, microskin normal map in to the top coat bump channel and a similar tiling cavity map into reflectivity channel of the dual lobe section (getting the right tiling amounts for each material zone takes a bit of fiddling, or use the ratios used in V8.1's detail section). This produces good detail without the overhead of a full suite of 8k maps - the only issue is there's no way to use a map to control the strength as per the new shader, but the detail is small enough that you'd have to look at an extreme close up to spot seams.

G8 already has JCMs (created for the base G8 figure with adjustments for official Daz characters) as well as flexion morphs. 

I agree more needs to be done in future generations. There's some topology issues I'd like to see addressed.

not exactly 4x, since DAZ is using a 4k normal map on top of the 2k texture, so overall its still ~6k. it would make sense if it was just a 2k map though. (i dont get why they dont just make the normal as part of the hd morph)

JCMs like skeletal protrusions of the hip bone and things like that. Though I dont think this is possible to simulate realistically with JCMs alone

 

MelissaGT

Does anybody know if there is a way to get/use the new shader Detail and AO maps in combinations with the old(er) dual-lobe specularity? I kind of...really don't like the new dual-lobe shader. It seems to require you to reverse/invert your reflectivity maps (with G8 they are typically on the darker side with white = shiny...but with V8.1, the map is reversed). In trying to update a G8 skin (say Babina 8) to the new PBR shader, you end up losing a lot of her skin reflectivity detail. 

davidtriune

melissastjames said:

Does anybody know if there is a way to get/use the new shader Detail and AO maps in combinations with the old(er) dual-lobe specularity? I kind of...really don't like the new dual-lobe shader.

Is it any different ? the only difference I see is the roughness multipliers..

CHWT

melissastjames said:

Does anybody know if there is a way to get/use the new shader Detail and AO maps in combinations with the old(er) dual-lobe specularity? I kind of...really don't like the new dual-lobe shader. It seems to require you to reverse/invert your reflectivity maps (with G8 they are typically on the darker side with white = shiny...but with V8.1, the map is reversed). In trying to update a G8 skin (say Babina 8) to the new PBR shader, you end up losing a lot of her skin reflectivity detail. 

Will inverting Babina's reflectivity map help? It's already in grayscale to begin with.

Anim

CHWT said:

Odd_Platypus said:

CHWT said:

Odd_Platypus said:

CHWT said:

Thyranq said:

CHWT said:

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

The iris is kind of... polygonal, just not round. Any fix for this?

I tried increasing subdivision, I can tell you that that doesn't help

Will enlarging the iris on the texture map so that it fades into area which belongs to the sclera help?

Yes, retexturing the map is what is needed. The polygonal iris isn't a geometry problem, it's just painted onto the texture map. Really needs a fix and update. It would take someone 5 minutes to sort it out.

Yes, but looking at Anim's render it looks like the n-gon of G8F iris has more sides than that of G8.1F ???

Here's a quick render with another iris overlaid onto the default map, covering the edges of the original iris. Ignore the problem with the pupil, that's just because the pupil area on the iris texture I used isn't completely black. But as you can see, the iris edge is easy to fix. But DAZ should do it, not us.

 

Yes, especially not everyone has graphic software handy (gimp is free though and I use it all the time)

Agreed, the edginess is caused by the texture itself not the geometry. The artifact in the lacrimal happens with latest Studio beta. The lashes surface is not realy usable in my opinion. The pupil should at least be black not gray or better it should be cut out and the inside of the eye should have its own texture. Anyway, nothing that we can't fix ourselves but might be not so nice for user not familiar with texture editing etc.

CHWT

Anim said:

CHWT said:

Odd_Platypus said:

CHWT said:

Odd_Platypus said:

CHWT said:

Thyranq said:

CHWT said:

Anim said:

Default 8.1 eyes - well, I think there is room for improvement.

The iris is kind of... polygonal, just not round. Any fix for this?

I tried increasing subdivision, I can tell you that that doesn't help

Will enlarging the iris on the texture map so that it fades into area which belongs to the sclera help?

Yes, retexturing the map is what is needed. The polygonal iris isn't a geometry problem, it's just painted onto the texture map. Really needs a fix and update. It would take someone 5 minutes to sort it out.

Yes, but looking at Anim's render it looks like the n-gon of G8F iris has more sides than that of G8.1F ???

Here's a quick render with another iris overlaid onto the default map, covering the edges of the original iris. Ignore the problem with the pupil, that's just because the pupil area on the iris texture I used isn't completely black. But as you can see, the iris edge is easy to fix. But DAZ should do it, not us.

 

Yes, especially not everyone has graphic software handy (gimp is free though and I use it all the time)

Agreed, the edginess is caused by the texture itself not the geometry. The artifact in the lacrimal happens with latest Studio beta. The lashes surface is not realy usable in my opinion. The pupil should at least be black not gray or better it should be cut out and the inside of the eye should have its own texture. Anyway, nothing that we can't fix ourselves but might be not so nice for user not familiar with texture editing etc.

Let's hope that the G8.1M texture maps are more decent. It was literally love at first sight when I first rendered G8M in his default textures.

MelissaGT

davidtriune said:

melissastjames said:

Does anybody know if there is a way to get/use the new shader Detail and AO maps in combinations with the old(er) dual-lobe specularity? I kind of...really don't like the new dual-lobe shader.

Is it any different ? the only difference I see is the roughness multipliers..

Yes, as I mentioned, it appears to follow a reverse methodology...if you look at V8.1's reflectivity map, it's light with dark highlights instead of what we were used to seeing with G8.  

MelissaGT

CHWT said:

melissastjames said:

Does anybody know if there is a way to get/use the new shader Detail and AO maps in combinations with the old(er) dual-lobe specularity? I kind of...really don't like the new dual-lobe shader. It seems to require you to reverse/invert your reflectivity maps (with G8 they are typically on the darker side with white = shiny...but with V8.1, the map is reversed). In trying to update a G8 skin (say Babina 8) to the new PBR shader, you end up losing a lot of her skin reflectivity detail. 

Will inverting Babina's reflectivity map help? It's already in grayscale to begin with.

I tried that...it still didn't seem to help. You end up losing a lot of the gorgeous detail she has between her brows and on her forehead. She ends up looking kinda like she's been airbrushed (more flawless) because you're missing those little highlights. I'll have to post up a comparison.  

CHWT

melissastjames said:

CHWT said:

melissastjames said:

Does anybody know if there is a way to get/use the new shader Detail and AO maps in combinations with the old(er) dual-lobe specularity? I kind of...really don't like the new dual-lobe shader. It seems to require you to reverse/invert your reflectivity maps (with G8 they are typically on the darker side with white = shiny...but with V8.1, the map is reversed). In trying to update a G8 skin (say Babina 8) to the new PBR shader, you end up losing a lot of her skin reflectivity detail. 

Will inverting Babina's reflectivity map help? It's already in grayscale to begin with.

I tried that...it still didn't seem to help. You end up losing a lot of the gorgeous detail she has between her brows and on her forehead. She ends up looking kinda like she's been airbrushed (more flawless) because you're missing those little highlights. I'll have to post up a comparison.  

Man, would DAZ please give us a free tutorial on using the new shader settings? They already gave us G8.1F free after all.

CHWT

melissastjames said:

CHWT said:

melissastjames said:

Does anybody know if there is a way to get/use the new shader Detail and AO maps in combinations with the old(er) dual-lobe specularity? I kind of...really don't like the new dual-lobe shader. It seems to require you to reverse/invert your reflectivity maps (with G8 they are typically on the darker side with white = shiny...but with V8.1, the map is reversed). In trying to update a G8 skin (say Babina 8) to the new PBR shader, you end up losing a lot of her skin reflectivity detail. 

Will inverting Babina's reflectivity map help? It's already in grayscale to begin with.

I tried that...it still didn't seem to help. You end up losing a lot of the gorgeous detail she has between her brows and on her forehead. She ends up looking kinda like she's been airbrushed (more flawless) because you're missing those little highlights. I'll have to post up a comparison.  

By the way, did you try kicking up the contrast when inverting the Babina reflectivity map? As you said you lost the details. It might turn out a little bit more rough than how it originally looks on G8F though..

Frinkky

davidtriune said:

JCMs like skeletal protrusions of the hip bone and things like that. Though I dont think this is possible to simulate realistically with JCMs alone

Now that would be good, but you're right, a generic solution (such as flexion morphs) wouldn't necessarily behave realistically as it wouldn't apply to some characters (eg. obese characters where the skeleton is deeper in the tissue). Something with granular control, similar to how Zev0's Skin Folds & Creases appears to work might go some way (Zev0 - new product idea; get to work! )..

Jabba

Vellus Hair Update...

...On the Victoria 8.1 product page in my order history, Vellus Hair has been added to the bottom with "This product is a bundle that contains the following product...  Genesis 8.1 Female Vellus Hair"

So it's definitely coming...  SOON ! ! !

mumia76

I'm baffled why would you release an incompatibility causing update so late in the product cycle. I have a ton of G8 expressions that simply do nothing on 8.1. So what am I to do? Toss dozens of expressions out that I like and frequently use? Nope, I'll simply ignore G8.1 and any product released without backwards compatibility for G8. The update and benefits are too minuscule for it to worth tossing anything out let alone my favorite experssion morphs.

takezo_3001

Carola O said:

[quote] Richard Haseltine said:

Not sure if anyone else has announced this yet, but since it's been a hot topic: we have been told that the Velus etc. hair will be added to the Victoria 8.1 Base for new and existing purchasers sometime today. It will also be included with future 8.1 base characters. [/endquote]

I am, wondering what happened to this, it was said that the vellus hair would be added to Victoria 8.1 yesterday. It's still not there now that I checked.

Hopefully, it will be released today... I have been refreshing my DIM ever since, and the only thing we got yesterday was an update on G8.1's expressions...

Jabba said:

Vellus Hair Update...

...On the Victoria 8.1 product page in my order history, Vellus Hair has been added to the bottom with "This product is a bundle that contains the following product...  Genesis 8.1 Female Vellus Hair"

So it's definitely coming...  SOON ! ! !

Ahh, now I can guess the reason for the delay from yesterday, they needed to repackage it as a separate item, and maybe they just simply did not have enough time to do it!

Frinkky

Anim said:

Agreed, the edginess is caused by the texture itself not the geometry. The artifact in the lacrimal happens with latest Studio beta. The lashes surface is not realy usable in my opinion. The pupil should at least be black not gray or better it should be cut out and the inside of the eye should have its own texture. Anyway, nothing that we can't fix ourselves but might be not so nice for user not familiar with texture editing etc.

Daz has clearly used un-subsdivided UVs to create the map - but UV's should subdivide along with the base mesh which doesn't seem to be happening here. A texture fix solves this problem, but I think it hides an underlying issue.

Edit: to illustrate my point, see attached. 

 

CHWT

Can anyone enlighten me whether the change in uv is due to benefits gained when porting to other applications? The seam at the collarbone is making me stressed, as I do like to customize skins.

vukiol

plasma_ring said:

Ryselle-Ryssa said:

The seemingly easier expression features is of course tempting... On the other hand: I have so many Genesis 8.0 characters aquired, that it is just frustrating.

So, I will wait until one noble soul creates a converter

It works no differently than it would transferring your characters from a Victoria 8 base to a Babina 8 base. To do this I loaded Genesis 8.1 Female and added the materials, shaping preset, and anatomy addons from the character's folder just like with G8F. 

wow! i like it!!!!

Frinkky

CHWT said:

Can anyone enlighten me whether the change in uv is due to benefits gained when porting to other applications? The seam at the collarbone is making me stressed, as I do like to customize skins.

I can't see why there would be benefits in that regard. The only benefit is that now the neck and scalp have higher pixel density*. The main body texture maintains the same density as standard G8F.

Edit: * pixel density assuming all surfaces use the same map dimensions eg. 4k x 4k. Obviously using a larger map for the body would increase the pixel density, at the cost of more vram usage.

Visuimag

Yeah, the eyes put Studio characters up there with some of the better Zbrush models (as a Zbrush artist, this particular gen is important for me). Most of my DAZ art include some form of Z refinement, but with 8.1, I don't have to use as many.

CHWT

Frinkky said:

CHWT said:

Can anyone enlighten me whether the change in uv is due to benefits gained when porting to other applications? The seam at the collarbone is making me stressed, as I do like to customize skins.

I can't see why there would be benefits in that regard. The only benefit is that now the neck and scalp have higher pixel density. The main body texture maintains the same density as standard G8F.

Okay that won't do much for me as my characters are not bald... but more details in the neck area is nice

Richard Haseltine

ibearwoof_2eab6f8df6 said:

Why not just use Hexigon to rebuild the obj backwards to fit genesis 8?

Which geometry?

Daikatana

Well, this is interesting.  While the product store page does state that the Vellus hair is included with the victoria 8.1 figure, that is apparently NOT the case.  While I did put in a sales support ticket, those have been taking so long to answer recently that it just adds to my frustration.  I had held off on purchasing the V8.1 figure in large part because of the somewhat misleading advertising-which I am choosing to believe was unintentional but with the statements on the forum that DAZ3D was including it with V8.1, I decided to go ahead with the purchase.  Now, I find that even though the product store page states it is included, it is still apparently NOT included.  I have uninstalled -and made sure to delete the download package- via DIM and still no vellus hair. Hopefully someone here can advise me?

Masterstroke

Wonderland said:

I don’t understand why new clothes and pose products are no longer compatible with G8. If that’s true, my shopping is pretty much done here. [...]

Here's a little work around for clothes and props:
Scene Tab -> Edit -> Scene identification -> Prefered Base
Set it Genesis 8/Female
then conform your 8.1 clothes to Genesis 8 Female

takezo_3001

Daikatana said:

Well, this is interesting.  While the product store page does state that the Vellus hair is included with the victoria 8.1 figure, that is apparently NOT the case.  While I did put in a sales support ticket, those have been taking so long to answer recently that it just adds to my frustration.  I had held off on purchasing the V8.1 figure in large part because of the somewhat misleading advertising-which I am choosing to believe was unintentional but with the statements on the forum that DAZ3D was including it with V8.1, I decided to go ahead with the purchase.  Now, I find that even though the product store page states it is included, it is still apparently NOT included.  I have uninstalled -and made sure to delete the download package- via DIM and still no vellus hair. Hopefully someone here can advise me?

I guess that it was delayed due to Daz needing to package the item, but that's my guess, Daz needs to confirm that, anyway it's coming soon as it's located on the V8.1 product page.