Commentary on The Daz 3D Non-Fungible People Holiday Challenge
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So they paid $650K for a link to a picture of a ship model, and not the actual model itself? Or am I still missing the sheer ridiculousness of this whole NFT thing.
NFT's, Altspace/Metaverse (which appears to be an early beta of Second Life for now).
Meh, no, thank you.
Same opinion...
Currently I don't really care for NFTs, I don't particularly resist change but I do rather wait until stuff actually becomes a "thing" and not just a "fad" so I don't waste my time. But I do find funny the blind zeal of some people hating on it around these forums, even funnier on the NFT subforums... hopefully this gives some of them a better perspective on it but somehow I doubt it:
https://youtu.be/N560E3PNQoQ
On the other hand...
"Non-Fungible People
As Non-Fungible People, we're a NFT collection of women and non-binary people all about doing things our own way. We're here to have a good time, join us!"
As a man I guess it's not for me then, keep your free thing and call me when you open a Daz discord for everyone
I think what some people are missing is that's it's less of a generational divide than what some of us feel are ethical issues.
Without going through explaining the whole thing again for the Nth time, NFTs are minted using the same basic methods as Cryptocurrenies, and these are all to some degree vastly wasteful of energy, generating huge amounts of greenhouse gasses and waste heat in the process... regardless of what anyone at the moment says, the science says it's not a great time to be heating up the planet more at such a scale.
And that not even remotely touching on the exploitive “Fear Of Missing Out” sales tactics employed by many in pushing NFTs, or all the illegal activities that crypto has been used to untraceably fund.
So there is that.
Then there is the Meta/VR thing... VR on its own is freaking great, it's fully immersive and amazing and will only get better... but the slant on this which we all keep getting pummeled with, ultimately keeps leaning towards the social media aspects of this “new world”, like for example, about how you can "wear" a virtual walrusman costume as your VR social media avatar.
Yay...
but it's really the social media aspect that many people are fed up with... I honestly don't know what to tell people who don’t understand other people's aggravation and resentment towards social media as it stands.
If you are not aware of all the bad things that have come to fruition recently, all the negative things these companies have done, and continued to do after they realized it was bad, that’s one thing… but knowing about it and pretending “it’s nothing” is on you.
And yes, I know the Metaverse and Facebook/Meta are two different things, but they and most social media companies are chomping at the bit to become fully entrenched in every aspect the Metaverse in one way or another to the point where they are unavoidable.
That’s not me, that’s pretty much the summary of their own words in press releases and lectures.
So that’s not coming out of nowhere.
It’s not about age, it’s about “maybe some of this ain’t right, and if you don’t address that, I’m not on board with it”… And sorry, but a company promising they’ll do something, maybe, perhaps, one day in the undefined future, maybe, perhaps, is absolutely meaningless.
I can’t speak for others, but I’m sure most of the folks objecting here don’t give a flying fig’s fart what you spend your money on… if someone wants to pay $20 for an image of a Beanie-boo doll locked away in mountain vault in Tibet that they get to share with two hundred other people and don’t own the rights to, that’s their business… but if that actual Beanie-boo is spewing out tons of greenhouse gases, maybe people should be bothered by that part… it’s not the collecting, it’s the environmental damaging that’s objectionable.
Same with VR, I don’t care if you want to wear a llamacorn costume when you visit your insomniac sea captains group, that’s not the problem… its neither sea captains or insomnia people are objecting to… it’s that the place hosting that meeting is one way or another responsible for a lot of nefarious crap, and even if it’s not the exact same in virtual world version of their services yet, it probably soon will be because they have no incentive to not do it again in VR, “engagement” equals cash bro… in fact they’ve all expressed (swooned on it really) that the VR aspect of social media is way more lucrative because of all the virtual merch you can sell people… So engagement + virtual merch = untold riches.
When did vast wealth with no consequences ever lead to bad things?
So really, it’s not about being on top of cool trends or being a Luddite stuck in the past…. It’s about objecting to things we should all be concerned about.
Unless you got some other planet you intend to move to when this one is on fire?
Yeah, the whole crypto thing has a whiff of nihilism about it. It's primarily all about destroying what's there without thinking through whether the proposed replacements are fit for purpose or sustainable. That's just how we humans do things, I guess. It's not like previous generations thought things through, either.
I can't top @McGyver 's eloquence on the topic, so I'll just cheer for what he has to say here.
Ditto. It's not that I'm against the concept of the metaverse, etc...it's that I'm against the monetization and exploitation that invariably comes with it. I'm reminded of an episode of Futurama, where the gang dials into the interweb, and is immediately inundated with a paywall and infinite levels of exploitation hovering above everything. More people need to watch that show, because through all the ridiculous humor and exageration, it can be surprisingly prophetic.
I had a conversation with my boss the other day...she has an 11yo daughter and she said what we had to go through as kids (she's 44 and I'm 40)...is *nothing* like the storm of utter feces kids have to go through today, especially girls, growing up inside social media.
ChadCrypto, thanks for the detailed explanation. The game-related NFTs make some sense, especially if you can earn them in-game. As you said that is primarily where you deal with NFTs, perhaps someone else might be able to answer my original question though - why does anyone think that these 'artistic' NFTs will increase in value? You mentioned *how* they can (by being resold, etc), but I'm still waiting for anyone to explain WHY someone would spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on a virtual piece of art that not only everyone else can own via right-click or printscreen, that you cannot hang on a wall or place on a shelf, and that has no real logical *reason* to increase in value.
The very first 3D render I ever posted online (possibly the first finished 3D art I ever made) is likely floating around on the internet somewhere. It's 23 years old and I do not even have a copy. It's a curiosity and perhaps interesting to anyone who follows my work or knows me, but why should it be worth anything? If someone made it into an NFT, would I buy it back? No, I'd say "wow, that guy found it", right-click to Save Image and then report him for art theft.
I think the concept of NFTs is interesting, but certainly not the current iteration of them. Right now it really feels like a bubble waiting to burst.
Nope. There's zero appeal in this promotion. Zero.
I'm not adverse to technological progress but I'm not going to touch anything NFT unless mass thorium or fusion power becomes more than the engineer wet dream.
Thank you, McGyver and MelissaGT, and others, for the excellent summaries of the issues!
Just to illustrate that this is NOT a generational/neo-Luddite issue, my college-age sons are even more opposed to NFTs and similar trends than I am. They and their friends have largely withdrawn from FB and other "mainstream" social media. They have warned me in great detail about the social and environmental impact of NFTs, Cryptocurrency, the MetaVerse/VR, etc. I have been involved with computers about as long as there have been computers, and have been reading science fiction voraciously since the '50s, yet they are even more aware of both current and potential problems than I am. I think this is a vary hopeful sign.
I would characterize Cryptocurrency and NFTs as equivalent to paying a large sum of money for a description of the aroma of a bowl of soup instead of getting real soup.
I think the marketplace will quickly sort out what works and does not work with NFTs, and if artists can use them to help make a living, that's fine. I am just not interested.
I seem to have hit a nerve with my generational comment :) I'm not in the younger group either so take it as an observation from my group of friends the same age as me that's not involved in tech - glad to hear that its not prevalent.
That is my hope too - will solve so many problems :)
@McGyver there are times when I don't completely appreciate your sardonic wit or completely agree with some of your more serious points but your post above hits all the right marks for me. I'm not American but I do follow the news from there as it inevitably affects us all and the revelations from the Facebook whistleblower is one story I have been watching and I feel aggrieved at the cavalier attitude of MZ and his enablers towards the real tragedy of ruined lives caused by social media pressure. The whistleblower said that the prevailing attitude is "profit before people" and that's the same vibe I get from this NFT nonsense (and @MelissaGT gave a good example of that utter nonsense).
They sent me back here:
Kolan: There is a thread at their forum addressing the problem, maybe you find some help there? https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/535326/discord-server-signup-and-coupon-questions-issues/p1
No you just don't understand how crypto curriences work. Proof Of Stake has no more impact on the enviroment then rendering a image or playing an online game. The total coin supply is mined all at once, and at the lowest diffculty. Which uses low power and can be done on one computer. Unlike Proof of Work. Which takes years and years to mine those curriences. Adn with thousands and thousands of CPU and GPUs which takes super amounts of power!
Well, I think I can answer why certain NFTs are worth something. Is because they have been minted. And now they are forever part of the blockchain of whatever currency, So no one can own that mint of NFT, unless that owner sells it. It has it's own hash. Which makes the piece unqiue. I too do not understand how some of these NFTs can be worth so much. Most of the art NFTs I have bought have been 1.00 to 20.00 usd. And then you just hold them for the future when they might rise in price. That is why I invest more in the game NFTs. Utility is the key for me in the NFT world.
Well your kids and you are wrong mostly. As I have stated, not all crypto is the same. Most crypto these days are green and safe for the enviroment. It's the granny cuurencies like Bitcoin and it's early children. Like Etherium that have the most impact on energy consumption. Where as the Proof Of Stake coins, are the nearly zero impact on energy consumption. Once you learn this, then you will understand. It is complicated world to navigate. I have been in the crypto world since 2013. So much has change and will continue to change. It's not going anywhere, it's the future and it's here to stay. Wether you like it or not. Wax On!
Please explain this for us: what, exactly, are you investing your money in? As I understand it (which is not well) you don't own the artwork, you don't own the copyright to the artwork, you don't even own a share of the artwork ... what do you own? A token? Which benefits you how? Isn't it just a meaningless token which can be bought and sold in the hope that its value will increase even though it has no intrinsic value of its own? If so, we are moving into the world of crazy.
And if someone decides to mint your artwork and profit from it? How does one prevent or fight that?
And as the token does not hold the digital item, just a link to it, what is the token worth after the link goes down?
Or, if the buyer finds oneself having been scammed, how and where does one take it to get ones money back from an anonymous seller that may live anywhere in the world?
NFTs would be better as unforgeable receipts for unique copies physical art but then who pays the bookkeeping in perpetuum? Who pays & secures access to the receipt from the unauthorized? And how and why would the buyer and seller know that the NFT receipt was not a forgery itself? I know they ain't got the expertise or resources to verify validity.
NFTs are not the artwork, in general (and I think the exceptions are mostly very small files). If the data in the NFT is a link to your artwork it doesn't do anything but potentially generate a few more hits. If someone puts your artwork up to advertise an NFT, or displays a copy to show what the NFT points to, then you'd have the same rights and recourses as for any other form of infringement.
Someone that I follow on another site had a piece of work stolen, and uploaded to an NFT site. They only found out about it via a "work protection feature" on that site.
From what I've read on the NFT forum here, on news sites, and what that artist had to go through to get their art removed from an NFT site... You can definitely count me out.
interesting link... I suspect we'll see more art museums adding an nft section :)
http://www.geekwire.com/2021/tech-entrepreneurs-opening-seattle-nft-museum-to-showcase-digital-artform-in-a-physical-space/amp/
NFT is not a medium, it's not an art form, the whole thing is just an advertisement for NFTs. That's like saying you're going to set up a museum based on whether the art was purchased with a credit union account.
That's not even a real established museum, that's someone opening an NFT-advertising private art gallery and calling it a museum.
But if you go to the museum to look at the art pieces? I've seen some really amazing pieces that I would not have seen otherwise so exposure to art is there - NFT is the medium like oil or acrylic. So far the whole process is certainly stirring up enough high feelings which has always been a component of art mvements - just look at Duchamp's toilet that's worth $2 million :)
https://behavioralscientist.org/the-2-million-urinal-why-hard-work-doesnt-cut-it
NFT is not a medium. NFT is just a string of numbers attached to whatever was made in whatever medium. It's not art.
Majority of modern art hardly even qualifies as art. What populates modern galleries won't be remembered by anyone except for maybe prices people were willing to pay for an few abstract paint splashes.
Those artists hardly are Da Vinci or Rubens. Or Rembrandt. Or anywhere close.
Because I don't need any strings of numbers to look at and appreciate The Night Watch, but any of this NFT "art" will not be worth any remembrance a few decades from now.