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This is probably the worst March Madness I have seen since I started in 2005! I haven't spent any cash here since July 19/21 and that was only 19.00, have not even used my PC+ coupons, the price increases and less than desirable bundles have cured me of spending here and I spend my money elsewhere. When I signed up for PC+ it was said that introductory discounts would be 30%, why am I only seeing 20% now? That;s not what I agreed to when I purchased PC+, Daz changes the policy whenever they feel like it?? I won't be renewing in September when it expires unless they are giving it away free. The only thing I come here for now is to occasionally read the forums and pick up the weekly/monthly freebie. I was hoping MM would be better...NOT!! There is also the lack of many vendors leaving Daz and it makes me wonder why? It's sad....
March madness is history. But too many real problems in the world to be concerned with DAZ pricing.
what they're doing is trying to broaden the market more into gaming, avatars, NFT, etc. Old timers are along for the ride or not. New folk don't realize the past. 20% off is better than full price. But the prices have gone up too, so for us old timers, we see that 20% off is still more than what we used to pay full price .
You're saying spending more is good. How about $10/gallon gas? Maybe PA's should be charging $500/product?
Or perhaps revenue is falling short because Daz keeps turning out pretty white girls? How many variations of the same thing do we really need? Henry Ford is down the street cranking out Model T's and Daz keeps making new versions of buggy whips and charging more for them to boot. I've suggested many new ideas but it's always pretty white girls.
I would love to have a realistic 1950's kitchen. Perhaps I should try again and create a thread of products we end users have an actual need for. Maybe something will come of it, maybe we'll just get more pretty white girls.
yep. this real world stuff gets any worse and we will be hoarding our cash for food, not worrying about buying asnything from DAZ, thats for sure, if we can even afford to get online.
So true. And every event or holiday is just an excuse to churn out another iteration of the same old skimpware for the pretty white girls. Mardi Gras? Bikini with sequins. And now Lyanna "Assassin" bundle? Do we really need another high-heeled, latex, trashy porn costume?
In fairness to DAZ, other markets also seem to have a lot of pretty white girls and sequined bikinis to put them in.
Maybe that's just what people buy? (But do they buy them because that's what they want or because that's what there is?)
We come back to the question of whether people in this forum are really representative of demand. People who post here might be going "Please God, no more pretty white girls and sequined bikinis," but if it's really true that we're an unrepresentative tip-of-the-iceberg, DAZ's sales figures may be telling a different story.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that they are not making money from a 1950's kitchen scene.
I don't recall ever seeing that. What was stated was that DAZ+ (PC+ at the time) members would get 30% off DAZ originals and we are still getting that. Are you prehaps confusing that with 30% of new releases?
None-the-less the new initial discount change from 30% to 20% for even new releases that previously were 30% off is very disconcerting
The only madness I'm feeling is the default 20%.
Pretty dull really.
I was worried that March Madness would have a new product discount of 30% with two for 40% off, which would have been 10% less than last year. I never imagined they would half last years new product discounts from 40/50 to 20/30. I did buy two new products on the first day, but only because of a glitch that gave us another 30% off. Likely as not those will be the only new products I buy all month. If I get any older stuff remains to be seen.
DAZ marketing have plenty of clever guys working in it. so I assume this strategy is working for them. I guess there are enough people buying new stuff at the lower discounts that the loss of many longer term buyers is not a problem. I am just happy I got a lot of content when prices were more reasonable.
yep, go where the market is. Us old farts already have our toys. new guys have no idea of the past sales and pricing. They dont do forums either... social media sites . twitter, discord, etc
Hi @CharlieJudge
Yes you are correct, I was complaining in a hurry cause I had to get out the door lol but yes things have definitely changed here and I don't see the same value for my money as I used to and that is everywhere. Our price of fuel just shot up from 1.44 / litre to 1.59/ litre and is going up even more, groceries are a ridiculous price and interest rates shot up over night as well. there is chaos everywhere right now and I am sure it's the same for everyone. With that, my dollars need to go in other directions now so I am not spending on the higher prices here on a hobby I now spend little time on as I have to be at work all the time these days.
I’m guessing maybe they are bringing a lot of new people here through their Discord NFP channel who have no idea that these sales used to be much better and that Rendo or other stores even exist. They might not even check this forum at all and may be using the products in other software because any new user of DS would probably have to come here to figure out how to use it unless they are just using YouTube.
I didn’t even notice the grab bag category yesterday somehow. When items were $1.99 I’d scoop them up and spend like $100 a day on them. But at $4,99 I’m spending $15 today so DAZ loses out but I guess the PAs who’s items I get win. They’ll get $2.50 off each sale instead of $1.00 but I’m sure make a lot less sales so it will be interesting to find out which is the best price point.
Let's be honest, the last year or so the sales were insane. 80% off, two dollar sales left and right. That kinda stuff should happen once or twice a year. I'm not complaining; picked up a bunch of good stuff for great prices. But I'm sure it wasn't great for the PAs, and might be part of the reason so many has left. I'm not blaming DAZ for dialing back sales. It'll be a hard sale for old timers but new people should find the current sales reasonable.
My problem is with lack of variety and quality. I won’t buy another figure unless it’s incredibly remarkable because I have a bunch already, and loading a G8 figure already takes forever. A lot of the clothing that has came out recently has been disappointing, and I’m not just talking about the skimpware. If anything, the skimpware is usually higher quality than then regular clothing. DAZ shouldn’t be surprised if people don’t buy trousers that look like cardboard tubes. The most exciting thing I’ve bought lately were some rocks.
If DAZ is having fewer >80% sales I respect that, they are undermining their own prices after all. But it's going to take me a while to readjust my expectations.
I would like to hear some word from a few PA's. I personally doubt that the new Daz strategy will help them at all. I have spent more money in the first week of 2021 than I did so far in 2022. I have massive doubts that a) I am the only one reducing their spending, and b) this will not affect the PA's in any (negative) way.
I've always felt it better to sell 100 objects at a dollar then 5 at 10 dollars, but is that the case here? Maybe they're still selling 10 items or even more at $10. If that the case, the sales will be less and less frequent and for smaller discount when they do happen. The whole key to longevity is to constantly find new customers, new markets, and that takes a different carrot sometimes.
My neighbor had their house listed for $169,000 a few years ago. It was very slow hardly anyone looking at . The realtor raised the price to $189,000 and it sold 3 days after the 1st open house with the higher price. Yeah, real estate different, sort of, but perhaps higher pricing is indicative of preceived more professional or higher quality.
The problem with the 100 for 1 dollar as opposed to 5 for 10, is that you have an extra 95 people that could be using up all your time for support. Of course DAZ is supposed to protect the PAs from that, but they still have to pay people to answer all those tickets, and so they might prefer the 5 people to the 100.
People will naturally buy more on impulse than anything else. This is why you see all that junk at the checkout lane in any store you go to. Even electronics stores like Best Buy have candy and snacks in their checkout lanes, things that don't even make any sense at all for an electronics store but that works for them.
When the discounts on items go down, this makes people think harder about what they are going to buy. As a seller, you do not want the customer to think about what they are buying too much, because that lowers the chances of them buying it in the first place.
Like I said in my case, I would drop $20-30 easily on a day with $2 and $3 items. The deals were just too hard to pass on, and at that price I do not judge the items as harshly, either. I still do a quick look at threads about products using the Deals Addon, but I am more forgiving.
Today, I look at the $5 items and see nothing that I am willing to drop $5 on. Yesterday I bought 2, so I spent $10. BTW this is the first time I bought something in 2022, so it has been several months. $10 all year.
Which number is higher?
These are digital goods. There is no necessity to discuss demand. There is no finite resource being used up to create each item. For many years now Daz3d has created this steep discount mentality in their customers. To suddenly pull back on that now just doesn't work. It doesn't make any of the customers happy, and I will wager the sales results are going to be less than MM 2021 if what we have seen so far is any indication. And I don't see how that helps many PAs, either. You might get a higher margin on $5 items, but a lower sales volume would logically counter that.
The other losers are any new customers. People who just recently discovered Daz will not get much of a chance to build a library of content when items are more than double the price they could have been. IMO this should be about art, too, and it is always good when these markets can expand.
And who cares if somebody buys up a ton of content they don't use? Daz (and PAs) still get that money.
I always like to compare the concept to Steam. Steam is famous for huge sales, so much so that they have been memed for years. It is also quite common for gamers to joke about their huge backlog of games that they bought on sale but still have yet to play. This speaks volumes about the power of impulse sales tactics. I have allowed myself to do that, too. I have over 600 games in my Steam library, and there are a good number I have not played yet.
This is nothing new, you can find numerous books and research on the art of designing a good impulse sale.
Ultimately we shall see how things go. Obviously Daz and PAs will have the data to determine if the sale was a success. Some may do OK because they are so well established. But I can see some of the lesser known PAs having some trouble, because they might be the ones who benefit most from impulse buyers.
There's probably any number of valid reasons to raise prices and drop discounts, but the present day is really the absolute worst time to do it if you're not in the direst straits. Everyday prices are skyrocketing and people worried half to death, and there goes their one fun little hobby also, slowly drifting out of their range. Doesn't make the remotest sense to me. Also, I'm not seeing Rosity doing it. Are you?
First of all, there's no need to PM me saying the same thing you said in this thread just because I didn't respond immediately. I'm more than willing to have a discussion here in the forums - I'm just working, too.
I'm saying that there is not infinite demand such that razor thin margins can be made up for with volume. I'm suggesting that maybe DAZ and PAs splitting $1.99 per sale all the time isn't sustainable because it might actually hurt future sales (either because people are likely to already have something similar in their libraries, or they don't want to spend more than $1.99 for anything). I'm saying that the value of our existing libraries is enhanced if DAZ continues updating DS and selling more assets. I'm saying that I want PAs to stick around and continue creating.
- Greg
Ultimately, it seems that the DAZ sales and marketing people are having one of those periodic bouts marketing people have of "It isn't broken, but let's try to fix it anyway-itis," having forgotten that the acronym DAZ has practically been rebranded to stand for Drop All Zhorts after years of using slashed prices and discounted/free product tie-ins as the central pillar of almost all new and catalog product promotions. (Which is at least better than Dachsuands and Zuchinni, but let's not go there...) I'm really surprised that the company isn't making so much money with NFTs that they wouldn't feel compelled to play this kind of games with the frequent buyers, ;) but I can also see how sales figures for the last two years may have been all over the board when one considers the number of users on reduced household incomes versus how many others are suddenly willing to pay extra for instant gratification of something they can do without leaving their fortified homes, on top of Renderosity bringing Poser back from the brink, and the push to get people to side-grade to Genesis 8.1, which I note hasn't received the usual kind of advertising about being the most sucessful 3D figure yet, and follows up an extended period during which the users had time to became more invested in the non-pointy G8 line than in any figure system since V4.
I’m really curious how the low discounts are affecting PAs. I’m assuming they can choose to be in Fast Grab, Grab Bag, PC for a day, etc... sales so if they participate more in those sales, it shows higher discounts equal more money. Also they can make some products DAZ Originals and get paid upfront and get no commission but I’m not sure how they choose how much DAZ pays them.
I was a PA briefly with one product right before Genesis came out and I was stupid, I didn’t want to learn DS which was necessary for Genesis then and wanted to stick to Poser. I had one pose product for Sadie, a not very popular character, let DAZ do their thing and made a surprisingly decent amount of money from it. It did mostly come from the early sales but Sadie really became obsolete as soon as Genesis came out. I had a choice to make it a DAZ Original when I submitted and was asked how much I wanted to sell it for and had no idea what to charge so just made it a PA item.
PAs with big back catalogs I think are doing much better financially than most people think. A PA with stores here and on Rendo once told me they bought a big house from the money they made within just a few years. But they are VERY prolific, sometimes teaming up with other PAs. But there are a lot more PAs now and buyers may be saturated with product. That was about four or five years ago when I was told that. But remember, they are getting passive income, often making money on products they created 10 years ago or more. Products older than a year should have higher discounts IMO. I’m fine with waiting.
Do we know that the change in discounts isn't something that PAs wanted?
- Greg
..I've questioned that for a while now. Unless you have the deep pockets to drop 200$ - 300$ or more in the cart, it's diminishing returns . Crikey, the last real worthwhile bundle I bought when it was a new release was the Young Teens 5 one. and that was over 8 years ago.
Waiting for the forthcoming PC...err...Daz+ sale as at least you can use Daz+ items to unlock special offers and discounts.
Again, we shall see when this sale is over whether or not they have more money in their pockets from this move. That will be the final judgement on if the strategy works or not. I rather doubt that Daz or any PA will openly state it either way, but we will know by how the following sales are conducted.
I get that things have gone up some. But the hikes have gone up all across the board in a very short period of time. Bundles cost more and offer less content. Initial sales of 30% are often 20% now. PC+ items have crept up in price. Discounts are not as steep. Clothing outfits are now being split into separate products which are sold as a bundle. That season pass nonsense was ridiculous, too.
These things also lead customers to question what is next.
It is not just one thing. If Daz did just one of those things it wouldn't be so bad, and while some would gripe I also think many would understand, too. But the prices and value on offer have changed in every aspect of the store. And that is just too much. This is already a difficult and expensive hobby/work for most of the people who do it. Just owning a computer that is capable of handling Daz Studio and rendering its products in Iray is quite a feat itself. This threatens to push people away from Daz to pursue other things instead. In particular, the new people just starting out are the ones most likely to quit. You want to keep new people, because that is the only way you grow the customer base and your business. Not just charging your existing customers more.
...yeah, really rough when you don't have the skill and aptitude to model your own. At least I can create my own custom characters, it's just finding something reasonable looking for them to wear that's a pain.
...part of the reason I have just a few G8 characters as I went for the more "unique" ones that never came out for G3. Don't need another Vicky, Mike, Aiko, Gianni, Josie, etc..
...about the only "March Madness" that I'm excited about right now is the upcoming college tournament as my Big Ten Champion Wisconsin Badgers are projected a the #3 Seed in the "Big Dance". They also are the #1 seed in the Big Ten conference tourney which starts next week.
I remember one year when Utah was in it and for each time they advanced to the next round, Daz gave everyone a coupon.