Commentary on The Daz 3D Non-Fungible People Holiday Challenge
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That was in 1985
Very well put, @McGyver. Thanks for that. Also, where can I get that time machine again?
@ChadCrypto, look, I was trying to be fair and appreciate the points you made, please don't reply with such sweeping assumptions as there's simply no way we can have a meaningful discussion about these things then. Again, I think pos mining is a good development if compared to pow, but the whole endeavor of cryptomining really has no worth in itself that I can see except enabling people to make money off of electricity and computer power. There's no necessities fulfilled by it, no pleasures to be experienced or other new and enlightening experiences to be had; there's no art; there's simply nothing added to life for anyone, except money.
Granted, there's one possible exception to be made for people living in countries with unstable currencies; I don't know enough about that subject to have any kind of informed opinion. But I'm quite sure that these are not the people buying up all the hardware and trading meaningless tokens for hundreds of thousands of dollars. So these people are not causing the problems.
I do understand in a way that it must be exciting to feel you're able to mint yourself some real money, without any involvement of any government - or any actual work, for that matter - but if all we ever ask ourselves is whether we CAN (and like to) do something and never ask whether we SHOULD, things are just gonna keep sliding downhill. And no bitcoin is gonna buy anyone a new planet.
Apart from all that, I'm also really REALLY annoyed, like others here, that DAZ keeps pushing NFTs at us like that. Now even the holiday sale has more than halfway disappeared from the front page, the deals are meagre to say the least, and I feel intentionally, so that people are drawn to the discord deals. Didn't this use to be a site for artists and hobbyists of 3d creation? I want THAT site back please!
Yes, I agree with both @tsroemi and the quoted @McGyver post above. All well said.
I dunno, I looked at the Daz3d hashtag on Twitter the other day and all I got was a bunch of stuff about Daz partnering with some group called Fight Back Apes who apparently are in an arguement with another group called Evolved Apes, and something about a rug pull, and all the big $$ they're going to make partnering with Daz3d.
I think the most ironic and saddest part of this is lot of talk about making money and no talk about making art
that is what i meant. NFT games. Not regualar games.
Well , I just came back from the main common section. Plently of talk about creating art. Why spend time in a NFT post then? ifi you don't like them. Just move on to the next topic. I don't spend time going to places I don't like.
I've read all of this thread and still see nothing that convinces me that this isn't the pet rock of the 2020s and / or a "make fake money button" inside DS. Which would go well with the old "make are button" jokes.
I dunno, I looked at the Daz3d hashtag on Twitter the other day
Emphasis on the word "Twitter".
'Could' and 'Should' are such great words and seem to be used interchangeably way too much these days.
I do have to say the only nft related art i've liked is the person who downloaded a bunch of nft images and turned them into a mosaic of someone right clicking
Sure if you use a DeLorean, but they barely even reach 88 mph... mine are ancient alien technology that can only be acquired from very unique dealers of such wares, and only if you know where to find them...
Exceptional points, and 110% spot-on for games - there is no meaningful business case for a for-profit business to dedicate its resources to allowing you to freely import a ton of things which will prevent you from spending your money with them. It's like a restaurant allowing you to bring in a three-course meal from the place next door, but still use their drink fountains for free AND take up one of their tables. There is some room wiggle room - maybe you bring in a ton of paying friends, or the place is a start-up that wants to show a relaxed attitude, or the place is desperate and just wants to make it look like they're popular and have a huge selection of food. None of those reasons will last long - either the place will go under or become successful enough that they want that money themselves.
Still, I think there's an even bigger issue here: why would I want to keep using the same thing for years on end? Technology evolves, quickly, and obsoletes much of what we have. Just look at Daz stuff from 5-10 years ago. Some of it has aged very well, others....uh... they were great for their time. Hairs, trenchcoats, armors, skin textures, buildings, and tons more have changed a LOT with tech over the years. Why would I want to lug around the same digital Matrix trenchcoat and glasses from even the 2010s when newer stuff is much more fluid and better textured?
Sure, it could be fun to run around the Monster Hunter world, as Wario in my giant Mechwarrior, saving Zelda from 80's pixel Bowser, but those items are definitely going to show their age pretty quickly. I suppose you could argue that it's similar to "classic" video game markets, but why would anyone pay me any meaningful amount of money for something old, obsolete, and easily replaceable for free (as digital files are, especially 5+ year old ones)? At least the old games I can somewhat see as wanting to hold and use that old NES cartridge that will never be manufactured again, or get use out of that original Xbox you so lovingly restored, but a pixelated old trenchcoat? An image of Wario? If those things have any real value, the copyright holders will just re-release whatever digitally to cash in and kill any after-markets. Everything else will just be replaced - rapidly - by better things as tech advances.
It's one thing to not go down the baby aisle. It's another thing entirely to be upset by the store putting baby stuff all over the place, on every endcap, and at the register. The cashier also tries to upsell me into adding baby stuff onto my order. And on top of all that, that baby stuff is now harmful to the environment, could very well be stolen, and through purchasing, is also a quick and easy way to launder money so there are all sorts of shady people walking around the store buying diapers and butt paste that never really used to be there before. Sure...I don't have to buy the baby stuff, but I have a heck of a bad taste in my mouth now about buying my groceries at the same place.
I feel it's more like going into a restaurant and looking at all the receipts.
"Hey, look! I found a Discover. Isn't that extinct? What does this mean...CHK?"
"Must be cheesecake! Oooh, do you think it had cherries on top?"
"No, that's across the street. They don't have that here. Wait, I think this is from across the street. How'd it get here?"
"I brought my own receipts!"
All: "YAY!!!"
All I'm going to say you need to get on with the times. All you really need is a proton and antiproton injector and some ample space to clash them together, there miiiight be some small collateral in the neighborhood, but you'll get enough voltage without having to use any second hand retroware.
..agreed here as well.
...I've been equating iot to that.
...or get one of thes at your local Nukes Я Us
I don't even know what an NFT is (other than a digital image on the Internet, of which there are already 10 trillion.) Why would anyone want an NFT? What do they do? What are they good for? I looked at about a dozen "NFT for sale" websites. There's a billion of these NFTs already. About .000001% of the people who buy NFTs as an "investment" will make some money selling their NFT. And likewise, an artist has about as much chance of making money selling NFTs as they do winning an Academy Award.
OHHHH! I know! You need an NFT on your phone to prove you've been vaccinated against the Abercrombie varient, or they won't let you into the food court at the mall.
Check my previous post. That is a gaming NFT for a game called Nova Rally. The more you use the driver NFT. The more value it gains. When Otis was a rookie he is only worth around 2.23 usd. Yet when you build him up and get him to the next level. Which means you have to take 2 other of the same nft, and combined them into 1. Which then increase the value of Otis. now he is worth around 19 to 20 usd.
...and like Bitcoin, those who got involved early are the real financial "winners". There's a reason why new crypto currencies appeared as Bitcoin became almost impossible to acquire or financially or mine without a massive investment for the average Joe.
I can also see as more and more people become involved and mint new NFTs the market will become saturated and values will plateau, then sink.
No more differrent then anything else. It's the NFTs that have utililty will be the real winners in the NFT race.
You use it in a game? I've never seen a computer game. So I don't have the faintest idea what any of this means. Cryptocurrency is what you spend when you're in your crypt.
I seem to have read that for some reason these tiny Internet images use 5 billion megawatts of electricty . Like, why should anybody care about how much electricity they waste - there's going to be 7 billion electrctric cars sucking up the electricity soon. So what does some NFTs matter?
This whole things sounds to me like spending 5 million dollars on a rare Batman TV show gum card.
WHAT? never seen a video game? yet seen 3d cgi assests? I find that hard to believe. Video games have been out since the early 70's LOL! Are you a time travler from centuries ago?
I've never seen a video game. I haven't watched a TV show (other than the news) since 1990. I've seen about 5 movies in theatres in the last 30 years. I don't read fiction. I'm an artist. I create things - paintings, digital art, theatrical stage plays and films. I'm a creator, not a consumer. I use cgi assests as an aid in creating 2D art (which was the original purpose of Poser.)
Awesome. I never seen this before. Someone who is closed off from this crazy media world of movies, tv and games. I hope one day to see your work.
One of my paintings. It's $100,000. 100% handpainted in acrylic on synthetic paper; 26"x40". I make my living as an artist. I've also had a film I wrote and directed as a Selection at the Cannes Film Festival. I'm quoted by name in the New York Times Arts Section. I'm a legend in my own mind. (I removed the image of the painting now that you've seen it.)
Very cool. what film ? I really want to check it out. I'm a big film fan.
Oh, now, I can't give away my secret idetity. We're all equal here. The film didn't win an award anyway - but Faye Dunaway loved it. I'm going to list my painting as an NFT with a starting price of $69,000,000.00.
"Power to the players" is Gamestop's ad slogan, LOL.
If a game ends the NFTs related to it will be worthless, after all, if the game died that means it did not do very well and the interest in its NFTs can not possibly be very high. So trying to make a point that this NFT is yours forever just doesn't work. So that brings us back to what makes NFTs any different than what games can already do without them. Many games already allow users to create their own content and potentially sell that content for profit. No NFTs required.
Studies have concluded that the majority of game microtransactions, especially loot boxes, are in fact purchased by a minority of players called whales. A shockingly small minority at that. They are called whales for a reason, just getting a few whales to spend big money totally changes the revenue stream. Here is one such study.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306460321000368
This is an excerpt: "Secondary analysis of this self-report data confirmed that disproportionate revenue appears to be generated from high-level spenders: the top 5% of spenders (> $100/month) represent half of loot box revenue."
So half of all the money spent on loot boxes came from less than 5% of players. Numerous studies have posted similar findings. This 5% is not necessarily rich, either. But I will leave that aside, the data from these studies is openly available to the public.
Game companies may employee physchology techniques to best sell microtransactions and loot boxes to specific players who are more likely to buy. This is not speculation as fact, there are classes and seminars that teach the techniques to "turn players into payers" which are publically available. There are companies that specialize in handling this process for game companies, such as a company called Scientific Revenue. This is a video they use to advertise their services.
https://archive.org/details/vimeo-154271693
This next link from a siminar is particularly well known in certain circles.
So you have a situation where a small number of players greatly impact the direction that games take. That is not a good for gaming in any way. Most players genuinely do hate these things, and slowly over time the game industry is starting to choke on these design decisions. The Star Wars Battlefront 2 fiasco is one such situation that shows just how bad things can get. I do not think these things are sustainable long term, hell loot boxes are not even legal in some countries now (like Belgium), and more may ban them in coming years. Game companies that rely on loot boxes will need to drastically alter their plans if that happens. I can imagine quite a few game companies closing because of their over reliance on loot boxes instead of making actual good games.
BBC link covering Belgium banning loot boxes, and mentioning Battlefront 2 as being one of the tipping points toward that legislation. https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49674333
I can see this happening with NFTs. You can paint them however you like, but I believe NFTs are going to crash and burn in a few years time. Some may do fine, but many more will crash while chasing those whales. And the question has to be asked, if a company is devoting so much time to making NFTs and other monetization in their games...what about the game quality? Those games you talked about earlier, I learned more about their NFTs than the actual game. That just doesn't sound right to me.
And as I said, Valve has banned NFTs and crypto from its own store. Steam is the overwhelming leader in PC gaming, no other store comes even close (though Epic is trying). So no game with NFTs can be sold on the #1 PC platform. Then you add the strong negativity against NFTs, any game that actually includes them is destined to be a niche seller at best.
USA Today link covering Valve's NFT ban https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/10/steam-banning-nfts-cryptocurrency-games
Daz can try their very best to push NFTs going forward. I am sure they will not stop just because I said so. But I will not stop voicing my opinion about them, either. And I believe that NFTs are going to crash and burn here, too, in time. To me, it just feels like somebody is desparately trying to chase a shiny new thing. But often times when people try to chase after something shiny they stumble over the things that are sitting right in front of them because of how distracted they are. I feel like the effort that Daz is putting into NFTs could be better used towards something else, like a web forum upgrade. This forum constantly breaks. I get 502 errors pretty often, sometimes right in the middle of writing a post. In fact the one I posted the other day which is gone now was interrupted multiple times by 502 errors. Maybe that should be worked on instead of these NFTs? Just a thought.